apuszczalowski Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Boy--we are in Bills land----this once proud franchise--applauding good but losing efforts. Its eerie. Its what the sheep do, Darcy told us that a long rebuild through the draft with suffering was the way that dynasties are built like Pittsburgh. Yeah Participation, now less all sit down and eat our orange slices with the other team and tell them how much fun you had playing against them.
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Its what the sheep do, Darcy told us that a long rebuild through the draft with suffering was the way that dynasties are built like Pittsburgh. Yeah Participation, now less all sit down and eat our orange slices with the other team and tell them how much fun you had playing against them. It's not being sheep, it's acknowledging reality--teams build and rebuild through the draft, especially if they're in need of a new foundation.
Jsixspd Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Weren't you one of the louder voices calling for Ruff's head? Yep - both should have been gone - the GM before the coach, since the entire organization has the GM's fingerprints on it.
Iron Crotch Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Anyone see the banner in the lobby of the arena? (someone posted this on facebook)
Jsixspd Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Boy--we are in Bills land----this once proud franchise--applauding good but losing efforts. Its eerie. The Bills have been "rebuilding" for nearly a decade. And they're what, 3-5 at the halfway point of the season? Projecting out, they end with another dismal losing season of 6-10. Some teams can go out and rebuild in a year. Buffalo teams like the Bills, and apparently now the Sabres, take much longer than the norm. And with Buffalo teams, the "rebuilt" results are almost indistinguishable from those of the original. Primarily because Buffalo teams try to do it 'differently' than other teams that use proven formulas for success. Any OTHER NHL team, that was truly interested in winning, and building a Stanley Cup contender, wouldn't be keeping a GM with a losing record onboard, year after year after year.
apuszczalowski Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Anyone see the banner in the lobby of the arena? (someone posted this on facebook) Yup, saw that when the guy unveiled it over the railing, thought it was great. Funny that the 'Fire Darcy' Chants were getting pretty loud until Ott scored, then they went quiet It's not being sheep, it's acknowledging reality--teams build and rebuild through the draft, especially if they're in need of a new foundation. Sure they do, I know, the Islanders and oilers have been demonstrating this for many years to the league, didn't they write the book on how to rebuild through the draft
IKnowPhysics Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Fun game to watch tonight. Kids looked alright again tonight. I'm seeing some pretty good effort and skating from Larsson. Nice night for Matt Moulson. Looked like good chemistry with Ennis so far, could be fun to watch.
bunomatic Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Damn. Missed this one. Travelling. Glad This new guy seems gung ho. GO SABRES!
Weave Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 It was an entertaining game, I liked what the youngsters did, and we got closer to a top pick. So pretty good overall. Testify!
That Aud Smell Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I was at the game -- very entertaining from start to finish. I don't have many takeaways (between beer and no replays, I tend to lose a bit (a lot) of analytical power), but I will say a few things. * Tribute to Lindy was great--couldn't hear the audio in-house, as the cheers drowned it out. * I like where Risto's game is going. The guy has all the tools to be a really good one, with a healthy dose of nasty. (Kronwall-esque?) * Ennis on the wing. Praise be to Jeebus. * Grigorenko seemed to have more "compete", as the coaches say (I hate when verbs are made into nouns (charitable requests are "asks")). * The home crowd showed the worst team in the NHL that, if they give honest effort, the fans will support them. The crowd came to its feet and roared a bit for a Dallas zone face-off with a minute or so to go. * That said, I think having Lindy in the building energized the crowd in a way that it might not otherwise have been (?). We'll see.
kishoph Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Ennis had one of his best games in a while. He played the wing, where he's supposed to be, with another winger who puts in the effort to keep up with him. I'd like to see where that line goes...maybe Hodgson will learn to play better with two higher-effort wingers. If Moulson is the "spark" that gets Ennis and Hodgson playing like they're capable of, I'm all for trying to sign him, Ennis played smarter and Hodgson played harder. This team needs some kind of veteran presence other than Drew Stafford.
Stoner Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 The Bills have been "rebuilding" for nearly a decade. And they're what, 3-5 at the halfway point of the season? Projecting out, they end with another dismal losing season of 6-10. Some teams can go out and rebuild in a year. Buffalo teams like the Bills, and apparently now the Sabres, take much longer than the norm. And with Buffalo teams, the "rebuilt" results are almost indistinguishable from those of the original. Primarily because Buffalo teams try to do it 'differently' than other teams that use proven formulas for success. Any OTHER NHL team, that was truly interested in winning, and building a Stanley Cup contender, wouldn't be keeping a GM with a losing record onboard, year after year after year. This brightened my morning, in an odd way. You nailed it. You don't have to be too cynical to think "rebuilding" is an easy way to take advantage of fans. * The home crowd showed the worst team in the NHL that, if they give honest effort, the fans will support them. The crowd came to its feet and roared a bit for a Dallas zone face-off with a minute or so to go. * That said, I think having Lindy in the building energized the crowd in a way that it might not otherwise have been (?). We'll see. It was an interesting moment. A turning point, maybe. A lot of people have been behaving like spoiled babies (I threw pureed carrots at the TV recently). Maybe some people are beginning to accept the idea of the team being historically bad and Darcy being here forever and are reverting to instinct: it's supposed to be fun and you're supposed to try and lift your team. You don't take it out on kids who aren't the problem. I agree that Lindy was a factor in crowd energy and Matt Moulson isn't going to score twice in his Buffalo debut again. Still, a big part of it was scoring a couple of goals and skating reasonably hard in a comeback bid.
That Aud Smell Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 It was an interesting moment. A turning point, maybe. A lot of people have been behaving like spoiled babies (I threw pureed carrots at the TV recently). Maybe some people are beginning to accept the idea of the team being historically bad and Darcy being here forever and are reverting to instinct: it's supposed to be fun and you're supposed to try and lift your team. You don't take it out on kids who aren't the problem. I agree that Lindy was a factor in crowd energy and Matt Moulson isn't going to score twice in his Buffalo debut again. Still, a big part of it was scoring a couple of goals and skating reasonably hard in a comeback bid. Good stuff. It's funny how we seem to have had some really good hockey playing Dallas at home -- remember when Bill Clinton was at that untelevised game? I do -- that game was delirium. I read that that was the first time Dallas had won in our rink since June 17/18, 1999. Yikes.
wjag Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I threw pureed carrots at the TV recently Have a seat on the couch: 1. Anger issues? 2. Pureed carrots? 3. Do you hate your TV?
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Sure they do, I know, the Islanders and oilers have been demonstrating this for many years to the league, didn't they write the book on how to rebuild through the draft How about this: how many good teams have been successful for a period of three years without a drafted foundation? We can even make it simple, what percentage of playoff teams the last three years did not draft their foundation? My guess is it's well under 50%, which basically destroys your point about blind sheep. Building through the draft isn't limited to those who have been bad for ages, as much as you would like that to be the case.
nfreeman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 How about this: how many good teams have been successful for a period of three years without a drafted foundation? We can even make it simple, what percentage of playoff teams the last three years did not draft their foundation? My guess is it's well under 50%, which basically destroys your point about blind sheep. Building through the draft isn't limited to those who have been bad for ages, as much as you would like that to be the case. I will note for the record that a team doesn't need to bottom out in order to build through the draft. San Jose seems to have done a nice job of it while not becoming a laughingstock like the Sabres are now. Separately: Hodgy-Moulson-Ennis produced more offense last night than Hodgy-Vanek-Winger X produced all season.
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I will note for the record that a team doesn't need to bottom out in order to build through the draft. San Jose seems to have done a nice job of it while not becoming a laughingstock like the Sabres are now. Separately: Hodgy-Moulson-Ennis produced more offense last night than Hodgy-Vanek-Winger X produced all season. It's most definitely possible to build through the draft without bottoming out. It was the suggestion that building through the draft leaves you as Edmonton or the Isles (who are in a pretty good spot now, no?) and thinking otherwise makes you a blind sheep that was hilarious to me.
Robviously Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Its what the sheep do, Darcy told us that a long rebuild through the draft with suffering was the way that dynasties are built like Pittsburgh. Yeah Participation, now less all sit down and eat our orange slices with the other team and tell them how much fun you had playing against them. 1. You don't sound smart calling other people "the sheep." You just sound like a conceited prick. Argue the point on its merits or don't bother. 2. "The sheep" doesn't even apply. Most of this board spent last year talking about the benefits of drafting high way before Regier ever did. It's most definitely possible to build through the draft without bottoming out. It was the suggestion that building through the draft leaves you as Edmonton or the Isles (who are in a pretty good spot now, no?) and thinking otherwise makes you a blind sheep that was hilarious to me. I can't believe we're still talking about this. The argument was NEVER that drafting high was the ONLY way to win in the NHL.
nfreeman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I can't believe we're still talking about this. The argument was NEVER that drafting high was the ONLY way to win in the NHL. Really? Amid all the yelling and exasperation with others disagreeing with you and lack of any support for your theories, I don't recall you putting forth a proposal on how to improve the Sabres other than tanking.
Weave Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Really? Amid all the yelling and exasperation with others disagreeing with you and lack of any support for your theories, I don't recall you putting forth a proposal on how to improve the Sabres other than tanking. At this point last season I was fully convinced that there was no other way but a tank job. Not enough 1st and 2nd line talent and no prospects of being able to trade for any. 3-4 years ago? We probably could have made a few player swaps, got 2-3 2nd line centers as a result, and did OK. I don't think it would have been Stanley Cup OK, but a competitive playoff team.
Doohicksie Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I watched the game with the Dallas announcers (local market for me). Their take on the Sabres was very sympathetic, at times almost pulling for them. Even after the third goal by Dallas, they said that Miller has been doing his best to keep the Sabres in games, etc. They had a lot of good to say about the Myers/Zadorov pairing and the youngins in general. They acknowledged the suffering but from their perspective as hockey analysts they painted a picture of a bright future coming for the Sabres.
MattPie Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 I can't believe we're still talking about this. The argument was NEVER that drafting high was the ONLY way to win in the NHL. Really? Amid all the yelling and exasperation with others disagreeing with you and lack of any support for your theories, I don't recall you putting forth a proposal on how to improve the Sabres other than tanking. Just to interject: tanking may not be the only way to win in the NHL, but it may be the only way the current Sabres can. Those two statements aren't as mutually exclusive as they might seem. The Sabres aren't Detroit where people want to go play because they're contenders (although I haven't heard about that lately).
SDS Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 Really? Amid all the yelling and exasperation with others disagreeing with you and lack of any support for your theories, I don't recall you putting forth a proposal on how to improve the Sabres other than tanking. How many theories can their possibly be? The bottom line in any theory is how can the team acquire elite talent. Until you lock that down - nothing else matters. In the draft, they give you players at the top. In a trade, you have to give to get. In FA you have to pray someone becomes available. The latter two depend on other teams and circumstance. The 1st one depends on no one else. In fact, the process of acquiring through the draft also helps your trading scenario because at least you have draft picks as valuable currency. Actually, I apologize for the off-topic post. I would like the community to start honoring the thread titles more strictly. This thread is to talk about last nights game, not rebuilding philosophies. As for last night's game. I found it very entertaining. I thought we looked very dangerous on offense at times. We were physical and looked fairly fast out there. The forecheck in the 2nd and 3rd periods was intense. It would be nice to see what the puck possession time was for each period and for the game.
Claude_Verret Posted October 29, 2013 Report Posted October 29, 2013 At this point last season I was fully convinced that there was no other way but a tank job. Not enough 1st and 2nd line talent and no prospects of being able to trade for any. 3-4 years ago? We probably could have made a few player swaps, got 2-3 2nd line centers as a result, and did OK. I don't think it would have been Stanley Cup OK, but a competitive playoff team. This is how I arrived to embrace the tank as well. Whether you are pro tank or not I think most of us do agree that Darcy should not be in charge of it. Still, with where this franchise is now I just don't see a new GM coming up with a much different plan going forward on how to improve this team. At this point you either put a few band aids on a festering flesh eating wound and continue on the treadmill of semi-mediocrity, or you cut out the infection and begin the healing process.
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