GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Washington at Buffalo 12-29-13 at 5:00 PM EST

[darksabre]

 

Even if you're only looking at thier Buffalo careers, it's not close. Hasek got his SC in Detroit. Everything else was in Buffalo.

 

At his best, Hasek had 13 shutouts in one season. Miller has 11 shutouts in his best two seasons combined.

 

And Hasek never had anything like the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 teams in front of him. Hasek was pre-salary cap when the Sabres couldn't afford to pay/keep anyone and the plan was to grind out 2-1 wins every night. A four year contract for Mike Peca was too much for Buffalo back then.

 

Hasek played for Buffalo in the era of low scoring defense first hockey league wide. It's no surprise he had more shutouts. I don't buy the notion that Miller played with better teams. Each goalie had two seasons where the teams in front of them were arguably really good. The rest...not so much.

 

I also don't like the idea of blaming Miller for the team collapses in 06 and 07. 06 was a fluke, 07 was fate (that team was overrated).

 

I'd like to nominate Hasek for being a baby in the 98 playoffs as well. He threw that season away with his groin injury scam. Nice guy.

 

 

[Iron Crotch]

Strongly disagree, he has already come out and said (all post Regier) that he needs to see that they are building for now and not later, he has heard the talk before but in order for him to want to stay he needs to see it. If they are not going to be a playoff team next year and have not shown they want to win now, he is gone, and its gonna be tough to show him that before the deadline unless they start making moves now.

 

Not disagreeing in any way, but when did Miller say this? To whom? (I think I missed it)

[darksabre]

Robviously,

 

With all due respect d4rk's point was to only compare the two best goalies in the history of the Sabres on the grounds that Miller bleeds blue and gold, Hasek didn't. Not wins / loses and trophy counts.

 

IMO, there is no counter argument to d4rk's original statement.

 

Yup. It's about who is the most deserving of the Sabre for life label. I think Miller is more Buffalo than Hasek.

[ubkev]

 

Hasek: 6 All-Star Games, 6 Vezina Trophies, 2 Hart Trophies, 1 Stanley Cup Championship, 1 Olympic Gold Medal

 

Miller: 1 All-Star Game, 1 Vezina Trophy, 1 Olympic Silver Medal, 1 Presidents Trophy

 

Miller is one of the all-time Sabres, but this isn't close.

 

Hasek has 2 cups

 

[apuszczalowski]

Not disagreeing in any way, but when did Miller say this? To whom? (I think I missed it)

He was asked a little while after the change was made (when Nolan made the comment about wanting them to re-sign Miller and continue to build around him). I believe they asked him if dumping Regier and Rolston changed his opinion on if he would re-sign or want out and his response was that basically he wanted to see what their plans were, he has heard the talk before and is done with the talk, he wants to see it.

 

Hasek has 2 cups

With the way he was able to flex and stretch, I didn't think he needed any cups..........

[ubkev]

 

With the way he was able to flex and stretch, I didn't think he needed any cups..........

 

Zing!

[That Aud Smell]

I have it on good authority that a half-dozen of them got completely plastered at Trattoria Aroma on Saturday night because "it's only the Sabres." That remark actually was made to the bartender.

 

The one in the city, or in Williamsville?

 

In either case, that's a weird choice for members of a visiting team.

 

+++

 

I read this, and was all like :blink:

 

He's already surpassed Hasek in my opinion. I loved Hasek, but he was never a team guy. He wanted to win for himself. I think Miller is all team.

 

Then I read these and was all like :thumbsup:

 

Hasek: 6 All-Star Games, 6 Vezina Trophies, 2 Hart Trophies, 1 Stanley Cup Championship, 1 Olympic Gold Medal

 

Miller: 1 All-Star Game, 1 Vezina Trophy, 1 Olympic Silver Medal, 1 Presidents Trophy

 

Miller is one of the all-time Sabres, but this isn't close.

Correct.

 

But then I read this and was again like :blink:

 

I'm arguing that he's the best Sabres goalie.

 

But then NS came in and got me back to :thumbsup:

 

Robviously,

 

With all due respect d4rk's point was to only compare the two best goalies in the history of the Sabres on the grounds that Miller bleeds blue and gold, Hasek didn't. Not wins / loses and trophy counts.

 

IMO, there is no counter argument to d4rk's original statement.

 

Then finally, I got to this and was back to :blink:

 

Hasek played for Buffalo in the era of low scoring defense first hockey league wide. It's no surprise he had more shutouts. I don't buy the notion that Miller played with better teams. Each goalie had two seasons where the teams in front of them were arguably really good. The rest...not so much.

 

Hasek is not only the greatest goalie the Sabres have ever had, he's the greatest hockey player they've ever had.

 

The idea that Miller equals or surpasses Hasek is one that verges on the laughable for me.

 

Miller's a very good, maybe even great, goalie who's shown he's capable of streaks of below-average play and elite play -- the latter seem to coincide neatly with the imminence of the Olympics, for whatever reason.

[darksabre]

 

 

Hasek is not only the greatest goalie the Sabres have ever had, he's the greatest hockey player they've ever had.

 

The idea that Miller equals or surpasses Hasek is one that verges on the laughable for me.

 

Miller's a very good, maybe even great, goalie who's shown he's capable of streaks of below-average play and elite play -- the latter seem to coincide neatly with the imminence of the Olympics, for whatever reason.

 

Again, I like Hasek...mostly. He was one of the most talented goalies to ever play the game. I think Roy was better. But I have issues with some of the crap he pulled during his time here. I don't feel comfortable placing him in an ivory tower. Is he really better than Perreault? Mogilny? Was he really that much more important to the Sabres than Don Edwards was?

 

I get the feeling some people here think he could walk on water that wasn't frozen.

[Robviously]

Hasek played for Buffalo in the era of low scoring defense first hockey league wide. It's no surprise he had more shutouts. I don't buy the notion that Miller played with better teams. Each goalie had two seasons where the teams in front of them were arguably really good. The rest...not so much.

 

I also don't like the idea of blaming Miller for the team collapses in 06 and 07. 06 was a fluke, 07 was fate (that team was overrated).

 

I'd like to nominate Hasek for being a baby in the 98 playoffs as well. He threw that season away with his groin injury scam. Nice guy.

Nominate him for whatever you want, he's still the best Sabre goalie of all time (not close) and arguably the best Sabre of all-time. He was the best player in the world at his position for a 10 year span.

[darksabre]

Did the Sabres play against the Caps last night?

 

Dominik Hasek will the Sabres to victory, duh. Greatest goalie ever.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Dominik Hasek will the Sabres to victory, duh. Greatest goalie ever.

 

Damn!!

 

Quoted before I deleted.

 

My apologies for my post to discourage a good discussion, even though, IMO, the original point was missed by some.

[FolignosJock]

Dominik Hasek will the Sabres to victory, duh. Greatest goalie ever.

 

Hasek makes 50 saves last night and scores the Game Winner!

[spndnchz]

Damn!!

 

Quoted before I deleted.

 

My apologies for my post to discourage a good discussion, even though, IMO, the original point was missed by some.

 

The Sabres actually played in the afternoon, so, no, they didn't play, last night.

 

(extra commas for PA)

[apuszczalowski]

Again, I like Hasek...mostly. He was one of the most talented goalies to ever play the game. I think Roy was better. But I have issues with some of the crap he pulled during his time here. I don't feel comfortable placing him in an ivory tower. Is he really better than Perreault? Mogilny? Was he really that much more important to the Sabres than Don Edwards was?

 

I get the feeling some people here think he could walk on water that wasn't frozen.

Kinda funny that you would be down on Dom for stuff like the "Groin incident of '98", yet be high on a guy like Roy, who pulled himself from a game, and then demanded he be traded on his way off the ice, they seem kind of similar.

 

I think if Hasek had played as a #1 goalie the same amount of time as Roy, Hasek would have better numbers. Roy was good, but I think some of his accomplishments came because he played on some better teams, while Hasek was mostly a "one man show".

 

As for the Miller and Hasek debate, Hasek is the top, no doubts, but Miller is probably the closest second to him when it comes to best Sabres goalies

[darksabre]

Kinda funny that you would be down on Dom for stuff like the "Groin incident of '98", yet be high on a guy like Roy, who pulled himself from a game, and then demanded he be traded on his way off the ice, they seem kind of similar.

 

I think if Hasek had played as a #1 goalie the same amount of time as Roy, Hasek would have better numbers. Roy was good, but I think some of his accomplishments came because he played on some better teams, while Hasek was mostly a "one man show".

 

As for the Miller and Hasek debate, Hasek is the top, no doubts, but Miller is probably the closest second to him when it comes to best Sabres goalies

 

Roy also pretty much invented modern goaltending, so he had an advantage over many goalies purely on his technique. Hasek was the last great flopper.

 

Boy that came out wrong. :blink:

[spndnchz]

Roy also pretty much invented modern goaltending, so he had an advantage over many goalies purely on his technique. Hasek was the last great flopper.

 

Boy that came out wrong. :blink:

 

Did you mean "fluffer"?

[JJFIVEOH]

The criticism towards the anti-Miller crowd is unwarranted. I don't know if I speak for all of them, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of us don't think he's a bad goaltender, nor do we think he shouldn't get credit for doing well this year. I've given him credit several times this year when he deserves it.

 

Most miss the point when the criticism is directed towards Miller. Is he a great goaltender? Sure. Can he be a great goaltender? Only when he feels like it. The criticism towards Miller is in response to his lackluster performances in off-Olympic years. The criticism also lies in his attitude in the past; up until the day Pegula compared him to his daughter, he never took blame for a loss and simply put the blame on his team. Does everybody really think it's a coincidence that he's standing on his head this year while behaving himself towards the media.......... and the last time he did the same thing was four years ago? It's also a contract year. Chances of him coming close to repeating this next year are slim to none.

 

If you're going to criticize the people that aren't the biggest Miller fans, at least direct the criticism where it belongs.

[darksabre]

The criticism towards the anti-Miller crowd is unwarranted. I don't know if I speak for all of them, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of us don't think he's a bad goaltender, nor do we think he shouldn't get credit for doing well this year. I've given him credit several times this year when he deserves it.

 

Most miss the point when the criticism is directed towards Miller. Is he a great goaltender? Sure. Can he be a great goaltender? Only when he feels like it. The criticism towards Miller is in response to his lackluster performances in off-Olympic years. The criticism also lies in his attitude in the past; up until the day Pegula compared him to his daughter, he never took blame for a loss and simply put the blame on his team. Does everybody really think it's a coincidence that he's standing on his head this year while behaving himself towards the media.......... and the last time he did the same thing was four years ago? It's also a contract year. Chances of him coming close to repeating this next year are slim to none.

 

If you're going to criticize the people that aren't the biggest Miller fans, at least direct the criticism where it belongs.

 

This is total BS right here.

 

 

You do realize the teams in front of his have been terrible right? Like, awful?

[spndnchz]

BTW, Miller, Quick and Howard make the Olympic Team.

 

Miller and Quick the top two.

[26CornerBlitz]

He coughed up the lead. A real elite goaltender would have pitched the shutout, but as usual Mr. Softee choked away the regulation win!

 

How'd I do?

 

Bravo! Bravo! :clapping:

[JJFIVEOH]

This is total BS right here.

 

 

You do realize the teams in front of his have been terrible right? Like, awful?

 

This year totally disproves your point. His statistical performance does not correlate with the quality of the team in front of him over the course of his career. The timing of the Olympics does, however.

 

I like that comeback though, it never gets old. You sound like Miller, if they're bad it's somebody elses fault. If they win, he gets the credit. ;)

[Campy]

No WGR streaming?

 

It's a moot point now, but maybe something to keep in mind for next year: GR will put either the Bills or Sabres coverage on their sister station, WBEN, when both are playing at the same time.

[JJFIVEOH]

It's a moot point now, but maybe something to keep in mind for next year: GR will put either the Bills or Sabres coverage on their sister station, WBEN, when both are playing at the same time.

 

Noted, thank you.

[apuszczalowski]

This is total BS right here.

 

 

You do realize the teams in front of his have been terrible right? Like, awful?

You can also throw in the popular "He never took blame for losses/always threw his teammates under the bus" as additional BS that likes to get used around here too.....

[That Aud Smell]

Again, I like Hasek...mostly. He was one of the most talented goalies to ever play the game. I think Roy was better. But I have issues with some of the crap he pulled during his time here. I don't feel comfortable placing him in an ivory tower. Is he really better than Perreault? Mogilny? Was he really that much more important to the Sabres than Don Edwards was?

 

I get the feeling some people here think he could walk on water that wasn't frozen.

 

I think we're applying different standards. For me, "like" has nothing to do with it. Dom was/is mostly an unlikable, unpleasant freak of a man, at least as far as my mostly public perception goes.

 

When I'm evaluating his excellence, I'm not thinking of the off-the-ice stuff (forcing a trade out of here, how he dealt with injuries, the way he skated off the ice when he let in that shot against Pittsburgh as though he'd been launched from a cannon, etc.). He was a complete and total head case who didn't seem like much of a teammate at all.

 

And even at that, I will call him the greatest Sabre. Not my favorite. But the greatest.

 

Nominate him for whatever you want, he's still the best Sabre goalie of all time (not close) and arguably the best Sabre of all-time. He was the best player in the world at his position for a 10 year span.

 

Seriously.