GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Buffalo at Toronto 11-16-13 at 7:00 PM EST

[deluca67]

Ah yup. I love how blinded Deluca is by his John Scott hate that he doesn't even want to acknowledge the injustice dealt against the team he supposedly roots for.

"Injustice?" The Leafs had a player assessed for the same 14 minutes and ended up with a power play, where's the injustice.

It's the same way Rob Ray was able to have a long NHL career. There's no reason Scott can't do the same. Unless the NHL has decided that unfair discrimination is acceptable. I would imagine the NHLPA might have cause to file a grievance seeing as how it's the players they represent who still want Scott in the game.

If you want to compare Scott against former Sabres than Andrew Peters is better for the comparison if you are basing it on skill level.

[Weave]

"Injustice?" The Leafs had a player assessed for the same 14 minutes and ended up with a power play, where's the injustice.

If you want to compare Scott against former Sabres than Andrew Peters is better for the comparison if you are basing it on skill level.

 

The injustice is that, while McLaren actually *did* something to earn his misconduct, Scott was penalized for not doing anything wrong. In fact, he didn't do anything at all. He didn't fight. He didn't attack anyone. He was tied up by McLaren, who grabbed him from behind, and thrown to the ice. And for that he was given the gate.

[deluca67]

Millbank, if you wanna post here that's fine but slinking away after we win then coming in guns blazing when you win is pretty sad. Scott was tossed for nothing and I hate to tell ppl but he is a capable fourth line player. The Sabres are repeatedly targeted by the league that is a fact we have to live with. That being said I'm surprised Scott hasn't been suspended for yesterday's action. You know how I know the leafs get special treatment, Kadri got three games for taking out backstrom, Scott got 7for clipping a guy. Both had no previous suspensions. One resulted in injury and it was Kadris.

 

Regardless of that, the Sabres lost because they played like garbage in the first period. Toronto took it to them and capatilized on their chances. Buffalo had good bounce back but you don't win by going down 3-0 early in the second. They need to play a complete game and I think Nolan will get them there. Lots of work left to do. This team needs to keep getting evaluated and keep working. St Louis is a hell of a lot harder to play than Toronto so that will be a good test Tuesday.

Does the tin foil cause interference with wi-fi?

 

Ericksson wasn't injured? :doh:

 

The injustice is that, while McLaren actually *did* something to earn his misconduct, Scott was penalized for not doing anything wrong. In fact, he didn't do anything at all. He didn't fight. He didn't attack anyone. He was tied up by McLaren, who grabbed him from behind, and thrown to the ice. And for that he was given the gate.

So, that was another #32 in a Sabres uniform dropping his gloves and attempting to grab Orr as Orr and McCormick fell to the ice?

[darksabre]

 

"Injustice?" The Leafs had a player assessed for the same 14 minutes and ended up with a power play, where's the injustice.

If you want to compare Scott against former Sabres than Andrew Peters is better for the comparison if you are basing it on skill level.

 

That is the exact definition of injustice!

 

You're unbelievable.

 

And how does comparing him to Peters change anything?

 

You're out of straws to grasp at with this discussion.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

The injustice is that, while McLaren actually *did* something to earn his misconduct, Scott was penalized for not doing anything wrong. In fact, he didn't do anything at all. He didn't fight. He didn't attack anyone. He was tied up by McLaren, who grabbed him from behind, and thrown to the ice. And for that he was given the gate.

 

Even the McLaren portion of the dust up wasn't worth 14. In fairness, Orr probably deserved the gate for trying to be the preemptive 3rd man in. But I get it.....the refs were trying to make sure nothing stupid happened. Funny thing is, the Sabres scored on the resulting powerplay which made the goon aspect go away.

 

As for Scott, I was actually impressed to see him trying to be a real hockey player. As long as the league doesn't punish cheapshots fairly, there is a need for him. Am I alone in thinking that he didn't look that lost in cycling the puck on the boards and blocking shots?

[Weave]

Does the tin foil cause interference with wi-fi?

 

Ericksson wasn't injured? :doh:

 

 

So, that was another #32 in a Sabres uniform dropping his gloves and attempting to grab Orr as Orr and McCormick fell to the ice?

 

you mean the #32 that never laid a hand on anyone? Never even got close to touching Orr? That #32? Yeah. That's the one. Orr pulls a classic 3rd man in and doesn't get a misconduct. Scott gets yanked down to the ice from behind and gets the boot.

[deluca67]

That is the exact definition of injustice!

 

You're unbelievable.

 

And how does comparing him to Peters change anything?

 

You're out of straws to grasp at with this discussion.

You didn't compare Scott to Rob Ray and say "It's the same way Rob Ray was able to have a long NHL career. There's no reason Scott can't do the same."? Short term memory loss?

 

The Leafs started the scrum and paid for it an extra two minutes. That's not injustice.

[SwampD]

Even the McLaren portion of the dust up wasn't worth 14. In fairness, Orr probably deserved the gate for trying to be the preemptive 3rd man in. But I get it.....the refs were trying to make sure nothing stupid happened. Funny thing is, the Sabres scored on the resulting powerplay which made the goon aspect go away.

 

As for Scott, I was actually impressed to see him trying to be a real hockey player. As long as the league doesn't punish cheapshots fairly, there is a need for him. Am I alone in thinking that he didn't look that lost in cycling the puck on the boards and blocking shots?

Nope, and he also made some decent plays in our zone to get the puck out. Some people see what they want to see, I guess.

[deluca67]

you mean the #32 that never laid a hand on anyone? Never even got close to touching Orr? That #32? Yeah. That's the one. Orr pulls a classic 3rd man in and doesn't get a misconduct. Scott gets yanked down to the ice from behind and gets the boot.

"classic 3rd man in" requires an actual fight. Orr was tagged with a 10 minute misconduct, for his actions in the scrum.

 

The video clearly shows Scott dropping the gloves and reaching for Orr, he missed and McLaren grabbed him.

 

The officials got the calls right on the play.

[LGR4GM]

You are right Ericksson was out for about 10 days or so.

 

Ask yourself this though which play is more dangerous and is more GOONISH here is the GIF of the Kadri forearm bash to the head. If Scott gets 7games and Kadri only gets 3 for this it is ###### an favoritism.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/11/13/5101966/niklas-backstrom-injury-leaves-game-shortly-after-hit-from-nazem-kadri

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

"classic 3rd man in" requires an actual fight. Orr was tagged with a 10 minute misconduct, for his actions in the scrum.

 

The video clearly shows Scott dropping the gloves and reaching for Orr, he missed and McLaren grabbed him.

 

The officials got the calls right on the play.

 

So I cued it up again because its fun......but McCormick was engaged w/ #3 and Orr already had his gloves off and threw a punch. Cody ducked it which led to the flip. Of all the people in the dust up, Orr was the one who was most in the wrong and should have been sent to the showers. Scott dropped his gloves, made a move but backed off without touching anyone. McLaren tied him up after the fact.

 

The only problem I have with this is that Nolan gave him standing orders to not be a joke. He spent the duration of the night ignoring the calls for a staged fight from Orr and McLaren and was still punished the same way.

[Weave]

"classic 3rd man in" requires an actual fight. Orr was tagged with a 10 minute misconduct, for his actions in the scrum.

 

The video clearly shows Scott dropping the gloves and reaching for Orr, he missed and McLaren grabbed him.

 

The officials got the calls right on the play.

 

So he "misses" grabbing Orr and is jumped from behind. And this is misconduct worthy to you? Seriously? There has never been a precedent for a 10 minute misconduct for ditching your gloves in a scrum and trying to grab someone from the pile. If his ditching his gloves and grabbing at someone was worthy of a 10 then why didn't McCormick get 10? He was an actual aggressor. Who ditched his gloves. And successfully grabbed ahold of a player actively involved in the scrum.

 

And Scott received 2 minors for roughing. Whom pray tell was John Scott "roughing"? He never touched a Leaf. Never laid a hand on any of them.

[deluca67]

So I cued it up again because its fun......but McCormick was engaged w/ #3 and Orr already had his gloves off and threw a punch. Cody ducked it which led to the flip. Of all the people in the dust up, Orr was the one who was most in the wrong and should have been sent to the showers. Scott dropped his gloves, made a move but backed off without touching anyone. McLaren tied him up after the fact.

 

The only problem I have with this is that Nolan gave him standing orders to not be a joke. He spent the duration of the night ignoring the calls for a staged fight from Orr and McLaren and was still punished the same way.

As I said going into Friday's game, Scott has a target on him now. He will be identified to every official before every game. He can try to become a hockey player, that won't wash away his reputation. It's the same reason Kaleta is in the AHL.

 

You are right Ericksson was out for about 10 days or so.

 

Ask yourself this though which play is more dangerous and is more GOONISH here is the GIF of the Kadri forearm bash to the head. If Scott gets 7games and Kadri only gets 3 for this it is ###### an favoritism.

http://www.sbnation....rom-nazem-kadri

Not every collision in the NHL is equivalent to Scott targeting the head of a star player no matter how the play looks. Kadri should have let up when he went into Backstrom and was punished for it. If you want to complain about Kadri take a look at the match penalty he took later in the game. I expected Kadri to get something for that hit.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

I understand that if Scott really intends on making a change that it will take time. My only beef is that the refs would have seen that all game he didn't take the bait for a staged fight. I understand a reputation, however, a good ref also understands the flow of the game and is able to pay attention.

 

If Orr was kicked out of the game, we probably would have seen McLaren jump Scott, and would have had another power play.

[wjag]

"classic 3rd man in" requires an actual fight. Orr was tagged with a 10 minute misconduct, for his actions in the scrum.

 

The video clearly shows Scott dropping the gloves and reaching for Orr, he missed and McLaren grabbed him.

 

The officials got the calls right on the play.

 

You sure do enjoy tilting at windmills. :flirt:

[LGR4GM]

 

As I said going into Friday's game, Scott has a target on him now. He will be identified to every official before every game. He can try to become a hockey player, that won't wash away his reputation. It's the same reason Kaleta is in the AHL.

 

 

Not every collision in the NHL is equivalent to Scott targeting the head of a star player no matter how the play looks. Kadri should have let up when he went into Backstrom and was punished for it. If you want to complain about Kadri take a look at the match penalty he took later in the game. I expected Kadri to get something for that hit.

So backstrom isn't a star player and you don't believe Kadri targeted him?

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

So backstrom isn't a star player and you don't believe Kadri targeted him?

 

That doesn't matter....what matters is who hits the player. Dustin Brown hit Pominville (a similar player to Eriksson) and got 1 game if memory serves. The league disciplinary process is broken, and it is a popularity contest.

[bunomatic]

That doesn't matter....what matters is who hits the player. Dustin Brown hit Pominville (a similar player to Eriksson) and got 1 game if memory serves. The league disciplinary process is broken, and it is a popularity contest.

 

True that

[darksabre]

 

You didn't compare Scott to Rob Ray and say "It's the same way Rob Ray was able to have a long NHL career. There's no reason Scott can't do the same."? Short term memory loss?

 

The Leafs started the scrum and paid for it an extra two minutes. That's not injustice.

 

Are you implying that Rob Ray was any more a hockey player than Scott? Because that would be insane.

 

There should have been no penalty to John Scott. What is your malfunction?

[Kristian]

Interesting. I'd heard the "lack of communication" gripe about Darcy many times before, but not about Rolston. A lot of what players seems to be wanting is pretty much what any employee in any industry wants... communication, they don't want to be micro-managed, they want to be trusted, they want seniority to mean something, etc.

 

Although I was definitely no RR fan, I find it amusing that the one player who is crying to the media about him, is the one player that has continued to suck under the new coach.

[deluca67]

So backstrom isn't a star player and you don't believe Kadri targeted him?

I think Kadri took advantage of the situation he found himself in and was punished for it. What Scott did is a completely different set of circumstances.

Are you implying that Rob Ray was any more a hockey player than Scott? Because that would be insane.

 

There should have been no penalty to John Scott. What is your malfunction?

I'm not implying anything. I am outright stating that when it comes to hockey skills there is no comparison, Ray at least had some, Scott has nil. Which is why I mentioned you should be using Andrew Peters as a comparable. Scotts skill level, or lack of, is closer to Peters than it is Ray.

[LGR4GM]

I think Kadri took advantage of the situation he found himself in and was punished for it. What Scott did is a completely different set of circumstances.

So what you are saying is that Scott deserved more punishment because? I want you to spell it out. Use big words too, because I am slow.

 

And Kadri deserved less punishment because...?

[That Aud Smell]

Anyone following general managers meetings, competition meetings ect over the past few years now, there clearly is a move to do away with the role of enforcer in game, guy who's role is simply to fight. This not a Sabre thing or a Scott , it about if teams employ a player who's entire job is to fight that team will pay a price. The old direction of league is changing from the carnival of the staged fight. It sending a message to management , where it should be sent to. Scotts behavior not wrong or similar players they doing there job as hired. Making comment like it or no, defending Sabres right or wrong begets what has transpired for many years now of wheel spinning. Nolan last evening when asked if he had talked to Scott about staged fighting, said he had told Scott he does not want this stuff from a Sabre, while he believes there is a place for fighting in game, there is no placed for the carnival stuff. It cheapens the game .

 

I understand the frustration for Scott being assessed penalties and a misconduct that were undeserved and meted out based on reputation rather than fact. That said, I agree with millbank: The league's poisoned against Scott (and players like him) and will continue to punish the Sabres for employing him. Unfair? Sure. Bound to change in Scott's favor? Don't hold your breath.

 

I hate to tell ppl but he is a capable fourth line player.

 

Nope. Not now. Not ever.

[Doohicksie]

Even the McLaren portion of the dust up wasn't worth 14. In fairness, Orr probably deserved the gate for trying to be the preemptive 3rd man in. But I get it.....the refs were trying to make sure nothing stupid happened. Funny thing is, the Sabres scored on the resulting powerplay which made the goon aspect go away.

 

As for Scott, I was actually impressed to see him trying to be a real hockey player. As long as the league doesn't punish cheapshots fairly, there is a need for him. Am I alone in thinking that he didn't look that lost in cycling the puck on the boards and blocking shots?

 

He is a below average player. Skating speed is probably bottom 10% of the league. Stick handling is probably bottom 30%. That said, he's not totally out of place in the league. He's bounced around but has had steady work, so that says something. He's perfect for the role the Sabers need him for and frankly I don't think he's generally regarded as a dirty player, just a big oaf who occasionally hits people high because he's so tall.

[That Aud Smell]

he's not totally out of place in the league.

 

i just don't get this sentiment. at all.

 

i'd venture that there are a dozen or more guys playing in the ECHL who could do precisely what (or even more than) scott does. i'd even venture to say that there may be a handful of in-shape amateurs (like the guy who is an outside sales rep for one of our vendors (he played at the D1 level in college and is a big fookin' dude)) who could replace the hockey that scott brings to the rink.

 

you can put all the lipstick in the world on a pig. that won't change what it is.

 

p.s. for those who haven't seen me post elsewhere on the subject: i really, really like scott as a personality. i just do not understand him having a role on an nhl hockey team.