Nolan: "Roster moves coming soon"

[Hawerchuk]

Can't they work a deal to trade Grigs rights to a different Q team (because of the 2 roster euro limit thing) and then get him up to the AHL Amerks? I'm mean the guy needs to be at the A right now and nowhere else. Or am I missing some technicality on the whole Grigs thing?

[darksabre]

So that is why the veterans have been so bad - they were just mad at the rookies. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

I bring it up and no one ever answers. So what is the answer why they don't get their flu shots?

 

Because flu shots are essentially a coin flip?

[apuszczalowski]

for my own part, i did not like the process of feeding the young top prospects to the wolves -- potentially killing their confidence, indoctrinating them into a bad environment, etc.

 

i also read today (from hoppe) that the veterans on the team did not approve of the young guys being given spots without having earned them.

 

finally, i see that the "why don't pro athletes get flu shots" posts have returned. :wallbash:

I said many times during this last DR Rebuild that throwing the rookies to the wolves and forcing them into the lineup isn't going to make them develop into better players. I have always been on the side of the young players should be developing in the minors until they are beating out the guys in front of them. Theres nothing wrong with a young kid dominating a minor league system, and am amzed that some believe this is going to have more of a negative affect on a player then throwing them into situations they are not ready for and getting beaten regularly. Put them in the minors, give them big minutes there and when they show they are ready to get tot he next level, move them up.

 

I know that some situations are tough, like Grigs, because he has limited options and he has shown in juniors that he should be moved up to the next level, but right now he can't move up to the next level (AHL) and skipping him ahead even higher to the NHL level is too big of a jump. But these kids are Young, spending another year in Juniors isn't going to destroy him. Send him down with strict instructions to work on certain aspects of his game so that maybe he will improve enough that his stay at the next level will be even shorter

[MattPie]

Can't they work a deal to trade Grigs rights to a different Q team (because of the 2 roster euro limit thing) and then get him up to the AHL Amerks? I'm mean the guy needs to be at the A right now and nowhere else. Or am I missing some technicality on the whole Grigs thing?

 

Unless his junior team declines his rights, he cannot play in the AHL (other than this conditioning stint he's currently on). I haven't seen it mentioned, can he only be traded within the Q or could he go to another junior league (that's more defensive/physical)?

[biodork]

I said many times during this last DR Rebuild that throwing the rookies to the wolves and forcing them into the lineup isn't going to make them develop into better players. I have always been on the side of the young players should be developing in the minors until they are beating out the guys in front of them. Theres nothing wrong with a young kid dominating a minor league system, and am amzed that some believe this is going to have more of a negative affect on a player then throwing them into situations they are not ready for and getting beaten regularly. Put them in the minors, give them big minutes there and when they show they are ready to get tot he next level, move them up.

 

I know that some situations are tough, like Grigs, because he has limited options and he has shown in juniors that he should be moved up to the next level, but right now he can't move up to the next level (AHL) and skipping him ahead even higher to the NHL level is too big of a jump. But these kids are Young, spending another year in Juniors isn't going to destroy him. Send him down with strict instructions to work on certain aspects of his game so that maybe he will improve enough that his stay at the next level will be even shorter

 

I think my own concern about Grigs is that he's already being criticized for not working hard enough, and playing in a league where he's far more talented than the majority of his opponents might unintentionally reinforce laziness since he doesn't have to try as hard to be great there. I really hope the scenario others have suggested about an exception to allow him time in Rochester (more than the 2 week conditioning stint) plays out.

[apuszczalowski]

Can't they work a deal to trade Grigs rights to a different Q team (because of the 2 roster euro limit thing) and then get him up to the AHL Amerks? I'm mean the guy needs to be at the A right now and nowhere else. Or am I missing some technicality on the whole Grigs thing?

i believe they can traded him or one of the imports on the team to another team in the Q, or another one of the Canadian leagues, but either way, the only way he can be in the AHL is the 2 week conditioning stint he is going on now.

[Hawerchuk]

 

 

Unless his junior team declines his rights, he cannot play in the AHL (other than this conditioning stint he's currently on). I haven't seen it mentioned, can he only be traded within the Q or could he go to another junior league (that's more defensive/physical)?

Thnx Matt.

[Claude_Verret]

Because flu shots are essentially a coin flip?

 

Not true.

[darksabre]

Not true.

 

Based on what? "The doctor told me so."

[apuszczalowski]

I think my own concern about Grigs is that he's already being criticized for not working hard enough, and playing in a league where he's far more talented than the majority of his opponents might unintentionally reinforce laziness since he doesn't have to try as hard to be great there. I really hope the scenario others have suggested about an exception to allow him time in Rochester (more than the 2 week conditioning stint) plays out.

Can't see that happening, theres no reason why the Q would have to do that. I can see your point about the laziness possibly being a concern, but is it better for him to be lazy for a year in Juniors again while upping his confidence levels by being a huge fish in a small pond, or is it better for him to continue to struggle and lower his self esteem by continuing to struggle up at the NHL level? I think its easier for someone to beat out the laziness by playing against better competition then it is for someone to beat out a lowered self esteem by just continuing to play at the same level.

 

I don't think there is anyone, anywhere, that doesn't feel like he shouldn't be in the AHL right now, problem is that its not an option

[Claude_Verret]

Based on what? "The doctor told me so."

 

That. Or the fact that I've done influenza research on the vaccine and diagnostic side for what is approaching a decade.

[Assquatch]

There are no guarantees that the safety will work on a gun but it doesn't mean you shouldn't have it on before you put the gun in your pants.

The OP suggested that they don't get flu shots because players sometimes get the flu. The fact that they're not guarantees means maybe they ARE getting the shots but getting the flu anyway.

[biodork]

Can't see that happening, theres no reason why the Q would have to do that. I can see your point about the laziness possibly being a concern, but is it better for him to be lazy for a year in Juniors again while upping his confidence levels by being a huge fish in a small pond, or is it better for him to continue to struggle and lower his self esteem by continuing to struggle up at the NHL level? I think its easier for someone to beat out the laziness by playing against better competition then it is for someone to beat out a lowered self esteem by just continuing to play at the same level.

 

I don't think there is anyone, anywhere, that doesn't feel like he shouldn't be in the AHL right now, problem is that its not an option

 

This sounds like you'd prefer to keep him in the NHL but logging regular minutes, no?

[LTS]

So the claim is that Grigorenko has had the flu so he needs to go to Roch for some conditioning?

 

First off - why don't sports players get their flu shots?

 

Probably just means that Quebec needs more time to figure out what to do or find a trade partner.

Has this been discussed in another thread? I've always wondered about the rampancy (is that a word?) of the flu in the NHL. Is is really the flu? I'm sure they get their shots, but I'm also sure the travel, the physical demands of being an athlete, the close contact with teammates etc. could make them suspectible anyway. There are no guarantees with a flu shot.

Not true.

 

Very true. Incredibly true. So true it's ridiculous.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

 

Enjoy. The flu shot contains what they believe to be the most common strains of influenza will be encountered. Many times they are wrong.

 

It's also not effective in everyone.

 

For example, I've had a flu shot twice in my life. Coincidentally I've had the flu twice in my life. Both times were the same year I had the shot. No, it did not give me the flu. It also didn't prevent it. I worked in healthcare for 11 years where I battled administration on the requirements that staff who are in contact with patients must have a flu shot. (I'm basically opposed to taking medicine just for the hell of it.) I worked with some of the leading infectious disease researchers and all of them will tell you exactly the same thing.

 

Ain't no guarantees. Not the same for everyone.

[Claude_Verret]

Very true. Incredibly true. So true it's ridiculous.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/f...ccineeffect.htm

 

Enjoy. The flu shot contains what they believe to be the most common strains of influenza will be encountered. Many times they are wrong.

 

It's also not effective in everyone.

 

For example, I've had a flu shot twice in my life. Coincidentally I've had the flu twice in my life. Both times were the same year I had the shot. No, it did not give me the flu. It also didn't prevent it. I worked in healthcare for 11 years where I battled administration on the requirements that staff who are in contact with patients must have a flu shot. (I'm basically opposed to taking medicine just for the hell of it.) I worked with some of the leading infectious disease researchers and all of them will tell you exactly the same thing.

 

Ain't no guarantees. Not the same for everyone.

 

I'm well aware of all of that. It doesn't mean that the shot, both what strains go into it each year and it's effectiveness on individual patients, amounts to a coin flip either.

 

There are plenty of good reasons to not get vaccinated each year: allergy to eggs or other vaccine constituents, being deathly afraid of needles, even religious beliefs etc., but concern that the shot might not be effective isn't among them.

[Doohicksie]

Yeah, no ######.

 

I was all settled in to watch the youngins play at the NHL level. Now it seems like Lafontaine and Nolan want to reinvent the team using existing pieces and roster moves.

 

I don't know if it's right or wrong, and I'm sure we'll find out, but it's definitely a departure from the previous pain.

 

Fixed it for you.

[darksabre]

 

 

 

 

Very true. Incredibly true. So true it's ridiculous.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

 

Enjoy. The flu shot contains what they believe to be the most common strains of influenza will be encountered. Many times they are wrong.

 

It's also not effective in everyone.

 

For example, I've had a flu shot twice in my life. Coincidentally I've had the flu twice in my life. Both times were the same year I had the shot. No, it did not give me the flu. It also didn't prevent it. I worked in healthcare for 11 years where I battled administration on the requirements that staff who are in contact with patients must have a flu shot. (I'm basically opposed to taking medicine just for the hell of it.) I worked with some of the leading infectious disease researchers and all of them will tell you exactly the same thing.

 

Ain't no guarantees. Not the same for everyone.

 

Thank you. In an era where people take medical treatment for the hell of it and where doctors cause all sorts of harm as a result, I'll take my chances and seek medical treatment when I need it and no sooner. My faith in the medical field is not high.

[That Aud Smell]

Has this been discussed in another thread? I've always wondered about the rampancy (is that a word?) of the flu in the NHL. Is is really the flu? I'm sure they get their shots, but I'm also sure the travel, the physical demands of being an athlete, the close contact with teammates etc. could make them suspectible anyway. There are no guarantees with a flu shot.

Exactly

 

 

My new favorite phrase to hate.

So that is why the veterans have been so bad - they were just mad at the rookies. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

I bring it up and no one ever answers. So what is the answer why they don't get their flu shots?

There are no guarantees that the safety will work on a gun but it doesn't mean you shouldn't have it on before you put the gun in your pants.

Because flu shots are essentially a coin flip?

Not true.

Based on what? "The doctor told me so."

That. Or the fact that I've done influenza research on the vaccine and diagnostic side for what is approaching a decade.

Very true. Incredibly true. So true it's ridiculous.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/f...ccineeffect.htm

 

Enjoy. The flu shot contains what they believe to be the most common strains of influenza will be encountered. Many times they are wrong.

 

It's also not effective in everyone.

 

For example, I've had a flu shot twice in my life. Coincidentally I've had the flu twice in my life. Both times were the same year I had the shot. No, it did not give me the flu. It also didn't prevent it. I worked in healthcare for 11 years where I battled administration on the requirements that staff who are in contact with patients must have a flu shot. (I'm basically opposed to taking medicine just for the hell of it.) I worked with some of the leading infectious disease researchers and all of them will tell you exactly the same thing.

 

Ain't no guarantees. Not the same for everyone.

 

Sorry for starting that OT kerfluffle. I know how Scott disfavors such tangential content.

 

My point is a simple one: Many people -- and almost all hockey coaches and players and reporters -- use the term "the flu" as a misappropriated euphemism in order to refer to an upper or lower GI bug (virus) -- the kind that generally (and mercifully) runs through someone in ~24 hours, give or take. Indeed, sometimes it's not even a virus that is causing the unpleasant GI symptoms, but a nasty hangover -- hence "yeah, Tommy's home with a touch of the Irish flu" and such.

 

Influenza is something quite different, and far more serious. You can and should get your annual immunization shot for influenza. Your mileage may vary, but it's still the advisable thing to do.

 

Safe to say that if an NHL player were down with influenza on a Tuesday, he would not be back in the lineup on Thursday.

 

EDIT: To put a finer point on it: The "stomach flu" is unpleasant and miserable, but it is not the same as the influenza that killed some 675,000 Americans in and around 1918-1919. http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

[Doohicksie]

So the claim is that Grigorenko has had the flu so he needs to go to Roch for some conditioning?

 

First off - why don't sports players get their flu shots?

 

Probably just means that Quebec needs more time to figure out what to do or find a trade partner.

 

Or.... maybe he will be back with the big club in two weeks. I'll bet Nolan doesn't even know yet.

[dudacek]

Per the CBA, buffalo can't assign Grigs to Rochester.

Is there anything forbidding Quebec from assigning him to Rochester?

Especially if Pegula offered them some (ahem) encouragement?

[Claude_Verret]

 

Sorry for starting that OT kerfluffle. I know how Scott disfavors such tangential content.

 

My point is a simple one: Many people -- and almost all hockey coaches and players and reporters -- use the term "the flu" as a misappropriated euphemism in order to refer to an upper or lower GI bug (virus) -- the kind that generally run through someone in ~24 hours, give or take. Indeed, sometimes it's not even a virus that is causing the unpleasant GI symptoms, but a nasty hangover -- hence "yeah, Tommy's home with a touch of the Irish flu" and such.

 

Influenza is something quite different, and far more serious. You can and should get your annual immunization shot for influenza. Your mileage may vary, but it's still the advisable thing to do.

 

Safe to say that if an NHL player were down with influenza on a Tuesday, he would not be back in the lineup on Thursday.

 

And thank you for that. Influenza is a respiratory virus that for most of us on this board (teens to early 50's) it would probably amount to no more than a few days off of work. But for the very young and the elderly, it can mean a death sentence. That's precisely why people who are routinely directly in contact with patientsin a hospital are often required to get it. We just had people here from the CDC last week who are world wide influenza experts. Off the record you can tell they are just beaten down by a lot of the pseudoscience misinformation out there.

[LGR4GM]

I'm well aware of all of that. It doesn't mean that the shot, both what strains go into it each year and it's effectiveness on individual patients, amounts to a coin flip either.

 

There are plenty of good reasons to not get vaccinated each year: allergy to eggs or other vaccine constituents, being deathly afraid of needles, even religious beliefs etc., but concern that the shot might not be effective isn't among them.

Agreed. Most ppl who get flu shots do not end up getting the flu. It lowers your risks of contracting any strain of the flu by quite a lot... I think the last time Public Health had me look at Influenza research it was estimated at 75ish%? Maybe I am off on that but that number sticks in my mind. It is most definitely not a coin flip.

[MattPie]

Per the CBA, buffalo can't assign Grigs to Rochester.

Is there anything forbidding Quebec from assigning him to Rochester?

Especially if Pegula offered them some (ahem) encouragement?

 

As I understand it (from the radio and here), Quebec can decline his rights which would allow him to play "anywhere". They'd probably try to trade him to another Junior team first since they're trying to build a team too.

[Stoner]

Agreed. Most ppl who get flu shots do not end up getting the flu. It lowers your risks of contracting any strain of the flu by quite a lot... I think the last time Public Health had me look at Influenza research it was estimated at 75ish%? Maybe I am off on that but that number sticks in my mind. It is most definitely not a coin flip.

 

The shot can also make the course of your illness easier, if you do contract it, I believe.

[billsrcursed]

That. Or the fact that I've done influenza research on the vaccine and diagnostic side for what is approaching a decade.

 

Not to derail the thread, but then why do people who get the shot still get the flu? And wouldn't that, for whatever reason, still categorize the shot as "a coin flip"?