GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Ottawa at Buffalo 12-10-13 at 7:00 PM EST

[nucci]

Not to mention the fact that when there were ties, when the game was tied in the 3rd period it usually turned into a boring, low-risk affair in which both teams played not to lose the point.

 

The shootout ain't perfect. But the tie, IMHO, is not an acceptable outcome. There's a reason no other league has it.

Teams still play not to lose the point. Haven't you seen games where teams are playing to get in to OT? Same as when there we ties.

[Iron Crotch]

I think you're selling his offensive ability short. I think he can get low-mid 50s if he hits his ceiling. Still not franchise player material, but more solidly in that second line level than a 2-3 tweener.

 

In general, I think we tend to underestimate just how much more low scoring NHL games are these days. 60 points puts you around top-50 in the league in scoring. Same with 25 goals. The days of multiple guys putting up 100 point seasons look to be gone... Malkin was the only guy to go over 100 point in the last full season. If Gus can score 20 and 50, play solid defense and be a physical force, that's 1st/2nd line numbers in today's NHL.

[TrueBlueGED]

In general, I think we tend to underestimate just how much more low scoring NHL games are these days. 60 points puts you around top-50 in the league in scoring. Same with 25 goals. The days of multiple guys putting up 100 point seasons look to be gone... Malkin was the only guy to go over 100 point in the last full season. If Gus can score 20 and 50, play solid defense and be a physical force, that's 1st/2nd line numbers in today's NHL.

 

This is true. Also depends on if he's a winger or center long term. Nolan may see him as a winger, but the next coach may disagree. If he's ultimately on the wing, then that 40 point range will put him solidly on the second line. But if he's at center, I'd like to see a bit more production.

[SwampD]

Not to mention the fact that when there were ties, when the game was tied in the 3rd period it usually turned into a boring, low-risk affair in which both teams played not to lose the point.

 

The shootout ain't perfect. But the tie, IMHO, is not an acceptable outcome. There's a reason no other league has it.

I'm guessing you didn't see last night's game. That's exactly what happened even with the SO.

 

FTR, I got no extra joy from last night having won the SO than I would have gotten with a tie. I think I even wrote that upthread last night.

[nfreeman]

Teams still play not to lose the point. Haven't you seen games where teams are playing to get in to OT? Same as when there we ties.

I'm guessing you didn't see last night's game. That's exactly what happened even with the SO.

 

FTR, I got no extra joy from last night having won the SO than I would have gotten with a tie. I think I even wrote that upthread last night.

 

You're both right, and this is what happened in the last 7-8 minutes of the 3rd period last night. However, I think (i) this happens much less frequently now than it did during the tie era, (ii) when it happens now, it usually is only for the last few minutes of the 3rd period -- not most of the 3rd as was the case in the tie era, (iii) when it happens now, it is followed by 5 minutes of fast-paced OT, which is a much better ending than the snoozer 3rd periods of yore and (iv) I'm pretty confident the players and most of the fans in attendance enjoyed the SO win more than they would've enjoyed a tie.

[inkman]

I think you're selling his offensive ability short. I think he can get low-mid 50s if he hits his ceiling. Still not franchise player material, but more solidly in that second line level than a 2-3 tweener.

I am. Probably trying to counter balance all the hype. He's great, I love him. I think he'll be a more durable Rod Brindamour. I just don't want people thinking he's first line material because his hands are still questionable.

[SwampD]

You're both right, and this is what happened in the last 7-8 minutes of the 3rd period last night. However, I think (i) this happens much less frequently now than it did during the tie era, (ii) when it happens now, it usually is only for the last few minutes of the 3rd period -- not most of the 3rd as was the case in the tie era, (iii) when it happens now, it is followed by 5 minutes of fast-paced OT, which is a much better ending than the snoozer 3rd periods of yore and (iv) I'm pretty confident the players and most of the fans in attendance enjoyed the SO win more than they would've enjoyed a tie.

I wonder which the fans there would have prefered had we lost.

[darksabre]

I wonder which the fans there would have prefered had we lost.

 

Dstebb.

[Derrico]

 

 

Dstebb.

 

Sadly you can add me to that list also. If we came out and dominated I want a win but these shoot outs do nothing for me and hurt tank nation.

[SwampD]

Dstebb.

I don't understand how you could have missed my point, given the excellent crafting of that sentence.

 

What I meant to say was that I bet fans would have prefered a tie over us losing last night. It works both ways.

[nucci]

You're both right, and this is what happened in the last 7-8 minutes of the 3rd period last night. However, I think (i) this happens much less frequently now than it did during the tie era, (ii) when it happens now, it usually is only for the last few minutes of the 3rd period -- not most of the 3rd as was the case in the tie era, (iii) when it happens now, it is followed by 5 minutes of fast-paced OT, which is a much better ending than the snoozer 3rd periods of yore and (iv) I'm pretty confident the players and most of the fans in attendance enjoyed the SO win more than they would've enjoyed a tie.

Agree, also the tie era there were no penalties called in the 3rd period of games so tackling, holding, hooking......etc also made the game boring.

[Iron Crotch]

I am. Probably trying to counter balance all the hype. He's great, I love him. I think he'll be a more durable Rod Brindamour. I just don't want people thinking he's first line material because his hands are still questionable.

 

Gus took a shoulder to the head at full speed (which drew an NHL hearing) and didn't even fall down! He is a ###### bull! :P

[Derrico]

 

 

Gus took a shoulder to the head at full speed (which drew an NHL hearing) and didn't even fall down! He is a ###### bull! :P

 

Ya I was worried about a concussion after that shot. Id hate to see him have two with twelve months.

[darksabre]

I don't understand how you could have missed my point, given the excellent crafting of that sentence.

 

What I meant to say was that I bet fans would have prefered a tie over us losing last night. It works both ways.

 

Please don't try crafting beer then :P

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

I am. Probably trying to counter balance all the hype. He's great, I love him. I think he'll be a more durable Rod Brindamour. I just don't want people thinking he's first line material because his hands are still questionable.

 

He's just an all out grinder with hockey IQ. 2 of his 3 goals were just chucking a puck unexpectedly at the goalie. The 3rd was a highlight reel.

 

He still gets knocked off his feet on the fly all the time.

 

Bottom line is he is a poster boy for what the "New Core" should be moving forward if you are serious about having a presence come playoff time. I don't care if he averages 12 goals a year for his career...he is going to have a 15 year career, and be a pit bull in the post season, be it on a 2nd or 3rd line. When they drafted him, I actually gave Darcy an A+ because this guy is a can't miss. Ceilings be damned....we still have a few years to go to get a few playmakers in here before it is a serious playoff run on the table, but at this point, I build around the attitude that Girgensons, Zadarov, McNabb, Foligno bring...even if it is low-mid ceiling on the offensive side. I will go to the grave saying B/C level skill with A level manhood and work ethic will beat A/B level skill with C level work ethic when it really matters.

[Drunkard]

I don't understand how you could have missed my point, given the excellent crafting of that sentence.

 

What I meant to say was that I bet fans would have prefered a tie over us losing last night. It works both ways.

 

Sure with the benefit of knowing the future ending in a tie would be better than losing in a shootout. However if it hasn't happened yet and you don't know the outcome the majority of the fans would prefer it to go to a shootout rather than ending in a tie, especially since a tie only nets you 1 point and you'd get that in a shootout loss anyway. Why take away the chance at the 2nd point and the opportunity to bring an actual conclusion to the game?

[dudacek]

The best solution is three for a regulation win, two for overtime/shoot out win, one for OT/shoot out loss.

[26CornerBlitz]

Watch the shootout between the Ottawa Senators and the Buffalo Sabres on 12/10/13

[Jsixspd]

Myers looked like an all-star last night. Positioned great, skated great, made plays in all areas, battled hard, helped sustain offensive pressure and possession, blocked shots, had good vision and decision making with regard to his puck movement, created good scoring chances with good shot selection at the point.

 

I really hope he can lock it in.

 

Zemgus is playing like a bull in a china shop below the face off dots in the offensive zone. He picks the puck up off the boards, often after a long battle, and nothing stops him from driving to the net. He uses his tools, wills his way to a good scoring position, and gets the puck on net.

 

Myers looked pretty good to me too- he's actually trying now, something he wasn't doing when Ruffton was coach. I was at first mad about the goal gave up when he was on the ice but.... as Robie pointed out during the period intermission, Tyler was trying to get something going, and the rest of the line let him down.

 

Last night was a fun game to watch - first time I've enjoyed a Sabres game in a long time! It was easy to get mad at the zebras and their nonsense - I wondered if they were going hard on the Sabres cause one of the poor dears got knocked down? Lots of non-calls on the Senators too.

[TrueBlueGED]

He's just an all out grinder with hockey IQ. 2 of his 3 goals were just chucking a puck unexpectedly at the goalie. The 3rd was a highlight reel.

 

He still gets knocked off his feet on the fly all the time.

 

Bottom line is he is a poster boy for what the "New Core" should be moving forward if you are serious about having a presence come playoff time. I don't care if he averages 12 goals a year for his career...he is going to have a 15 year career, and be a pit bull in the post season, be it on a 2nd or 3rd line. When they drafted him, I actually gave Darcy an A+ because this guy is a can't miss. Ceilings be damned....we still have a few years to go to get a few playmakers in here before it is a serious playoff run on the table, but at this point, I build around the attitude that Girgensons, Zadarov, McNabb, Foligno bring...even if it is low-mid ceiling on the offensive side. I will go to the grave saying B/C level skill with A level manhood and work ethic will beat A/B level skill with C level work ethic when it really matters.

 

You're not winning a championship without A level skill, regardless of how hard your collection of B/C talent works.

[Campy]

You're not winning a championship without A level skill, regardless of how hard your collection of B/C talent works.

 

I'm one who believes a hard working decent player will win most battles against an exceptionally talented player who does not work as hard.

[LGR4GM]

You need talent and we don't suck because we lack effort we because we lack talent. Drew Stafford can do whatever he wants but he is still not that talented offensively. We need more talent.

[nfreeman]

You're not winning a championship without A level skill, regardless of how hard your collection of B/C talent works.

 

True, but there are many levels between "Sabres under Rolston" and "Cup winner."

[darksabre]

 

 

I'm one who believes a hard working decent player will win most battles against an exceptionally talented player who does not work as hard.

 

What about the talented players who work hard? You know, all the ones who keep winning Cups?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

What about the talented players who work hard? You know, all the ones who keep winning Cups?

 

You are always alive with decent talent that works hard and has grit. Boston is the prime example. Lucic, Krejci, Marchand, Siedenberg....those guys are the engine. All B/C level talent but will bust their hump and drive you nuts. All those Detroit teams had guys like McCarty, Draper, LaPointe...and it helps when the talent has jam like Chara, or Chelios and Shannahan.

 

Girgensons/Foligno/Ott/Zadarov/McNabb is going to win you a Cup before Grigerenko/Hodgson/Ennis/Ehrhoff/Ristolainen will.

 

Now....those last 5 certainly have a place on a Cup team....you just need to find 2 or 3 guys with the pure talent of the 2nd group, and the mindset of the 1st group. Group A CAN succeed without Group B in the playoffs. Group B CANNOT succeed without Group A.