Vanek Traded to NYI for Matt Moulson, 1st in 2014 (or 2015!), 2nd in 2015; 4 Months Later: Moulson to MN for 2014/2016 2nd Rounders

[CallawaySabres]

If we can't flip Moulson by the deadline, it's not a great deal for us either unfortunately.

 

If the Isles get something good for Vanek, they can basically come out even.

 

Why in the world would we not be able to flip Moulson? This injury will have no effect on him being traded. The top 5 pick this year from the Isle or the possibility of a lottery pick (next year) automatically makes Buffalo win this deal. The best deal the Isle will get for Vanek is going to be a 1st round pick (and not a great one)

Edited February 3, 2014 by CallawaySabres

[LTS]

It's true what others are saying: They now have what is arguably the best seller's asset on the deadline market.

 

I wonder if they'll look to get a 2015 first rounder as part of a deal for Vanek, which would take the sting out of granting their 2015 pick to the Sabres.

 

Unless Vanek goes to a team that will be a contender this year and be out of the playoffs next year the Islanders are still going to feel the sting.

 

this is my guess. also, even if we dont trade moulson, we can still sign him. which i think still puts us in the win column.

 

The Islanders can also sign Moulson, which puts them in the win column, doesn't it? The Sabres could sign Vanek. Hell, the Sabres could sign Moulson and Vanek.

 

Right now the Sabres and Islanders are battling to sell some of the best deadline assets. It could be interesting to see how that works. Teams could be playing the Islanders against the Sabres in terms of driving the deal down to begin with and then the team that loses out on Vanek or Moulson may suddenly turn around and overpay to get the remaining asset.

[darksabre]

Why in the world would we not be able to flip Moulson? This injury will have no effect on him being traded. The top 5 pick this year from the Isle or the possibility of a lottery pick (next year) automatically makes Buffalo win this deal. The best deal the Isle will get for Vanek is going to be a 1st round pick (and not a great one)

 

Why would the injury not have an effect on him being traded? What team is going to take on rental salary for a hurt player?

[Robviously]

Why in the world would we not be able to flip Moulson? This injury will have no effect on him being traded. The top 5 pick this year from the Isle or the possibility of a lottery pick (next year) automatically makes Buffalo win this deal. The best deal the Isle will get for Vanek is going to be a 1st round pick (and not a great one)

1. Can you trade a hurt player?

2. What can you get for a hurt player as a rental?

 

They need him to come back and play before the deadline. Right now we don't even know what's wrong.

[Koomkie]

Unless Vanek goes to a team that will be a contender this year and be out of the playoffs next year the Islanders are still going to feel the sting.

 

 

 

The Islanders can also sign Moulson, which puts them in the win column, doesn't it? The Sabres could sign Vanek. Hell, the Sabres could sign Moulson and Vanek.

 

Right now the Sabres and Islanders are battling to sell some of the best deadline assets. It could be interesting to see how that works. Teams could be playing the Islanders against the Sabres in terms of driving the deal down to begin with and then the team that loses out on Vanek or Moulson may suddenly turn around and overpay to get the remaining asset.

very good point, i keep forgetting this, and this is truly possible. all indications are that we are going to sell moulson, and if for some reason we cannot, we are going to sign him. that is the way i had read TMs comments on the UFAs. i guess we will see. either way, i dont think we lose is more of what i wanted to say.

 

1. Can you trade a hurt player?

2. What can you get for a hurt player as a rental?

 

They need him to come back and play before the deadline. Right now we don't even know what's wrong.

wasnt raffi torres injured when we traded for him? hurt wrist or something?

[CallawaySabres]

Why would the injury not have an effect on him being traded? What team is going to take on rental salary for a hurt player?

 

From what I am hearing, he will be fine by the trade deadline.

[Assquatch]

wasnt raffi torres injured when we traded for him? hurt wrist or something?

 

Dominic Moore also?

[darksabre]

From what I am hearing, he will be fine by the trade deadline.

 

I would hope so. But that doesn't mean the uncertainty of his current status isn't hurting talks for him right now.

[nfreeman]

Why in the world would we not be able to flip Moulson? This injury will have no effect on him being traded. The top 5 pick this year from the Isle or the possibility of a lottery pick (next year) automatically makes Buffalo win this deal. The best deal the Isle will get for Vanek is going to be a 1st round pick (and not a great one)

 

So you've seen his MRI and you know with certainty that he doesn't have a broken arm or separated shoulder?

 

this is my guess. also, even if we dont trade moulson, we can still sign him. which i think still puts us in the win column.

 

Only if he wants to sign with the worst team in the NHL in a city with high taxes and brutal winters. So it's not exactly accurate to say that we "can" sign him.

 

very good point, i keep forgetting this, and this is truly possible. all indications are that we are going to sell moulson, and if for some reason we cannot, we are going to sign him. that is the way i had read TMs comments on the UFAs. i guess we will see. either way, i dont think we lose is more of what i wanted to say.

 

What indications are there that he is going to sign here?

[LGR4GM]

Chris Nichols ‏@Nichols_NHLPool

Vanek's agent tells @KatieStrangESPN winger is "strongly leaning" toward testing free agent market. Hasn't shut door on #Isles in future.

[Hoss]

 

1. Can you trade a hurt player?

2. What can you get for a hurt player as a rental?

 

They need him to come back and play before the deadline. Right now we don't even know what's wrong.

 

You can trade somebody not on IR. I don't even think we did that.

[JJFIVEOH]

If we can't flip Moulson by the deadline, it's not a great deal for us either unfortunately.

 

If the Isles get something good for Vanek, they can basically come out even.

 

It's not a great deal? We get a high 1st round pick AND a 1st line forward. I hope you're referring to the possibility that Moulson isn't traded and we lose him to free agency. Because if he re-signs I think it was a great deal, and I think he could be a big part of the future of this team.

[Robviously]

It's not a great deal? We get a high 1st round pick AND a 1st line forward. I hope you're referring to the possibility that Moulson isn't traded and we lose him to free agency. Because if he re-signs I think it was a great deal, and I think he could be a big part of the future of this team.

Yes, I am referring to the possibility that Moulson isn't traded AND we lose him via free agency. I don't think he has any reason to re-sign with us, even if we offer him the most money. He's older than Vanek. And much like Vanek and Miller, it should be about winning for him at this stage of his career. Why should he want to spend the next few years playing to get high draft picks?

 

We also have not received a "high" 1st round pick for Vanek yet. It's a 1st round pick but we don't know if it will be "high." The Isles can defer to next year and there's no guarantee they'll be terrible again next year. Things change quickly in sports and the Islanders are a big market team that probably wants to put a competitive team out on the ice for their move to Brooklyn. They'll probably defer to next year on the draft pick and then do everything in their power to make sure they don't hit rock bottom.

[JJFIVEOH]

Yes, I am referring to the possibility that Moulson isn't traded AND we lose him via free agency. I don't think he has any reason to re-sign with us, even if we offer him the most money. He's older than Vanek. And much like Vanek and Miller, it should be about winning for him at this stage of his career. Why should he want to spend the next few years playing to get high draft picks?

 

We also have not received a "high" 1st round pick for Vanek yet. It's a 1st round pick but we don't know if it will be "high." The Isles can defer to next year and there's no guarantee they'll be terrible again next year. Things change quickly in sports and the Islanders are a big market team that probably wants to put a competitive team out on the ice for their move to Brooklyn. They'll probably defer to next year on the draft pick and then do everything in their power to make sure they don't hit rock bottom.

 

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

 

Besides the fact that somebody already mentioned they want to stay, some players might prefer a role on a team like BFLO. Teams don't stay successful forever, if they bolt for a better team there is a chance they might be in a downfall. Here, they've already hit rock bottom. Guys like Moulson and Ott know that they will be THE key guys in this team moving forward. Here, they will be in the limelight. On other teams they may just be another player on that team. I just don't see why some people get the impression that players wouldn't come (or stay) to/in BFLO if their lives depended on it. Personally, I'd rather be a part of a team that has nowhere to go but up, with an owner and management that will do anything to make it happen. I'd rather be a part of a team that wins a Cup knowing that I had a lot to do with it, rather than coming over as a rental. If I were in my mid to late 30's it might be a different story. But if I still had 7-10 years left in my career...... no.

[LTS]

Without doing intricate quoting..

 

I think what has been said is that the Sabres would be open to signing Moulson. They have to gauge his interest and like was rumored in the Vanek situation, they make an offer and see if he bites. He may not.

 

Then the most likely of scenarios is that he is moved. But the GM is going to tell him again, we'll offer you this. If you can't get a better deal out there, come on back.

 

I can't quote anyone right now or find a source but analysts have spoken about this happening with UFAs who aren't traded away (ie. one's on winning teams). The GM says, okay.. we're that close to the deadline, you want to test the market, go for it. Let us know the offer you get and give us a chance to match it. This is where we are going and we want you on board, but we understand if you find a better scenario. No guarantees, but the team and player have a pretty good understanding. Dan Cleary was stated to be an example of that this year. (certainly less star power)

 

If you are Vanek and you only get a great offer from Edmonton, are you going there? Now, with the salary cap going up so much next year I think that point is mitigated.

[nfreeman]

I think Vanek is going to have multiple suitors offering him $8MM+ per year.

[Stoner]

I think Vanek is going to have multiple suitors offering him $8MM+ per year.

 

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

[Robviously]

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

He already has tens of millions of dollars. He can definitely take less to go play where he wants to play.

 

I'm amazed more guys don't do this. But then again money makes people weird and there's a big ego/emotional component to these negotiations.

[X. Benedict]

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

 

I don't think so.

 

But what do i know. Just a perception.

Edited February 3, 2014 by X. Benedict

[Hoss]

 

 

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

 

I think he'll consider it, but if a good team in a good city offers him a big deal I don't think he'll pass it up. Minnesota could obviously be that team.

[That Aud Smell]

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

 

I think there is. I don't think the discount would be significant, but I think he'd take marginally less in order to play where he wants to play.

[nfreeman]

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

 

Sure -- who knows what lurks in the hearts of men?

 

I guess it really depends on how much of a discount it ends up being. I think he's looking at something like a $60MM payday if he goes to the highest bidder -- and there will probably be better teams than the Wild bidding that high. Might he give them a $10MM discount? Who knows? I doubt he would give them a $20MM discount, but again, who knows?

 

I think he'll consider it, but if a good team in a good city offers him a big deal I don't think he'll pass it up. Minnesota could obviously be that team.

 

Minny could be that team, but they are very much a bubble team -- they are going to be fighting it out with Vancouver and Phoenix for the last 2 spots in the West -- and they've lost their goaltender and 12 of their last 21. In other words, if going to a true contender is a high priority for him, Minny doesn't fit the bill.

Edited February 3, 2014 by nfreeman

[Weave]

Just spitballing here. But is another scenario that Vanek, having already hit the jackpot once, and with tens of millions in the bank (one would hope), will take a "hometown discount" to play in Minny?

 

The way I read Vanek's comments last season and this one, he's not looking to go home. He's looking to win in the playoffs.

[Hoss]

Sure -- who knows what lurks in the hearts of men?

Minny could be that team, but they are very much a bubble team -- they are going to be fighting it out with Vancouver and Phoenix for the last 2 spots in the West -- and they've lost their goaltender and 12 of their last 21. In other words, if going to a true contender is a high priority for him, Minny doesn't fit the bill.

 

Well I would consider teams that may become contenders by adding him in that group.

[dudacek]

GMTM's one-year plan:

Vanek Hodgson Callahan

Moulson Ennis Girgensons

Ott Reinhart Stafford

Larsson McCormick Kaleta

Ehrhoff Risto

Myers Orpik

McNabb Pysyk

Miller

Enroth

(Insert winking emoticon here)