Vanek Traded to NYI for Matt Moulson, 1st in 2014 (or 2015!), 2nd in 2015; 4 Months Later: Moulson to MN for 2014/2016 2nd Rounders

[SwampD]

If you aren't a cynic, you probably don't want to know what goes on with these guys.

 

One of my best Uncle Vito stories ever is when I was informed from a firsthand party that an All-Star pitcher was curled up in a ball in his hotel with a bottle of rum, 4 hours from his start, because a girl he was "dating" had called him in the process of "dating" another HOF athlete. Sound effects and all....

 

He went out and got shelled for 7 runs in the first few innings.....

I'm not surprised at all. That's why I always get a chuckle when the Puritans chime in on matters like this

[JJFIVEOH]

Would this be a good time to bring up Dock Ellis?

[nfreeman]

I'm not surprised at all. That's why I always get a chuckle when the Puritans chime in on matters like this

 

Well, I don't think we've been discussing moral judgments here. The question is whether the bender impaired their performance. BTW, GoDD's anecdote doesn't support your side of it.

[JJFIVEOH]

 

 

 

Unless they found a wrinkle in time, they had 1 night and a little more than 24 hours to get right. And it's clear that they didn't.

 

Well then, based on how they performed the rest of the way, one can only assume they got drunk every night.

 

Ahhhh I agree with jjfiveoh! Ummm let me see how to fix this.

 

I bet miller could play drunk better than enroth could because enroths little boy body couldn't handle the alcohol as well.....

 

You're gonna have to try harder than that.

 

They both weigh the same, they would get drunk equally. :P

[LGR4GM]

I don't think it affects his rental trade value either. But as I mentioned previously, it reinforces my satisfaction that the Sabres didn't give him a $60MM contract. And I also think it will reduce the number of teams that are willing to break the bank for him in FA.

I am extremely happy they didn't give him that kind of money. I don't think Vanek is worth what he makes now but that is a different discussion.

[nucci]

Would this be a good time to bring up Dock Ellis?

Ha, nice. However, being hungover is much different than what Doc did.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

If you aren't a cynic, you probably don't want to know what goes on with these guys.

 

One of my best Uncle Vito stories ever is when I was informed from a firsthand party that an All-Star pitcher was curled up in a ball in his hotel with a bottle of rum, 4 hours from his start, because a girl he was "dating" had called him in the process of "dating" another HOF athlete. Sound effects and all....

 

He went out and got shelled for 7 runs in the first few innings.....

 

Good to see you still around.

 

Feared you may have been banned for that last post of yours.

 

Then again, chz isn't around as much.

[JJFIVEOH]

So no one here has ever had a hangover that lasts more than one day? Because I know I have.

 

What an athlete does to their body one day can affect it for days. This isn't the 70s anymore. These guys are in peak condition and on the strictest and most job benefiting diets. Getting schwasted on a Sunday night will definitely affect you on a Tuesday.

 

On the other hand, well trained athletes can get over a hangover much quicker. If you're out of shape and have a crappy diet, you're not going to get over a hnagover as quickly. If you're circulatory and respiratory system are in top shape, and you have a healthy diet, you're going to get over it much quicker. Especially when you consider the best way to get over a hangover is plenty of fluids and and heavy workout. Somebody that isn't healthy isn't going to be up for a heavy workout while hungover.

[SwampD]

Well, I don't think we've been discussing moral judgments here. The question is whether the bender impaired their performance. BTW, GoDD's anecdote doesn't support your side of it.

It doesn't counter it either. I have to believe there is a big difference between being bombed and depressed while playing, and getting drunk a day and a half earlier.

 

On a slightly related topic, wasn't there a pitcher in the 70s who threw a perfect game, then later admitted he was on LSD during the game?

[TrueBlueGED]

http://translate.goo...=UTF-8&u=http:/

%2Fsportnet.at%2Fhome%2Folympia2014%2F1564783%2FParty-statt-Eishockey_Einige-waren-so-betrunken-dass-sie-kaum

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how this could possibly be the case. Any human being's body is going to perform better with 2 good nights of rest than it will with one night's rest and one night's mega-binge.

 

So they were already so drunk they couldn't speak at 2:30, and managed to last another 3 and a half hours while drinking more? If they have that kind of tolerance, I'd imagine they'd be alright 30 hours later..and certainly not so inebriated as to cause a "win" to turn into a 4-0 loss.

 

It's worth pointing out that in this scenario, Thomas Vanek would have captained the Sabres closer to a Stanley Cup than they have ever been in their entire history.

 

As a big Vanek fan, I hate this story because it's not what you want from a mature leader. OTOH, pro athletes party pretty hard and it just comes with the territory. (Weren't the 2004 Red Sox drinking during games when they broke the curse?) I'm not convinced this actually affected the outcome or even slowed the Austrians down. Sometimes taking things too seriously can hurt you just as much as not taking them seriously enough. I doubt the Austrians hit the sweet spot here but I'm not opposed to them partying after a win either.

 

Absolutely agreed. I'd rather he (and others) didn't do this, but I think it's pretty naive to think Vanek is in some minority when it comes to this behavior.

 

I don't think it affects his rental trade value either. But as I mentioned previously, it reinforces my satisfaction that the Sabres didn't give him a $60MM contract. And I also think it will reduce the number of teams that are willing to break the bank for him in FA.

 

Did you at any point ever wish the Sabres had traded for Richards and/or Carter? You also wanted to throw bank at Phaneuf, who is dating (married to?) a smokin' hot actress and living in a major city...do you honestly think he never partied hard in close proximity to a game? Again, I wish players would have complete focus on their job and not do anything to hinder performance...but I think Vanek's behavior at the Olympics is much more the rule than the exception, it's just that we don't hear about every instance.

[beerme1]

 

I'm not surprised at all. That's why I always get a chuckle when the Puritans chime in on matters like this

 

Puritans and perhaps some outright commies!

 

[JJFIVEOH]

It doesn't counter it either. I have to believe there is a big difference between being bombed and depressed while playing, and getting drunk a day and a half earlier.

 

On a slightly related topic, wasn't there a pitcher in the 70s who threw a perfect game, then later admitted he was on LSD during the game?

Would this be a good time to bring up Dock Ellis?

...

[SwampD]

...

Thanks. I still hate baseball.

[Lanny]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/02/27/wells_hangover_ap/

[bunomatic]

Thomas who ?

[JJFIVEOH]

Thanks. I still hate baseball.

 

You and me both. I stopped following after the Jays back-to-backs. Although I did read David Wells' book, wouldn't surprise me if he's pitched more than one game half in the bag.

[nfreeman]

So they were already so drunk they couldn't speak at 2:30, and managed to last another 3 and a half hours while drinking more? If they have that kind of tolerance, I'd imagine they'd be alright 30 hours later..and certainly not so inebriated as to cause a "win" to turn into a 4-0 loss.

 

 

 

Absolutely agreed. I'd rather he (and others) didn't do this, but I think it's pretty naive to think Vanek is in some minority when it comes to this behavior.

 

 

 

Did you at any point ever wish the Sabres had traded for Richards and/or Carter? You also wanted to throw bank at Phaneuf, who is dating (married to?) a smokin' hot actress and living in a major city...do you honestly think he never partied hard in close proximity to a game? Again, I wish players would have complete focus on their job and not do anything to hinder performance...but I think Vanek's behavior at the Olympics is much more the rule than the exception, it's just that we don't hear about every instance.

 

It's certainly quite possible that the google translation of the Croatian TMZ was inaccurate. Either way, though, it was bad enough for the coach to speak out, and to single out Vanek -- and bad enough for the team to apologize.

 

As for their superhuman tolerance -- are you really in the camp that thinks this had no physical effect on them?

 

As for whether Vanek is in the minority -- I'm sure there are plenty of meatheads in the NHL who have done the same plenty of times. But team captains who would do this 28 hours before the biggest game of their lives? Would Drury in a million years have done this? Crosby? Lidstrom? Toews? Callahan?

 

And what does having a hot wife have to do with the likelihood of behaving in this manner?

[Taro T]

You and me both. I stopped following after the Jays back-to-backs. Although I did read David Wells' book, wouldn't surprise me if he's pitched more than one game half in the bag.

I stopped following at pretty much the same time, but I refer to it as when the Jays were defending champs 3 years in a row.

 

That strike killed the Expos and killed my love for the game.

[SabresBillsFan]

I would laugh if teams lowball snow for Vanek. I wouldn't overpay for a rental. I'm sure he has certain teams on his mind that he wants to play for at the end of season.

I also agree now with Tavares done I highly doubt we get there 2014 1st rounder. I just don't see the Islanders being any better in 2015 which gives us a great shot at McDavid with their pick. I hate to really say this but Regier looks like a genius in this trade . Snow should have never put Moulson in that package. But lucky us!

[TrueBlueGED]

It's certainly quite possible that the google translation of the Croatian TMZ was inaccurate. Either way, though, it was bad enough for the coach to speak out, and to single out Vanek -- and bad enough for the team to apologize.

 

As for their superhuman tolerance -- are you really in the camp that thinks this had no physical effect on them?

 

As for whether Vanek is in the minority -- I'm sure there are plenty of meatheads in the NHL who have done the same plenty of times. But team captains who would do this 28 hours before the biggest game of their lives? Would Drury in a million years have done this? Crosby? Lidstrom? Toews? Callahan?

 

And what does having a hot wife have to do with the likelihood of behaving in this manner?

 

I think 28 hours later it would have a minimal impact on them, and an even smaller impact on the outcome of the game. A couple players partying 28 hours before a game doesn't turn a win into a 4-0 loss.

 

I know for a fact Callahan has partied in the middle of back-to-backs. Would he in the Olympics? Who knows, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

The hot wife was just a "celebrities like to party" stereotype :)

[That Aud Smell]

I think 28 hours later it would have a minimal impact on them, and an even smaller impact on the outcome of the game. A couple players partying 28 hours before a game doesn't turn a win into a 4-0 loss.

I'm sort of surprised at your taking this position.

 

Like I said: Second day sickness.

 

And it wasn't a couple players--it was several. And even if it was just a couple, it was your country's best players, far and away.

 

I don't doubt this sort of nonsense occurs over an 82-game schedule and in the midst of a roadie. I, along with others here, heard of a visiting team this season who got rolled by the Sabres after several of their opponents (can't recall who--Flyers Sens?) were seen out in Williamsville getting bombed at 2:00 a.m.

 

But to do it in the midst of an Olympic tournament? Different story.

 

Anyway, when it comes to assessing whether and to what extent getting slurry-mouthed drunk until 6:00 a.m. the day before a noon game is something that will slow you down, I'm not thinking so much in the abstract, but am taking cues from the people closest to the team--people from the same culture, who know the players, who observed them the morning of the game (was TV still too sick to eat?), who saw them during warm-ups (Grabner, white as a sheet?), who observed/smelled them on the bench during the game (sweating off booze?)--and those people are livid.

 

 

[Weave]

Having just suffered through a 2 day hangover a couple weekends ago I'll fall on the side of, hell yeah you can be performance impaired two days after a serious tie on.

 

Do I give a rat's ass? Nah. Would I if it were the USA team? Probably not. Gotta be some seriously lousy tasting humble pie that Vanek is noshing on right now though.

[X. Benedict]

As I wrote, there is no way to make this look good. However jet lagged players sharing beers until 7am in their home country house when they might normally be out until 3 is really no big deal.

 

 

 

[That Aud Smell]

As I wrote, there is no way to make this look good. However jet lagged players sharing beers until 7am in their home country house when they might normally be out until 3 is really no big deal.

 

not unfair. however, they'd been in sochi for well over a week and were, i infer, on local time. also, can't-talk drunk usually involves stuff stronger than beer. thirdly, the reports were that they were out at a bar and drinking at their house.

 

but, whatever. like weave, i don't care what they do/did.

 

i was just joining issue on the idea of "NBD, this is standard stuff, no effect on their play."

[X. Benedict]

 

 

not unfair. however, they'd been in sochi for well over a week and were, i infer, on local time. also, can't-talk drunk usually involves stuff stronger than beer. thirdly, the reports were that they were out at a bar and drinking at their house.

 

but, whatever. like weave, i don't care what they do/did.

 

i was just joining issue on the idea of "NBD, this is standard stuff, no effect on their play."

I didn't see the can't talk drunk stuff.

Austrian scandals are kind of lame though.

 

Where are the tales of hookers and blow in Olympic village?

c'mon Vanek, the rule is if you are going to screw up go big!