Vanek Traded to NYI for Matt Moulson, 1st in 2014 (or 2015!), 2nd in 2015; 4 Months Later: Moulson to MN for 2014/2016 2nd Rounders

[nfreeman]

My bad. For some reason I thought they won it when they were the #1 seed two years ago. The 'Nucks edged them out by 2 points. The point remains they went from 1st in the East, to 6th, and now to 13th at this moment (and yes, I know he's injured). Pominville regularly got ripped for not elevating the team, and yet it seems Callahan isn't held to that standard--it's enough that he plays a style people want to see here.

 

Respectfully, I don't think It's just a question of style. The year Callahan was named captain, they went from bubble playoff team to #1 in the EC. They dropped to #6 last year, but I kinda think last year was a strange year league-wide and for the Rangers in particular (and that Slats mighta made too many big moves based on an abbreviated season).

 

I'll also say that Callahan would've responded forcefully in a Lucic-Miller situation, unlike Pommer.

 

And for the record, I wish Pommer were still here, although I didn't like him being captain and I really didn't like his contract.

 

You're right that Callahan is hurt this year -- I forgot about his recent injury. Still, though, it's not a TC-level of injuries.

[Hoss]

1) Darcy is out of his mind. There are 50-100 players in skill level and age that are worth more than Vanek.

 

I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements on here, and this is most likely the worst. Not even close to the right number.

[Nitro60]

Happy for Vanek. He did the best he could for 10 years with the Sabres. Not the best on defense in his own end. Good trade but would have liked another body instead of a draft pick.

[Trettioåtta]

I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements on here, and this is most likely the worst. Not even close to the right number.

 

1 Crosby

2 Stamkos

3 Sedin

4 Ovi

5 Marleau

6 Kessel

7 St Louis

8 Couture

9 Duchene

10 Perry

11 Tavares

12 Thornton

13 Toews

14 Zetterberg

15 Datsyuk

16 Getzlaf

17 Sedin

18 Backstrom

19 Spezza

20 Benn

21 Subban

22 Kopitar

23 Sequin

24 Karlsson

25 Malkin

26 Parise

27 Kane

28 Ryan

29 OEL

30 Pietrangelo

31 Kronwall

32 Suter

33 Weber

34 Keith

35 Shattenkirk

36 Doughty

37 Seabrook

38 Niemi

39 Quick

40 Rask

41 Luongo

42 Rinne

43 Miller

44 Lundqvist

45 Giroux

46 Staal

47 Hall

48 Nash

49 Koivu

50 Kovalchuk (if still around)

51 Eriksson

52 Chara

[beerme1]

I'm really not upset at all about Moulson wearing #26 given Vanek's willingness to always do what's in his best interest. Number one being signing the offer sheet with the Oil seven years ago in order to maximize his earnings and secondly not wanting to hang around the organization as they go through rough waters. I totally understand his mindset in each scenario, but he's not an all time beloved Sabre IMO.

 

Truly enjoyed him as a Sabre, but he's always kind of had the mercenary attitude. Next!

 

I agree with all of this. People seem to fail to realize he signed the offer sheet to leave. He was leaving. He didn't come back to the team and say look this is what I've got or anything just signed. So none of the current situation should surprise anyone. I did enjoy some of his time and often felt let down by him. As good as he is you there's more that he can give but chooses to coast etc. Good luck TV.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Thank you ThirtyEight.....and when you consider salary and age as well....

 

I want to rub Vanek's head. Darcy gave him 40% over his value for 7 years, and offered to do it again. Unbelievable.

[Huckleberry]

Not even if Luca Brasi attended the negotiations on the Sabres behalf.

 

yeah but you would love that line :D

[IKnowPhysics]

Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary.

[Iron Crotch]

I agree with all of this. People seem to fail to realize he signed the offer sheet to leave. He was leaving. He didn't come back to the team and say look this is what I've got or anything just signed. So none of the current situation should surprise anyone. I did enjoy some of his time and often felt let down by him. As good as he is you there's more that he can give but chooses to coast etc. Good luck TV.

 

F Vanek, I like Moulson better. :P

(I'm only half kidding, I always really liked Matt Moulson.)

 

Vanek never seemed like the "heart and soul" guy who wills his team to a championship through blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just never got the impression he was that sort of player. Talented for sure, but if he wants out, he wants out. Build around guys who want to be a Sabre.

[Hoss]

1 Crosby

2 Stamkos

3 Sedin

4 Ovi

5 Marleau

6 Kessel

7 St Louis

8 Couture

9 Duchene

10 Perry

11 Tavares

12 Thornton

13 Toews

14 Zetterberg

15 Datsyuk

16 Getzlaf

17 Sedin

18 Backstrom

19 Spezza

20 Benn

21 Subban

22 Kopitar

23 Sequin

24 Karlsson

25 Malkin

26 Parise

27 Kane

28 Ryan

29 OEL

30 Pietrangelo

31 Kronwall

32 Suter

33 Weber

34 Keith

35 Shattenkirk

36 Doughty

37 Seabrook

38 Niemi

39 Quick

40 Rask

41 Luongo

42 Rinne

43 Miller

44 Lundqvist

45 Giroux

46 Staal

47 Hall

48 Nash

49 Koivu

50 Kovalchuk (if still around)

51 Eriksson

52 Chara

 

Keep going and get it closer to 100 and then I'll relax. Because that was more what I was calling out. It's somewhere between 40-70. Nowhere near 100.

 

Koivu (age), Eriksson (talent), Shattenkirk (position), OEL (position), Seguin (still unproven), Backstrom (talent) are not worth more than Vanek.

 

The point wasn't wrong, but the number was an exaggeration.

 

Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary.

 

There is no "maximum salary." Nobody is paying him over $8 mill. I'd expect him to get something like 7 years, $49 mill or 8 and $53 million or so if extending.

Edited October 29, 2013 by DStebb

[ALF]

We over paid Vanek and he still didn't want to be here. Moulson has similar stats for a lot less pay and wants to be here from a suburb of Toronto, plus we get a 1st and 2nd. Great job by Darcy. Now sign him long term (Ott also)

[ubkev]

We over paid Vanek and he still didn't want to be here. Moulson has similar stats for a lot less pay and wants to be here from a suburb of Toronto, plus we get a 1st and 2nd. Great job by Darcy. Now sign him long term (Ott also)

 

Who says Moulson wants to be here? He's a UFA in a couple months. He'll be 30 and hes never been on a winner.

 

"Hey Matt, its Darcy! Hey are you cool with not making g the playoff til you're 37? See we have all these draft picks and...hello?"

 

Edit: and trade Ott too.

Edited October 29, 2013 by ubkev

[inkman]

There is no "maximum salary." Nobody is paying him over $8 mill. I'd expect him to get something like 7 years, $49 mill or 8 and $53 million or so if extending.

Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary.

 

He's probably worth 6 for $45....someone will give him 7 for $56 if a crap team...and 7 for $50 if good. The Sabres would have had to give him 7 for $69 if reports are correct....

 

That's apesh!t crazy!!!

[Iron Crotch]

We traded a malcontent in Vanek for a guy who has scored more goals over the last few years, is less injury prone, and is less than 1/2 of Vanek's cap hit. Plus, we got a 1st and a 2nd. So if there was any way to resign Moulson for a reasonable amount (doubtful, but you never know). And, if the Isles tank with Vanek (doubtful, but you never know). Then, we'd get a cheaper goal scorer who wants to be here plus a nice 1st round pick to add to our surefire top-5 pick.

[Hoss]

Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max?

 

Well there is a max, but Vanek isn't getting it. So I just pushed it aside.

 

We traded a malcontent in Vanek for a guy who has scored more goals over the last few years, is less injury prone, and is less than 1/2 of Vanek's cap hit. Plus, we got a 1st and a 2nd. So if there was any way to resign Moulson for a reasonable amount (doubtful, but you never know). And, if the Isles tank with Vanek (doubtful, but you never know). Then, we'd get a cheaper goal scorer who wants to be here plus a nice 1st round pick to add to our surefire top-5 pick.

 

While I seriously doubt Moulson will want to stick around, I would love to have him. I wonder if something similar to Pominville's deal gets him to stick around. I won't mind overpaying him for multiple reasons:

1. Give Hodgson somebody to build confidence and skill with.

2. Have to get to the cap floor, so it's okay to overpay in a rebuild.

 

But imagine if Moulson plays at a high-level here and doesn't want to be around? We might get another first and a top prospect out of it. He'll have proven that he isn't just a product of JT.

[Iron Crotch]

While I seriously doubt Moulson will want to stick around, I would love to have him.

 

On NHL radio today they were joking that maybe having grandparents an hour up the road in Mississauga is enough to keep Moulson around (he has two young kids, one is a newborn I think?).

[LoveAndWarrener]

I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced.

 

We don't need to tar and feather a guy just because he's left town. Thank him for his service and move on. He's been an excellent Sabre.

[Hoss]

On NHL radio today they were joking that maybe having grandparents an hour up the road in Mississauga is enough to keep Moulson around (he has two young kids, one is a newborn I think?).

 

Buffalo is a great family city. Just not sure if Moulson is the type of guy who just wants to win. He's already spent his entire career in a rebuild. It takes a special kind of guy to not mind going through that again. If he extends in Buffalo there's a solid chance he'll never win while playing at a high level.

[Iron Crotch]

I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced.

 

 

Malcontent in that you can't leave a guy on your roster for 3/4 of a year when everyone in the room knows he doesn't want to be there. That Vanek wanted out was the worst kept secret in the world. IMHO, you are best off with guys like that out of the room sooner rather than later (certainly Darcy could have moved him this summer).

[Nitro60]

If I was Vanek, I would not want to go through a 3 or 4 year rebuild at this stage of his career. He will become a Free Agent at the end of the season and all indications are that he wants to finish his career with Minnesota. Good luck to him and thanks for the time with the Sabres. He was a consistent player and tougher than what folks think. Time to the page for the Sabres.

[IKnowPhysics]

There is no "maximum salary."

Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max?

Well there is a max, but Vanek isn't getting it. So I just pushed it aside.

 

Apologies, brain fart in my end. I incorrectly assumed for some reason the max was about $8.5-9.0M. That's the number I was thinking.

 

Yes, there's a max, the individual salary cap is 20% of the team salary cap (20% of $64.3M is $12.86M). I knew that percentage too, I just didn't think to doublecheck my thinking above.

 

Interesting concept that I hadn't seen discussed, one that I overlooked. If Vanek doesn't resign on the Island before the deadline, the Islanders will likely try to move him (just as we would with Matt Moulson), and I'm guessing that they could* recoup their picks.

 

*Large presumption that Snow is at least of Feaster-grade intelligence.

[Huckleberry]

yeah but vanek is less "moveable" because of his huge contract. And they won't move him if he and tavares find chemistry and are in a playoff spot.

[wjag]

I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced.

 

We don't need to tar and feather a guy just because he's left town. Thank him for his service and move on. He's been an excellent Sabre.

 

:thumbsup:

 

We can be a bitter bunch when we want to be.

 

This was the right move for everyone involved.

 

When they sent Gaustad out the door, the die was cast. It was only a matter of time.

[kishoph]

Vanek: "I enjoyed my time there, but I didn’t want to be a part of that.”

 

Thanks Tommy.

I really can't blame him. He is in his prime, and in Buffalo he's never really had the A team of line-mates.

 

He was probably more gracious than he needed to be.

 

Vanek could of milked the Sabres and Darcy of a big contract to finish up his career, I give him credit for wanting to be somewhere where winning is going to be more important to him than being paid more money.