Official 2014 NHL Draft thread

[qwksndmonster]

Man this tank is getting embarrassing. We are so far behind 29th. I would be seriously shocked if we got the Isles pick this year. That said, don't just look at it by numbers. If the Isles think that they could draft a better prospect at number 10 next year compared to number 3/4 this year, they might do it.

 

In other news, I just discovered that Brendan Perlini was born like 30 mins from where I live. So I now hope we get him as well :P

Good thinking. That way you wont have to commute to see the cup when we win it.

[LGR4GM]

Kempe is playing today for the MODO J20 teams playoff game. They are up 3-0 and he has one of the goals.

Good. He should be a dominate play in J20 there. As mid September 96 birthday he could be the youngest guy in the draft. Seeing him play well at 17 is a good sign going forward. If we get St Louis' pick I hope he is there. May go around 15-20 but he would be someone I would target.

Edited March 19, 2014 by LGR4GM

[HopefulFuture]

The Sabers are sure to get elite talent this draft and next as well as more supporting cast players.

 

The issue about changes to the draft will have a minimal impact on the first statement.

 

It's not a tank. It's a rebuild. Know the difference please.

 

The road back to playoff hockey will be longer than many on here choose to except. But if done correctly could conceivably produce a dynasty.

 

Rebuild away Mr Pegula, God speed and good luck.

[Hoss]

The Sabers are sure to get elite talent this draft and next as well as more supporting cast players.

 

The issue about changes to the draft will have a minimal impact on the first statement.

 

It's not a tank. It's a rebuild. Know the difference please.

 

The road back to playoff hockey will be longer than many on here choose to except. But if done correctly could conceivably produce a dynasty.

 

Rebuild away Mr Pegula, God speed and good luck.

 

A tank is a form of a rebuild.

[3putt]

A tank is a form of a rebuild.

Not necessarily. Take Detroit for example. With all their injuries they could have thrown in the towel early, ir'ed a bunch of players and wrote the season off and gotten a good pick. They wouldn't have turnover the roster or move assets. To me that's a tank. Looking at your roster and saying these guys aren't cutting it and unloading. them all is a rebuild. Yes losing and high draft position can come with it, but it is a logical way to go.

[Hoss]

Not necessarily. Take Detroit for example. With all their injuries they could have thrown in the towel early, ir'ed a bunch of players and wrote the season off and gotten a good pick. They wouldn't have turnover the roster or move assets. To me that's a tank. Looking at your roster and saying these guys aren't cutting it and unloading. them all is a rebuild. Yes losing and high draft position can come with it, but it is a logical way to go.

 

Rebuilds have multiple forms/strategies... Hence why I pointed out that a tank is one of them.

Detroit may have taken a different route, but that doesn't mean other routes aren't available.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Assquatch]

Regier certainly didn't ask for Snow to have the ability to push the pick into 2015 if the 2014 pick was too good. Snow asked for that condition because he intends on using it. If the condition is met that allows the Islanders to defer the pick given to the Sabres to 2015, they will (in my opinion).

[LastPommerFan]

Not necessarily. Take Detroit for example. With all their injuries they could have thrown in the towel early, ir'ed a bunch of players and wrote the season off and gotten a good pick. They wouldn't have turnover the roster or move assets. To me that's a tank. Looking at your roster and saying these guys aren't cutting it and unloading. them all is a rebuild. Yes losing and high draft position can come with it, but it is a logical way to go.

 

Yes, what the colts did after Manning's surgery to get Luck is a tank in its purest form. The sabres are just bad and got worse trading assets for futures.

[Huckleberry]

Liger seems a bit out of touch with this draft.

 

Claimed that Reinhart is as good as MacKinnon and that Dal Colle could play an have an impact immediately. Reinhart is the only player, by most accounts, that would be able to step in immediately from this draft.

 

I'm probably one of few, but i grade bennet and Draisaitl higher than reinhart, and i hope murray sees that to. Then again i've only seen limited play of them all so :P

Edited March 20, 2014 by Heimdall

[...]

This draft talk is all academic (at best). The reality is that the Sabres' offensive prospect pool is full of third-liners, and regardless of changes to the rules, there is only a certain percentage chance of landing a franchise player. If the Sabres do land a franchise player, they are still without genuine first and second line talent for three plus years ( factoring in development).

 

This is an utterly ridiculous, long term gamble that no one with sense could possibly look at and be content with. I anticipate a lot of activity by GMTM over the next year.

[Brawndo]

Not necessarily. Take Detroit for example. With all their injuries they could have thrown in the towel early, ir'ed a bunch of players and wrote the season off and gotten a good pick. They wouldn't have turnover the roster or move assets. To me that's a tank. Looking at your roster and saying these guys aren't cutting it and unloading. them all is a rebuild. Yes losing and high draft position can come with it, but it is a logical way to go.

 

The rebuild will need FAs to supplement the draft choices. Pittsburgh and Chicago did not become a popular destination until Crosby, Malkin, Toews and Kane arrived. Detroit's success over the past 20 years is a phenomenal recruiting tool.

 

The Sabres have tried recruiting FAs with variable success. The talent that comes with picking at the top of the draft should help change the perception of Buffalo.

[HopefulFuture]

 

 

A tank is a form of a rebuild.

 

Selling off assets to secure future assets is what I just witnessed with the Sabers. So it made them a bottom team, they've made the playoffs so few times since 07 it had to be done. But I believe the target always has been future assets not to be the bottom club.

[Brawndo]

Not sure if this was posted. Nice article about Reinhart

 

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/calgary-flames/Johnson+National+Hockey+League+draft/9637855/story.html

[Hoss]

 

This is an utterly ridiculous, long term gamble that no one with sense could possibly look at and be content with. I anticipate a lot of activity by GMTM over the next year.

 

You just called A LOT of people senseless with that whiny paragraph.

[...]

 

 

You just called A LOT of people senseless with that whiny paragraph.

 

I don't give a sh*t, dude, it's the truth. You're so happy to watch this team fail and to what end? None of the projections for the future that are based on tanking and the draft make sense within a time frame of within 5 years.

 

 

[Robviously]

This draft talk is all academic (at best). The reality is that the Sabres' offensive prospect pool is full of third-liners, and regardless of changes to the rules, there is only a certain percentage chance of landing a franchise player. If the Sabres do land a franchise player, they are still without genuine first and second line talent for three plus years ( factoring in development).

 

This is an utterly ridiculous, long term gamble that no one with sense could possibly look at and be content with. I anticipate a lot of activity by GMTM over the next year.

I see a bunch of guys with top six potential: Girgensons, Grigorenko, Armia, Compher, Hurley, Baptiste, Fasching, Bailey, Carrier.

 

And at least one hockey writer thinks we have the best system in the game right now:

@BuffaloSabres

#Sabres' prospect pool ranked No. 1 in the @NHL, post-trade deadline, by columnist @JonathanWillis - http://bit.ly/1nC9Zqd

So someone is way off here.

 

Personally, I'd rather take my chances on the ridiculous, long-term gamble than stick with the status quo that took us nowhere for a ridiculous, long-term stretch of six seasons after Black Sunday. That's just me though. I'm senseless.

[3putt]

5 years is the outer limit. The Avs did it more quickly, but still followed the same recipe.

[Robviously]

I'm probably one of few, but i grade bennet and Draisaitl higher than reinhart, and i hope murray sees that to. Then again i've only seen limited play of them all so :P

Draisaitl wouldn't shock me given Murray's emphasis on "big bodies." He's 6'2" and 200+ pounds already.

 

I like what I hear bits of what I hear about all the highest-ranked forwards. I don't know which one is the "right" one. Right now I just hope GMTM lives up to the hype he gets for talent evaluation in the draft.

[Hoss]

 

 

I don't give a sh*t, dude, it's the truth. You're so happy to watch this team fail and to what end? None of the projections for the future that are based on tanking and the draft make sense within a time frame of within 5 years.

 

None. Five years is not enough time.

It took the Penguins four years to win the stanley cup after picking first overall and the Blackhawks three, and the Kings won it four years after selecting second overall. It took the Avs a year to become contenders after picking first overall.

 

Those are all way more than five years and unbearable lengths of time.

[...]

 

Personally, I'd rather take my chances on the ridiculous, long-term gamble than stick with the status quo that took us nowhere for a ridiculous, long-term stretch of six seasons after Black Sunday. That's just me though. I'm senseless.

 

If that's your summary, then you're making a pretty thoughtless jump from senseless gamble to a return to Regier-style management.

 

I'm saying that the draft(s) and prospects are not going to get the Sabres to the Promised Land. There's no way it happens as things stand. GMTM is going to have to make more moves than a lot of people seen to be anticipating, and they will have to be significant.

 

The Tank Nation view seems cavalier and short-sighted; that the next two drafts are going to solve this team's problems. So, really, you think a couple of 18 and 19 year old kids are going to put the offensive prospect pool over the top? And that the resultant roster is going to make it into the second round and beyond three years out?

 

 

 

None. Five years is not enough time.

It took the Penguins four years to win the stanley cup after picking first overall and the Blackhawks three, and the Kings won it four years after selecting second overall. It took the Avs a year to become contenders after picking first overall.

 

Those are all way more than five years and unbearable lengths of time.

 

Your analogy assumes Buffalo gets the golden tickets two drafts in a row!

 

 

[LastPommerFan]

Who is saying draft, but don't trade and FA? It's all three. We have the defense started extemely well with Myers, risto, and zadarov at the top. We have a high potential scoring center in grigs and a truly amazing physical center in Zemgus. We need to fill out the scoring center roll in the draft because those guys don't get traded nor reach FA. And the top of the draft is a better place to find those guys. Then, once that is done, we need scoring line wingers and a goalie. Sure, we can attempt to get those guys this summer, but to what end? With the high potential, but raw defensemen still so young, and the scoring line center positions still in need, we can add a couple vanek level wingers and a miller level goalie and end up maybe in 24th place rather than 30th.

 

We should draft top 5 talent this year and next, then worry about filling the winger and goalie slots that are always easier to fill through trade and FA anyway.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[Robviously]

If that's your summary, then you're making a pretty thoughtless jump from senseless gamble to a return to Regier-style management.

 

I'm saying that the draft(s) and prospects are not going to get the Sabres to the Promised Land. There's no way it happens as things stand. GMTM is going to have to make more moves than a lot of people seen to be anticipating, and they will have to be significant.

 

The Tank Nation view seems cavalier and short-sighted; that the next two drafts are going to solve this team's problems. So, really, you think a couple of 18 and 19 year old kids are going to put the offensive prospect pool over the top? And that the resultant roster is going to make it into the second round and beyond three years out?

I honestly can't even follow your logic at this point.

 

1. "Drafts and prospects" are NOT going to get the Sabres to the Promised Land. OK, what will? Should we trade for more veterans? Why would another GM trade us a quality player in exchange for some of the prospects we have that you don't like? And is there any reason we can't sign players as part of our trip to the Promised Land? Can we trade for veterans later, like when we're actually a decent team again?

 

2. "There's no way it happens as things stand." OK, so not only do you know exactly how ALL of our prospects will develop, you also know how ALL of our prospects from the next few drafts will develop. And that's without even knowing who we're picking this year or next. That's pretty incredible.

 

3. "GMTM is going to have to make more moves...." Now I'm back to wondering what moves you're advocating. Should we be trading for older players or signing guys right now? Can we trade the 3rd line prospects you don't like for established NHL stars? Why haven't we done this already?

 

4. Do I think a bunch of 18 year olds will add to our prospect pool? Yes. That's generally what happens when you draft players. They add to your prospect pool. I expect the Sabres to draft more 18 year olds that we can pin our hopes on at this year's draft. Next year's too.

 

5. Will it put our offensive prospect pool "over the top"? How do you put a prospect pool over the top? Isn't a prospect pool all based on guessing what those guys will be like 5 years down the road? So you're basically asking if we have the right set of prospects to guarantee something later. Good luck with that. That's like asking if you purchased enough raffle tickets to put yourself "over the top" for that night's 50-50 drawing.

 

Who is saying draft, but don't trade and FA?

No one, but why let that ruin a good rant?

Edited March 20, 2014 by Robviously

[Hoss]

Sizzle is just on a foolish rampage tonight.

[...]

 

I honestly can't even follow your logic at this point.

 

 

 

That's because you're too busy trying to construct straw men from my points. And why must you characterize it as a rant? AM I TYPING LIKE THIS>?S!? Don't be asinine. Can you not have a conversation where, while you disagree with the premise, you don't attack the point or the person like it kicked your dog? F*ck.

 

My primary point is pretty simple: the Sabre's offensive prospect pool does not have the high-end first and second line talent that is going to win a Cup. Period. There may be kids who can play on a second line on a NHL team...but on a Cup contending team? I haven't seen those projections anywhere. Care to point them out? I would love to have more faith. There are 30 teams, as you all know, so, being a second line offensive player on a NHL team doesn't say a whole lot.

 

Over two drafts, the Sabres may draft in the top 5 once. This draft. If the Islanders give up the pick this year, it could be in the top 6 or 7, but this draft isn't 6 or 7 deep. The Sabres could possibly win the lottery this draft and pick first with their pick, or lose and pick second, and if the latter, will be somewhat fortunate to wind up with Reinhart.

 

With all of the scuttlebutt over the 2015 draft ALREADY, I would not bank on the Sabres getting the first pick even if they do tank next season, which I am not convinced they will. So, frankly, all of you McDavid zealots really need to wake up and kiss him goodbye. Honestly, I would not be surprised if the league is already talking to the Sabres and telling them they better try and put a better product on the ice next season. Just a guess, of course, but it seems plausible.

 

So, let's say the Sabres pick, oh, fifth in 2015. And if they get the Islander's pick in 2015 who knows where that will be...6 or 7 again (I doubt the Islanders give up their first round in 2015, highly doubt it, if that draft is causing problems already over a year out). The Sabres may get someone good, but, well, okay, let's say it's the equivalent to Vanek (Vanek 2.0).

 

Over two drafts, they get a top 2 at best (Reinhart), a top 7 (Islanders pick this year), and a Vanek 2.0 type player next year. And then these guys need to develop for several seasons.

 

That's only THREE (3) III players who could...COULD...fill the needs of the team, and they will still need to develop over the next three, four, five years.

 

STOP. No one else has a problem with this, so far? Right? Makes sense?

 

QUESTION: is it smart to bank on these three players being the right talent to make the team a contender? Personally, I do not like relying on fortune to work my way. It's childish to me.

 

Okay, so, we have only THREE PLAYERS with the potential to be true first line talent. The odds, as have been pointed out here somewhere recently, of a player being quality first or second line talent after the, what was it, top 10 in the draft, drop significantly. So, yes, they will have other picks these two drafts, but, again, are you honestly expecting fortune to work in the Sabres' favour? My kids think like that.

 

The current roster is just awful offensively. That includes Hodgson, Stafford, Ennis, even, sad to say, Girgensons (although I find it mildly interesting scoring dropped...a lot...after Girgs went out).

 

The defense may be set, and I think it is, the goaltending may be set, and I think the Sabres are in good shape there, too. But there is NOTHING there offensively. They essentially have to re-craft all four lines. THREE DRAFTEES WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THE SYSTEM YET ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DENT IN THE SABRES' ABILITY TO COMPETE. Not for ........yyyeeeaaarrrrs. Sorry, that is the truth (in my opinion).

 

(NOTE: "Ability to compete" is meant to imply not only win games, but win games and attract outside talent, improving their ability to sign better free-agents, and also, as Nolan says, get the calls on the ice going their way. Being competitive is a multi-faceted endeavor, but, obviously, it starts with scoring goals and winning games.)

 

So. To finalize the point, relying on the draft and the prospects: not a smart way, or sure way, to conduct business. And since I believe that to be the case, I believe that GMTM is going to have to do more in the way of moves, signings, and more moves, and more signings to get this team where everyone wants it to be.

 

That means, maybe, trading Myers. That means, trading some of these prospects currently in the system everyone has high hopes for. That means trading Ennis. That means waiting for Stafford to increase his cache and trade him the hell out of here. That means maybe having to dip into the D prospect pool. I think there needs to be MORE done than the superficial stuff talked about around here, than the funny tank pictures in game threads belies, to ASSURE the team becomes competitive. And I think these priors thrown out like Pittsburgh in 4 years, Chicago in 3 or whatever it was, are NOT A RELIABLE MEASURE of the Sabres' circumstance because I think the Sabres are in worse shape than those teams were. I say 5 years bare minimum.

 

Don't agree? Have at it. But talk, don't be a doosh.

Edited March 20, 2014 by sizzlemeister

[Hoss]

My primary point is pretty simple: the Sabre's offensive prospect pool does not have the high-end first and second line talent that is going to win a Cup. Period. There may be kids who can play on a second line on a NHL team...but on a Cup contending team? I haven't seen those projections anywhere. Care to point them out? I would love to have more faith. There are 30 teams, as you all know, so, being a second line offensive player on a NHL team doesn't say a whole lot.

 

Over two drafts, the Sabres may draft in the top 5 once. This draft. If the Islanders give up the pick this year, it could be in the top 6 or 7, but this draft isn't 6 or 7 deep.

 

So you answer your first question by going into the second part, but you just skew the truth to make it look like you didn't answer yourself. Those elite offensive prospects will come in the next two drafts (and separately may come in eventual trades/signings).

You say the Islanders pick will be top 6/7 if they give it to us this year. It's almost 100% going to be top 4/5, not 6/7 which makes a difference in this draft where the talent drop off is big. If we get the pick then we would end up with two top-six forward prospects. Obviously not all prospects pan out, but you were only asking about prospects.

 

 

With all of the scuttlebutt over the 2015 draft ALREADY, I would not bank on the Sabres getting the first pick even if they do tank next season, which I am not convinced they will. So, frankly, all of you McDavid zealots really need to wake up and kiss him goodbye. Honestly, I would not be surprised if the league is already talking to the Sabres and telling them they better try and put a better product on the ice next season. Just a guess, of course, but it seems plausible.

 

This part is just a whole bunch of crap. We should give up McDavid because since there is a lot of hype we definitely can't get him? Makes a lot of sense. Let's consider two things: 1. SOMEBODY has to get him. 2. Even if you're suggesting that more teams will be tanking next season then why not the team that was by far the worst in the league this year? They'd be the leader in the clubhouse, lottery withstanding.

And then the part about the league talking to the Sabres is more crap. They can't and won't do anything. There have been slipups, but no definite HEY WE'RE TANKING! comments. Without a clear comment the league can't and won't do anything.

 

 

So, let's say the Sabres pick, oh, fifth in 2015. And if they get the Islander's pick in 2015 who knows where that will be...6 or 7 again (I doubt the Islanders give up their first round in 2015, highly doubt it, if that draft is causing problems already over a year out). The Sabres may get someone good, but, well, okay, let's say it's the equivalent to Vanek (Vanek 2.0).

 

Over two drafts, they get a top 2 at best (Reinhart), a top 7 (Islanders pick this year), and a Vanek 2.0 type player next year. And then these guys need to develop for several seasons.

 

That's only THREE (3) III players who could...COULD...fill the needs of the team, and they will still need to develop over the next three, four, five years.

 

STOP. No one else has a problem with this, so far? Right? Makes sense?

 

Nobody has a problem with it because they're not thinking basic worst case scenario as you are. And it's also suggesting that none of the current guys have even a sliver of a chance at being top six players and filling those needs before the other picks even come into the conversation.

Next year's draft has three/four forward prospects that are better prospects than Vanek was. Chances are we'll be getting one of them.

We are loaded with defensive prospects so that's nothing to worry about. It's just about filling an offensive lineup with talent. We have a lot of bodies so chances are at least one of them exceeds expectations and becomes a top-six type. Then we have enough bodies and will add a few more over the next two seasons to make sure the bottom six is fine. If Reinhart lives up to the billing, we get an elite forward next year and then Hodgson/Grigorenko/Ennis improve their games... You get a formidable top six.

 

 

QUESTION: is it smart to bank on these three players being the right talent to make the team a contender? Personally, I do not like relying on fortune to work my way. It's childish to me.

 

Okay, so, we have only THREE PLAYERS with the potential to be true first line talent. The odds, as have been pointed out here somewhere recently, of a player being quality first or second line talent after the, what was it, top 10 in the draft, drop significantly. So, yes, they will have other picks these two drafts, but, again, are you honestly expecting fortune to work in the Sabres' favour? My kids think like that.

 

Basically you are trying to say that you don't think any strategy but one that works 100% of the time is a good idea, which doesn't exist. Signing free agents is a clear gamble, as we've seen. Trades are a gamble, as we've seen. Drafting high in the draft is a gamble, as we've seen.

But, hey, at least you capped it off by insulting your own parenting ability.

 

 

The current roster is just awful offensively. That includes Hodgson, Stafford, Ennis, even, sad to say, Girgensons (although I find it mildly interesting scoring dropped...a lot...after Girgs went out).

 

The defense may be set, and I think it is, the goaltending may be set, and I think the Sabres are in good shape there, too. But there is NOTHING there offensively. They essentially have to re-craft all four lines. THREE DRAFTEES WHO AREN'T EVEN IN THE SYSTEM YET ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DENT IN THE SABRES' ABILITY TO COMPETE. Not for ........yyyeeeaaarrrrs. Sorry, that is the truth (in my opinion).

 

(NOTE: "Ability to compete" is meant to imply not only win games, but win games and attract outside talent, improving their ability to sign better free-agents, and also, as Nolan says, get the calls on the ice going their way. Being competitive is a multi-faceted endeavor, but, obviously, it starts with scoring goals and winning games.)

 

So is it truth or opinion? Because those are two different things. They have nothing now, we get it. We all know. We're watching, too. Hodgson is the worst player in the league, in your opinion, which isn't true.

You need to realize that some of our players right now are struggling to produce because of what's around them. Three talented players is A LOT. How many ACTUALLY talented forwards do the Penguins have? Three. Crosby, Malkin, Neal. Guys like Kunitz and Dupuis were decent but not great players until they played alongside Malkin and Crosby.

Now I'm not saying Reinhart or even McDavid will be as good as those players, but that's an example where you don't need to have elite players at every forward position.

 

So. To finalize the point, relying on the draft and the prospects: not a smart way, or sure way, to conduct business. And since I believe that to be the case, I believe that GMTM is going to have to do more in the way of moves, signings, and more moves, and more signings to get this team where everyone wants it to be.

 

And then this just shows a pure lack of knowledge on how NHL champions have been built for years. It all starts with the draft. The Kings are a rare exception where, despite drafting Doughty at 2, they were built using big trades.

 

 

That means, maybe, trading Myers. That means, trading some of these prospects currently in the system everyone has high hopes for. That means trading Ennis. That means waiting for Stafford to increase his cache and trade him the hell out of here. That means maybe having to dip into the D prospect pool. I think there needs to be MORE done than the superficial stuff talked about around here, than the funny tank pictures in game threads belies, to ASSURE the team becomes competitive. And I think these priors thrown out like Pittsburgh in 4 years, Chicago in 3 or whatever it was, are NOT A RELIABLE MEASURE of the Sabres' circumstance because I think the Sabres are in worse shape than those teams were. I say 5 years bare minimum.

 

Don't agree? Have at it. But talk, don't be a doosh.

 

Sure, we may have to trade some of the guys you mentioned. That's how it works. You draft well and you make smart trades to build a team that can play well TOGETHER. Nobody has said anything against what you're arguing. Nobody has said that you can't trade players/sign players AND draft them. It's a perfect mix of those that wins championships.

 

And I think you'd be surprised to see what kind of shape Pittsburgh was prior to their "tank."

 

Just relax. We're fans. We're going to get excited about nonsense that's over a year away. What else are we supposed to do? Comment in every gameday thread about how bad one of our only young and promising players currently on the roster is?