Vanek Traded to NYI for Matt Moulson, 1st in 2014 (or 2015!), 2nd in 2015; 4 Months Later: Moulson to MN for 2014/2016 2nd Rounders

[nobody]

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2014/02/sabres-bruins-discussed-a-vanek-for-seguin-trade.html

[Hoss]

http://blogs.buffalo...guin-trade.html

 

That's a bombshell. But luckily, for my sanity, it seems to indicate that it was the Bruins that wouldn't do the deal.

[Robviously]

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2014/02/sabres-bruins-discussed-a-vanek-for-seguin-trade.html

Wow.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That would have been the perfect combo....Darcy at GM and Seguin-Hodgson-Ennis as your centers.

 

Thank you Darcy for going after picks. At least we have a shot.

[X. Benedict]

Reason to make that deal - Seguin is a player ---

53 24 30 54

12 in league

reason not to: He's a crappy citizen:

 

http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/22/tyler-seguin-cops-police-trash-talk-bad-boy-dallas-stars-boston-bruins/

[TrueBlueGED]

That would have been the perfect combo....Darcy at GM and Seguin-Hodgson-Ennis as your centers.

 

Thank you Darcy for going after picks. At least we have a shot.

 

You wouldn't want the guy currently 12th in the league in scoring? I'm beginning to think you actually do hate players with better than just above average talent level.

[Hoss]

You wouldn't want the guy currently 12th in the league in scoring? I'm beginning to think you actually do hate players with better than just above average talent level.

 

I think he was being sarcastic. Or at least I hope.

[deluca67]

Regier is gone, yet my hatred for him continues to grow. When Dallas made the deal I said at the time Seguin is the perfect type of player to start a rebuild with.

[dudacek]

When you look at Reilly and Morrow as the other Dallas pieces, you wonder what other pieces we were asked. Pysyk and Girgensons?

Seguin is a talent, and a great value for Vanek. But he's not the type of person I'd want to build around.

[nfreeman]

When you look at Reilly and Morrow as the other Dallas pieces, you wonder what other pieces we were asked. Pysyk and Girgensons?

Seguin is a talent, and a great value for Vanek. But he's not the type of person I'd want to build around.

 

That's what I was wondering too. Girgensons would have been tough to part with, but OTOH, Reilly Smith is 22, has played all 54 games for the Bruins and is their 2nd-leading scorer with 40 points in 54 games in less than 15 min per game. Morrow also looks like a respectable prospect -- probably better than McNabb. Hard to tell about Fraser but he's got good size and respectable scoring numbers in the AHL.

 

So: maybe Vanek, Ennis, Pysyk and Foligno? Vanek and Pysyk are probably a bit better than Eriksson and Morrow, while Smith is probably a bit better than Ennis. Foligno may be better than Fraser but it might be a wash.

 

One key point that the TBN item didn't bother to address is whether Vanek signing an extension with Boston was a condition to the deal. I kinda think that would've been critical from Boston's perspective. And it's very possible that Vanek refused to do so -- and that this refusal was the point that scuttled the deal, not DR's refusal to include player X.

 

IF Vanek were willing to sign the extension, and IF Boston would've taken the package I proposed, I would've made the deal.

Edited February 4, 2014 by nfreeman

[FolignosJock]

Ew I hate that deal. Sequin is a great player and i would love to have him on the team but there is no way in heck I am giving up Vanek and three young roster players.

[nfreeman]

Ew I hate that deal. Sequin is a great player and i would love to have him on the team but there is no way in heck I am giving up Vanek and three young roster players.

 

Well, the Sabres had to trade Vanek because he made it clear that he wasn't going to re-sign. So there is a limit on what you're going to get for him. As for the rest -- if you can trade a bunch of nickels and dimes for a dollar, you do it. The Sabres are dying for a guy like Seguin (post-behavioral shock therapy Seguin, that is).

[FolignosJock]

Well, the Sabres had to trade Vanek because he made it clear that he wasn't going to re-sign. So there is a limit on what you're going to get for him. As for the rest -- if you can trade a bunch of nickels and dimes for a dollar, you do it. The Sabres are dying for a guy like Seguin (post-behavioral shock therapy Seguin, that is).

 

I dont agree. Three roster players is too high of a cost. I would do it if it was Larsson Vanek JGL and ennis

[IKnowPhysics]

Boston wanted Seguin out, Boston hated when Vanek continuously murdered them in games, we wanted return for Vanek. I see it.

 

Sounds like Boston's price was too high. I don't fault Regier for not wanting to make moves that favor a division rival, especially those ######.

[apuszczalowski]

Wow, I would have figured a straight swap of Vanek for Seguin would have been an overpayment by Buffalo, but now everyone is throwing in additional players from the Sabres to make the deal? Vanek could have expressed that he wanted out and was not going to re-sign in Buffalo, but he still had a year left on his deal, and it was no secret the Bruins weren't happy with Seguin, so that would cancel out one team being desperate to move their guy.

[FolignosJock]

Wow, I would have figured a straight swap of Vanek for Seguin would have been an overpayment by Buffalo, but now everyone is throwing in additional players from the Sabres to make the deal? Vanek could have expressed that he wanted out and was not going to re-sign in Buffalo, but he still had a year left on his deal, and it was no secret the Bruins weren't happy with Seguin, so that would cancel out one team being desperate to move their guy.

 

 

look at what they got from Dallas. He was worth A LOT. I would still say the Dallas deal was better than the one I made with Vanek included. Yes vanek was the best player in that trade currently but in two to three years 3 of those guys will probably be outplaying him or at least worth more to their team

[nfreeman]

Wow, I would have figured a straight swap of Vanek for Seguin would have been an overpayment by Buffalo, but now everyone is throwing in additional players from the Sabres to make the deal? Vanek could have expressed that he wanted out and was not going to re-sign in Buffalo, but he still had a year left on his deal, and it was no secret the Bruins weren't happy with Seguin, so that would cancel out one team being desperate to move their guy.

 

Again, it all comes down to whether Vanek was willing to sign an extension with Boston as part of the deal. If not, his value was very limited.

[nobody]

Wow, I would have figured a straight swap of Vanek for Seguin would have been an overpayment by Buffalo, but now everyone is throwing in additional players from the Sabres to make the deal? Vanek could have expressed that he wanted out and was not going to re-sign in Buffalo, but he still had a year left on his deal, and it was no secret the Bruins weren't happy with Seguin, so that would cancel out one team being desperate to move their guy.

 

I think people are just swapping out the same number of Sabres that the Stars paid. I would think the Bruins were only looking to get Vanek and another on the team last year player. Darcy probably wanted something similar to what the Isles gave him.

[deluca67]

I dont agree. Three roster players is too high of a cost. I would do it if it was Larsson Vanek JGL and ennis

Where talking about the Sabres "roster." I doubt the Bruins could find three players on the Sabres roster they would want in return.

 

The Sabres will be lucky if one of their current "prospects" becomes the player Seguin is. Regier blew it big time. If you have the Bruins on the phone and they are even considering trading a 21 year old elite NHL forward, you don't let them hang up until you have a deal.

 

Again, it all comes down to whether Vanek was willing to sign an extension with Boston as part of the deal. If not, his value was very limited.

If Vanek wants to win a Cup, there aren't many teams that would give him a better chance than Boston.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

If Vanek is looking to be on a perennial cup contender, there are plenty of better places to look than Boston. Their window slams shut the second big Z hangs up the skates.....and that day is coming.

 

As for the trade, I think we got more value out of Vanek being dealt for a high #1, high #2, and whatever return Moulson gives us. If we traded 2 other young assets, the cupboard would be pretty bare for people who could step in next year. I'm laughing thinking of the general outrage of if Girgensons were traded to Boston and playing meaningful 3rd line minutes there.

[nfreeman]

Where talking about the Sabres "roster." I doubt the Bruins could find three players on the Sabres roster they would want in return.

 

The Sabres will be lucky if one of their current "prospects" becomes the player Seguin is. Regier blew it big time. If you have the Bruins on the phone and they are even considering trading a 21 year old elite NHL forward, you don't let them hang up until you have a deal.

 

If Vanek wants to win a Cup, there aren't many teams that would give him a better chance than Boston.

 

I agree with you generally about giving up "roster players," but I think you're exaggerating a bit.

 

As for whether Vanek would have signed an extension with Boston, I also agree that it would've been a great spot IF he wanted to win the Cup -- but it's quite likely that he wanted to get to UFA. I think this is the most likely explanation for the deal not happening, because I don't think Boston would give up Seguin for a package in which Vanek was the centerpiece without a contract extension being part of the deal.

 

 

If Vanek is looking to be on a perennial cup contender, there are plenty of better places to look than Boston. Their window slams shut the second big Z hangs up the skates.....and that day is coming.

 

As for the trade, I think we got more value out of Vanek being dealt for a high #1, high #2, and whatever return Moulson gives us. If we traded 2 other young assets, the cupboard would be pretty bare for people who could step in next year. I'm laughing thinking of the general outrage of if Girgensons were traded to Boston and playing meaningful 3rd line minutes there.

 

I think Chara will be an elite player for at least as many more years as Vanek is.

 

And I would absolutely trade the Islanders picks plus whatever they get for Moulson, plus more, for Seguin. The Sabres have far too much quantity and far too little quality.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

During the offseason there were reports of Seguin needing to be put up in a hotel with a guard during the playoffs so he wouldn't wander for entertainment. That's a huge risk that wasn't worth it in my opinion. Pretending Vanek, Pysyk, Girgensons gets that trade done, if it doesn't work out how bare is the cupboard? And it sounds funny, but is it bright to bring in a guy who had these problems in a town where bars close at 2am rather than 4?

[nfreeman]

During the offseason there were reports of Seguin needing to be put up in a hotel with a guard during the playoffs so he wouldn't wander for entertainment. That's a huge risk that wasn't worth it in my opinion. Pretending Vanek, Pysyk, Girgensons gets that trade done, if it doesn't work out how bare is the cupboard? And it sounds funny, but is it bright to bring in a guy who had these problems in a town where bars close at 2am rather than 4?

 

Well, getting traded seems to have slapped some sense into him. I'm sure there is at least as much trouble in Dallas for him to get into as there is in Buffalo, but he's still gotten his act together.

 

And, yes, it would've been a risk, although not really with Vanek since he was leaving anyway. Do you think Dallas is happy they took that risk?

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Well, getting traded seems to have slapped some sense into him. I'm sure there is at least as much trouble in Dallas for him to get into as there is in Buffalo, but he's still gotten his act together.

 

And, yes, it would've been a risk, although not really with Vanek since he was leaving anyway. Do you think Dallas is happy they took that risk?

 

Absolutely, they gambled and won. I'm trying to be fair in my own mind, looking at the deal as it would have been presented to Darcy at the time. There were very real, very dangerous red flags that came along with Seguin at the time, and it appears we were being asked to mortgage the future for his talent. It's a horrible comparison because Milbury was involved, but Yashin being dealt to the Island was the same type of risk, and that set a franchise back for probably 5 years.

 

I'm biased in that I'm on board with the rebuilding plan as currently being sold by management. Acquire multiple high selections, draft well and let them pan out or fizzle. In addition, we can acquire 2 Seguin like talents in the next two years for free. Well, almost free - we need to watch waiver wire pickups playing the power play for us.....but I think you get the point. Haha.

[deluca67]

If Vanek is looking to be on a perennial cup contender, there are plenty of better places to look than Boston. Their window slams shut the second big Z hangs up the skates.....and that day is coming.

 

As for the trade, I think we got more value out of Vanek being dealt for a high #1, high #2, and whatever return Moulson gives us. If we traded 2 other young assets, the cupboard would be pretty bare for people who could step in next year. I'm laughing thinking of the general outrage of if Girgensons were traded to Boston and playing meaningful 3rd line minutes there.

I think Vanek is smart enough to know that the Bruins are more than Chara. Put Vanek with that group of forwards and they go from contender to favorite.

 

Absolutely, they gambled and won. I'm trying to be fair in my own mind, looking at the deal as it would have been presented to Darcy at the time. There were very real, very dangerous red flags that came along with Seguin at the time, and it appears we were being asked to mortgage the future for his talent. It's a horrible comparison because Milbury was involved, but Yashin being dealt to the Island was the same type of risk, and that set a franchise back for probably 5 years.

 

I'm biased in that I'm on board with the rebuilding plan as currently being sold by management. Acquire multiple high selections, draft well and let them pan out or fizzle. In addition, we can acquire 2 Seguin like talents in the next two years for free. Well, almost free - we need to watch waiver wire pickups playing the power play for us.....but I think you get the point. Haha.

That's wishful thinking. How many top picks have the Oilers had, none of which are the player Seguin is.