Would Terry get booed?

[LastPommerFan]

If you're booing Regier, you're booing Pegula. What's the difference? Pegula is the one who said he wants Regier here, and he's the only one who can keep him here or let him go.

 

This right here. If you dislike Regier, you dislike Pegula. The only difference between the two is that Pegula has the chance, with a single press release, to become "not-Darcy-Regier", while Darcy will always be Darcy.

[That Aud Smell]

This right here. If you dislike Regier, you dislike Pegula.

 

Disagree. I still have faith in Pegula; I have none in DR.

 

I can be sick and tired of DR (and I am), but patiently frustrated with Pegula's process and decision making (which I also am).

[LastPommerFan]

Disagree. I still have faith in Pegula; I have none in DR.

 

I can be sick and tired of DR (and I am), but patiently frustrated with Pegula's process and decision making (which I also am).

 

Then you do not believe that DR is hopeless. The only reason you can forgive Pegula for his decision is that you believe that Regier has some chance of putting together a winner.

[qwksndmonster]

Then you do not believe that DR is hopeless. The only reason you can forgive Pegula for his decision is that you believe that Regier has some chance of putting together a winner.

Or you think he'll eventually come to his senses and fire him?

[Eleven]

Then you do not believe that DR is hopeless. The only reason you can forgive Pegula for his decision is that you believe that Regier has some chance of putting together a winner.

 

How about for buying the team from a guy who never was going to spend the money to stay competitive?

[That Aud Smell]

Then you do not believe that DR is hopeless.

 

Not true.

 

The only reason you can forgive Pegula for his decision is that you believe that Regier has some chance of putting together a winner.

 

Not true. Why must I "forgive" the owner -- an inarguably (IMO) committed owner -- of my favorite hockey for a decision with which I disagree? My answer: I needn't forgive him -- he hasn't wronged me. He's going about things in a way that I find perplexing and at times infuriating, but it's his team. I'm a fan. In these circumstances, I can continue to hope for the best and have faith that he can get it right, eventually.

 

If I felt otherwise, I would check out of the Sabres-fan-thing entirely.

[Peanit]

I don't really care if Terry gets booed or not.

To me Terry's worth will come when we have a good team and his ablity to keep those good players here.

[darksabre]

With the money Terry is pumping into downtown and the local hockey scene, I'm giving him a pass on the Sabres at the moment.

[TrueBlueGED]

Then you do not believe that DR is hopeless. The only reason you can forgive Pegula for his decision is that you believe that Regier has some chance of putting together a winner.

 

Alternative: you don't believe that Pegula is forever married to Regier.

[johnyvegas]

If you're booing Regier, you're booing Pegula. What's the difference?

 

Exactly. And, you reminded me of a Tom Petty interview I saw where he described opening up for Bruce Springsteen. A friend of his (Jackson Browne) told him not to be bothered when he hears what sounds like boos during his set. "It's just people yelling "Bruuuuuce!" Petty's response was "Well, what's the difference man?"

[...]

How about for buying the team from a guy who never was going to spend the money to stay competitive?

 

So what? He bought the team, and keeps them from being competitive by not making the appropriate staffing moves through whatever decisions he is making now, whether they're staff or otherwise. What does it matter the reason for being non-competitive if the reason is due to decisions by the owner?

 

Sure, one could say (but not argue) that "well, there's a chance Pegula can change his mind", but we could have easily given Golisano that chance, too (and we did). There is no argument here, though, because it's only conjecture; the fact of the matter is that the team is not competitive under Pegula. Actually, one could say the team was far more competitive under the "restrictive" ownership of Golisano.

[That Aud Smell]

If you're booing Regier, you're booing Pegula. What's the difference? Pegula is the one who said he wants Regier here, and he's the only one who can keep him here or let him go.

Exactly. And, you reminded me of a Tom Petty interview I saw where he described opening up for Bruce Springsteen. A friend of his (Jackson Browne) told him not to be bothered when he hears what sounds like boos during his set. "It's just people yelling "Bruuuuuce!" Petty's response was "Well, what's the difference man?"

 

that's a funny story about petty. to the original point: if you're booing regier, you're not (at least i'm not) booing the owner. if you're booing darcy, you are showing disapproval of the decision to retain him. if the position is that disagreement with a legitimate (even if dunderheaded) ownership decision is good grounds for booing an owner who's pumping scads of cash into the franchise and surrounding area, then i'm out (/loudly drops mic on the stage).

 

when i joined the "fi-re dar-cy!" chants a couple weeks ago, i wasn't by extension chanting "sell the team, terry!" or "pegula is a bum!"

 

So what? He bought the team, and keeps them from being competitive by not making the appropriate staffing moves through whatever decisions he is making now, whether they're staff or otherwise. What does it matter the reason for being non-competitive if the reason is due to decisions by the owner? Sure, one could say (but not argue) that "well, there's a chance Pegula can change his mind", but we could have easily given Golisano that chance, too (and we did). There is no argument here, though, because it's only conjecture; the fact of the matter is that the team is not competitive under Pegula. Actually, one could say the team was far more competitive under the "restrictive" ownership of Golisano.

 

again, the idea that fans would feel moved to boo an owner, who is by all accounts committed to the franchise's success, based on the fact that they strongly disagree with a decision he's made (or hasn't yet made) is ... well, repugnant to me. really. i've come to realize that i would be deeply embarrassed if pegula were to be booed based on the grounds described here.

[...]

Okay, but it's still indicting Pegula when you chant anti-Regier chants. It's still saying "Pegula, your decision sucks and I'm angry about it" regardless of your philosophical redirections. And when you tell someone their decisions suck, you're saying their judgment sucks, and, fundamentally, they suck for making those decisions. So, boiling it down, you are saying they suck, for whatever reason.

 

Regier is here because Pegula wants him here. Period. Booing Regier is booing Pegula. I don't see how one can separate Pegula and his decision to keep Regier here, from Regier actually being here. They are they same thing, especially given the context in which all of this is happening.

 

If fans are dissatisfied with the decisions, what other outlet do they have? Okay, don't buy tickets, don't go to games. Well, that's starting to happen, but it's not the instant gratification of simply conveying a simple message like a "boo" does. And it's direct - there are no filters like any of the boobs on the radio or Ted Black, or ignores on Facebook or Twitter, email spam dumps, VM message systems, etc., etc. Pegula gets the message loud and clear if he is booed.

 

While the investment downtown is nice, I think SABRE'S FANS want the Sabres to rock, not blow. I think most of them are most concerned, by far (and for better or worse), with the performance of the team. Seriously, we in the area have lived with a horrid downtown that is finally...finally...turning around with or without Pegula. Pegula owns the Sabres, I suspect people want him to deal with that mess first. And, it's pretty clear that the mess is getting worse than better.

[That Aud Smell]

Okay, but it's still indicting Pegula when you chant anti-Regier chants. It's still saying "Pegula, your decision sucks and I'm angry about it" regardless of your philosophical redirections. And when you tell someone their decisions suck, you're saying their judgment sucks, and, fundamentally, they suck for making those decisions. So, boiling it down, you are saying they suck, for whatever reason.

 

I agree that booing (chanting for the removal of) Regier is meant to be heard by Pegula as well.

 

But as for the formula of Decision sucks = judgment sucks = the person sucks - I won't go there.

 

I disagree with people plenty, even quite strongly. That doesn't mean that I equate their position with their personhood.

 

If fans are dissatisfied with the decisions, what other outlet do they have? Okay, don't buy tickets, don't go to games.

 

Well, yeah.

 

Well, that's starting to happen, but it's not the instant gratification of simply conveying a simple message like a "boo" does.

 

And there it is. If we were to carry the debate further, we'd be getting into social mores, maybe even metaphysics.

 

But you're probably more in line with how a good number of people think and would behave, if given the chance. I'm just one of those people who would be there lamenting that people would conduct themselves in that way.

 

And, it's pretty clear that the mess is getting worse than better.

 

And I think that's the idea: Bottom out for 2-3 years, acquire elite talent and hit on some solid role players through mid-round 1st picks and 2nd rounders, and contend.

[BMWR100RT]

Okay, but it's still indicting Pegula when you chant anti-Regier chants. It's still saying "Pegula, your decision sucks and I'm angry about it" regardless of your philosophical redirections. And when you tell someone their decisions suck, you're saying their judgment sucks, and, fundamentally, they suck for making those decisions. So, boiling it down, you are saying they suck, for whatever reason.

 

If you own tickets and you aren't getting what you pay for, its right to complain. His judgment does suck on his GM loyalty. Otherwise he's a good owner. I think he can separate the two. I think he knows the teams record.

 

[...]

 

And there it is. If we were to carry the debate further, we'd be getting into social mores, maybe even metaphysics.

 

But you're probably more in line with how a good number of people think and would behave, if given the chance. I'm just one of those people who would be there lamenting that people would conduct themselves in that way.

 

 

I'm not advocating the behavior in question, I'm just laying out an understanding of it. I, personally, would not think poorly of people who, especially ticket buyers, who booed Pegula in the appropriate context.

 

It goes without saying that we're discussing the appropriate context, right? I mean, I don't think people would start yelling at Pegula while he's out at The Buffalo Chophouse for a snack, or at Wegman's buying a dozen doughnuts.

 

But if he's out there at the game, and attention is brought upon him like they did when he first bought the team, and he's booed, then, to me, that's perfectly acceptable.

 

 

And I think that's the idea: Bottom out for 2-3 years, acquire elite talent and hit on some solid role players through mid-round 1st picks and 2nd rounders, and contend.

 

See, what needs to be done is that Pegula needs to come out and talk to the fans. He started out that way, talking to and connecting with the fans. Now, he hides. The hiding just adds to the justification for booing, IMHO. But if he were to have a presser that's well-rehearsed, where HE lays out the plan, and HE reiterates his justification for retaining Regier, I think that would go a long, long way.

 

And the thing is that he's a natural for that kind of Ronald Reagan type of communicating with "the base", even with his gaffs and peculiarities. His PR team totally misses this ever-so-apparent fact.

 

 

[That Aud Smell]

I'm not advocating the behavior in question, I'm just laying out an understanding of it.

Gotcha.

 

I mean, I don't think people would start yelling at Pegula while he's out at The Buffalo Chophouse for a snack, or at Wegman's buying a dozen doughnuts.

My prior posts notwithstanding: How awesome would that be, though?

 

See, what needs to be done is that Pegula needs to come out and talk to the fans. He started out that way, talking to and connecting with the fans. Now, he hides. The hiding just adds to the justification for booing, IMHO. But if he were to have a presser that's well-rehearsed, where HE lays out the plan, and HE reiterates his justification for retaining Regier, I think that would go a long, long way.

 

And the thing is that he's a natural for that kind of Ronald Reagan type of communicating with "the base", even with his gaffs and peculiarities. His PR team totally misses this ever-so-apparent fact.

This, I agree with. It could just be a Q&A with Duff or whomever--all pre-approved questions, lightly rehearsed answers, allow for some light sparring with questions he knows are coming. Enough with the "what has he done wrong?!" nonsense. Acknowledge that fans have legitimate questions and concerns, and just say that, as owner, it's your job to do what you think is best for the franchise, and that you're truly and honestly doing that every single day, but you understand there are those who will think you're doing it all wrong -- so be it.

 

I wonder whether bringing that Penn State guy on is part of his effort to get a handle on this area -- the P.R. side of things.

[nfreeman]

With the money Terry is pumping into downtown and the local hockey scene, I'm giving him a pass on the Sabres at the moment.

Alternative: you don't believe that Pegula is forever married to Regier.

to the original point: if you're booing regier, you're not (at least i'm not) booing the owner. if you're booing darcy, you are showing disapproval of the decision to retain him. if the position is that disagreement with a legitimate (even if dunderheaded) ownership decision is good grounds for booing an owner who's pumping scads of cash into the franchise and surrounding area, then i'm out (/loudly drops mic on the stage).

 

I agree with all of this.

[dudacek]

 

 

 

I'm not advocating the behavior in question, I'm just laying out an understanding of it. I, personally, would not think poorly of people who, especially ticket buyers, who booed Pegula in the appropriate context.

 

It goes without saying that we're discussing the appropriate context, right? I mean, I don't think people would start yelling at Pegula while he's out at The Buffalo Chophouse for a snack, or at Wegman's buying a dozen doughnuts.

 

But if he's out there at the game, and attention is brought upon him like they did when he first bought the team, and he's booed, then, to me, that's perfectly acceptable.

 

 

 

See, what needs to be done is that Pegula needs to come out and talk to the fans. He started out that way, talking to and connecting with the fans. Now, he hides. The hiding just adds to the justification for booing, IMHO. But if he were to have a presser that's well-rehearsed, where HE lays out the plan, and HE reiterates his justification for retaining Regier, I think that would go a long, long way.

 

And the thing is that he's a natural for that kind of Ronald Reagan type of communicating with "the base", even with his gaffs and peculiarities. His PR team totally misses this ever-so-apparent fact.

 

This will happen after the tear down is complete, Darcy is moved to his advisor's position and the new GM is introduced - all by the end of this year, just as has been planned since last spring.

#mynaiveblueprint

[nfreeman]

This will happen after the tear down is complete, Darcy is moved to his advisor's position and the new GM is introduced - all by the end of this year, just as has been planned since last spring.

#mynaiveblueprint

 

I'm very likely kidding myself, but I'm starting to think that DR is indeed going to be shown the door after the season. It just seems crazy to think that they would finish something like 15-67, have fans chanting "fire Darcy," have tons of empty seats in the last couple of months of the season, and have irate fans calling into the radio shows and writing letters to the paper & emails to the team -- and then bring back DR and RR in a desperation attempt to repeat the same horrible season just for a 25% chance at McDavid? Would that really happen? I suppose it could, but still -- it's hard to picture.

[Stoner]

I'm very likely kidding myself, but I'm starting to think that DR is indeed going to be shown the door after the season. It just seems crazy to think that they would finish something like 15-67, have fans chanting "fire Darcy," have tons of empty seats in the last couple of months of the season, and have irate fans calling into the radio shows and writing letters to the paper & emails to the team -- and then bring back DR and RR in a desperation attempt to repeat the same horrible season just for a 25% chance at McDavid? Would that really happen? I suppose it could, but still -- it's hard to picture.

 

"Panic doesn't seem to work."

[...]

 

 

I'm very likely kidding myself, but I'm starting to think that DR is indeed going to be shown the door after the season. It just seems crazy to think that they would finish something like 15-67, have fans chanting "fire Darcy," have tons of empty seats in the last couple of months of the season, and have irate fans calling into the radio shows and writing letters to the paper & emails to the team -- and then bring back DR and RR in a desperation attempt to repeat the same horrible season just for a 25% chance at McDavid? Would that really happen? I suppose it could, but still -- it's hard to picture.

 

If it were a 100% chance, like it were back in the day, then, yes, I could picture that. At 25% chance, that's a tough call I think, even for the Tanking Advocates. There is nothing, now, to indicate that they are doing anything but hunkering down for the long haul on the Road of Suffering. When they start taking the picks they have, and will pick up, and flip them for first round picks for 2015 draft, then we'll know Regier is definitely here for the duration of the plan, and that the plan is, indeed, to try and make a play for McDavid.

 

 

[Andrew Amerk]

Would TP get booed?

 

Prolly not. 75% of the people at the game would prolly be Laffs fans, or fans of another team.

[ALF]

No way would I boo Pegula. His massive investment downtown, buying outright Rochester Amerks instead of staying in Maine. He is willing to take a loss in money to build a long term young team when the quick fix didn't work. Darcy needs more expert advisors and a even better scouting staff which Terry could afford. They do need a better teaching coaching staff here and Rochester to develop all this young talent .

[LastPommerFan]

to the original point: if you're booing regier, you're not (at least i'm not) booing the owner. if you're booing darcy, you are showing disapproval of the decision to retain him. if the position is that disagreement with a legitimate (even if dunderheaded) ownership decision is good grounds for booing an owner who's pumping scads of cash into the franchise and surrounding area, then i'm out (/loudly drops mic on the stage).

 

when i joined the "fi-re dar-cy!" chants a couple weeks ago, i wasn't by extension chanting "sell the team, terry!" or "pegula is a bum!"

 

I am ignoring all the off ice awesomeness because (A) I don't live in Buffalo, and I never have and (B) the vast majority of his work is just investments in for-profit ventures, several of which there was competition for with other like-minded investors.

 

Essentially the owner makes only 2 decisions that effect the quality of the team. How much money to spend, and who will spend it.

 

The first is simply a threshold question and for a guy with Billions, is a no brainer. Terry Pegula is failing on 50% of his tasks related to making my hockey club a winner. Darcy regier represents that failure.

 

Booing a sports character is different than saying you want that person gone. Booing the powerplay after 30 consecutive failed attempts is booing to indicate you want an improvement in that element of the franchise, not that you want the six guys on the ice traded at the earliest possible moment.