TrueBlueGED Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 If Ekblad is a Shea Weber type of player ... you better pick him... It would mean another year of tanking next year but I can take that if that means another year of development for Ekblad, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Pysyk ... add Myers and Ehrhoff and you have a great Top 6 on D. And at least 5 of them could build the back end for years... And what if Reinhart is a Toews type player, is it suddenly okay to pass on that opportunity? Barring a trade of several of our D or D prospects, drafting a forward is the only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The tank is still on folks. The run to nowhere cannot happen this year with this roster, let alone the roster we will see come next week. It just can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I want everyone right now to do 3 things. 1) Look back 20 years to 1994 and take a peak at the 1st overall picks. 2) List all the defenders and goalies who you think will be in the hall of fame or are All Stars. 3) Now, make the same list for the forwards... What's my point... well if you have a shot at drafting, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Tavares, Thornton, Kane OR you have a shot at drafting Phillips, Johnson, Jovanovski... well you freaking draft the forward! Chris Pronger is the exception to the rule by a wide margin and Aaron Ekblad does not look like Pronger. If we draft 1st overall in this draft we should take the forward. It simply makes more sense and is also what we NEED. And yes I am well aware of when Pronger was drafted (2nd overall). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think it is pretty clear we got our top pair defensemen in last year's draft. We'll almost certainly go forward in this draft (although I'm generally a fan of "best available" since the team can look very different in 3-4 years when these guys are ready to contribute). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 My concern is if we continue to win and end up in 2nd and lose the lottery, thus drafting 3rd. Now there's a good chance Edmonton is ahead of us and if they are they will likely take Ekblad. But if we pick 3rd and both Sam's go 1 and 2 I would seriously give a lot more thought to take Ek over someone like LD or Dal Colle. I would also be trying to trade up a spot or 2 if we end up in 3rd but if we can't then I I'm not sure which way to lean. Probably Dal Colle but I'd be OK with going Ek in that spot and try moving one of our young D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 My concern is if we continue to win and end up in 2nd and lose the lottery, thus drafting 3rd. Now there's a good chance Edmonton is ahead of us and if they are they will likely take Ekblad. But if we pick 3rd and both Sam's go 1 and 2 I would seriously give a lot more thought to take Ek over someone like LD or Dal Colle. I would also be trying to trade up a spot or 2 if we end up in 3rd but if we can't then I I'm not sure which way to lean. Probably Dal Colle but I'd be OK with going Ek in that spot and try moving one of our young D. Once the trade deadline comes most of the players that can keep us winning these meaningless games will most likely be gone and we will fulfill the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 We are 9 points behind 3rd worse with 1 game in hand and 23 games to play. If we go .500 during that span it gives us 65pts. So roughly speaking if Florida and Calgary win 7 of their last 24 games they should be able finish with more points than us, unless anyone really believes we can do better than .500 the rest of the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 We are 9 points behind 3rd worse with 1 game in hand and 23 games to play. If we go .500 during that span it gives us 65pts. So roughly speaking if Florida and Calgary win 7 of their last 24 games they should be able finish with more points than us, unless anyone really believes we can do better than .500 the rest of the way? I agree with both of the last two posts. We're still way back and the teams ahead of us are playing better as of late. And, without Miller alone we're sure to play like ###### the next 20 games. At worst, we'll draft 3rd but it is highly likely we'll pick 1st or 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) We are 9 points behind 3rd worse with 1 game in hand and 23 games to play. If we go .500 during that span it gives us 65pts. So roughly speaking if Florida and Calgary win 7 of their last 24 games they should be able finish with more points than us, unless anyone really believes we can do better than .500 the rest of the way? If we play .500 the rest of the way fine. I worry about playing over .500. But as others have mentioned, if Miller goes, my fears will greatly decrease. I guess I've just seen this rerun too many times now. I also saw what Teddy was able to do with a Latvian club devoid of talent. Edited February 27, 2014 by Derrico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I want everyone right now to do 3 things. 1) Look back 20 years to 1994 and take a peak at the 1st overall picks. 2) List all the defenders and goalies who you think will be in the hall of fame or are All Stars. 3) Now, make the same list for the forwards... What's my point... well if you have a shot at drafting, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Tavares, Thornton, Kane OR you have a shot at drafting Phillips, Johnson, Jovanovski... well you freaking draft the forward! Chris Pronger is the exception to the rule by a wide margin and Aaron Ekblad does not look like Pronger. If we draft 1st overall in this draft we should take the forward. It simply makes more sense and is also what we NEED. And yes I am well aware of when Pronger was drafted (2nd overall). I'm not seeing too many Cups on either side of your list. That's what the end game here is supposed to be, not HoF-level players. Right now you have listed one Cup winner up front and one on D. And also, of course the list of elite forwards is going to be longer. There are twice as many forwards in the league than there are defensemen. The numbers will always be slanted towards forwards, but that doesn't mean the defenseman isn't worth taking. The team needs to seriously consider Ekblad. They could wind up with potentially the most solid group of d-men in the league and that is where you build championships. Take a look at each of the post-lockout Stanley Cup champions. Other than Pittsburgh (which is an extreme case of elite forward talent) and Carolina (not really sure what happened there), you will see a long list of Norris-level defenseman. Like they always say, defense wins championships. They may be happy with what they have in the system now, but if you think Ekblad would get you to the point where you have a special group on the blue line, it definitely is worth serious consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm not seeing too many Cups on either side of your list. That's what the end game here is supposed to be, not HoF-level players. Right now you have listed one Cup winner up front and one on D. And also, of course the list of elite forwards is going to be longer. There are twice as many forwards in the league than there are defensemen. The numbers will always be slanted towards forwards, but that doesn't mean the defenseman isn't worth taking. The team needs to seriously consider Ekblad. They could wind up with potentially the most solid group of d-men in the league and that is where you build championships. Take a look at each of the post-lockout Stanley Cup champions. Other than Pittsburgh (which is an extreme case of elite forward talent) and Carolina (not really sure what happened there), you will see a long list of Norris-level defenseman. Like they always say, defense wins championships. They may be happy with what they have in the system now, but if you think Ekblad would get you to the point where you have a special group on the blue line, it definitely is worth serious consideration. Honestly have to say I agree with this. If Ekblad is superior to Reinhart than maybe we should take him. The only counterpoint is that the post cup teams have had very good 2-way centers which also helps defense. Reinhart would give us someone like that outside of Girgensons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Honestly have to say I agree with this. If Ekblad is superior to Reinhart than maybe we should take him. The only counterpoint is that the post cup teams have had very good 2-way centers which also helps defense. Reinhart would give us someone like that outside of Girgensons. It also relies quite heavily on what they plan on doing to prepare for next season. If they know they're going to suck again, the knowledge that they will very likely end up with McDavid/Eichel will play a role as well. Whether they would rather have the combination of two elite forwards or one F/one D, well that's up to people with a far better understanding of these players than I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm not seeing too many Cups on either side of your list. That's what the end game here is supposed to be, not HoF-level players. Right now you have listed one Cup winner up front and one on D. And also, of course the list of elite forwards is going to be longer. There are twice as many forwards in the league than there are defensemen. The numbers will always be slanted towards forwards, but that doesn't mean the defenseman isn't worth taking. The team needs to seriously consider Ekblad. They could wind up with potentially the most solid group of d-men in the league and that is where you build championships. Take a look at each of the post-lockout Stanley Cup champions. Other than Pittsburgh (which is an extreme case of elite forward talent) and Carolina (not really sure what happened there), you will see a long list of Norris-level defenseman. Like they always say, defense wins championships. They may be happy with what they have in the system now, but if you think Ekblad would get you to the point where you have a special group on the blue line, it definitely is worth serious consideration. But how many teams have multiple Norris-level defenders? It's a huge boon to have that one stud defender, but you certainly don't need a fleet of them--and none of the post lockout winners have had a fleet. On the other hand, the only team post-lockout to win the Cup finishing outside the top-10 in scoring is LA...and they scored at a much better clip in the playoffs than they did during the regular season. Defense gives you a chance to win championships, but it takes offense to win them. Ehrhoff is a top-pair Dman, Myers is playing like one right now and could solidify that role in the next year or two, Zadorov and Ristolainen both have top-pair potential, and Pysyk is pretty clearly a 2nd pair guy. Meanwhile, we have Grigorenko and Armia who project to be top line players if they hit their absolute ceiling, that's it. Again, barring a change in the current lineup or the organizational depth chart, there is no way this team can afford to forego top line forward talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 It also relies quite heavily on what they plan on doing to prepare for next season. If they know they're going to suck again, the knowledge that they will very likely end up with McDavid/Eichel will play a role as well. Whether they would rather have the combination of two elite forwards or one F/one D, well that's up to people with a far better understanding of these players than I have. I think also the interesting thing next year is that Isle's pick. Say we finish last again, Islanders win the Lottery. That could give us 1 and 2 overall. Noah Hanifin is someone that is garnering early attention for being a top 5 pick next season. Of course what if we ended up with Reinhart, McDavid, EIchel... what if we ended up with all 3 of them? Ekblad still isn't needed in that scenario imo. Hard to tell right now but some interesting things to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think next year if we somehow end up 1-2 then we've got to go Eichel-McDavid. Even with Reinhart this year. I just kind of want to fast forward to that draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I think also the interesting thing next year is that Isle's pick. Say we finish last again, Islanders win the Lottery. That could give us 1 and 2 overall. Noah Hanifin is someone that is garnering early attention for being a top 5 pick next season. Of course what if we ended up with Reinhart, McDavid, EIchel... what if we ended up with all 3 of them? Ekblad still isn't needed in that scenario imo. Hard to tell right now but some interesting things to consider. What if I won PowerBall? What if I discovered the fountain of youth? What if Norwood had made that FG? Edited February 27, 2014 by Robviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 What if I won PowerBall? What if I discovered the fountain of youth? What if Norwood had made that FG? You'd be rich, like gangsta rich. You'd live forever, like until the earth was destroyed. You'd have won a Superbowl, like actual champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 But how many teams have multiple Norris-level defenders? It's a huge boon to have that one stud defender, but you certainly don't need a fleet of them--and none of the post lockout winners have had a fleet. On the other hand, the only team post-lockout to win the Cup finishing outside the top-10 in scoring is LA...and they scored at a much better clip in the playoffs than they did during the regular season. Defense gives you a chance to win championships, but it takes offense to win them. No one is going to have a whole fleet of Norris level guys, including the Sabres if they draft Ekblad and everyone else develops successfully. That group could very well end up with a bunch of top pair d-men though. That's exactly what most of the Cup winners have had: -Anaheim had Pronger, Niedermayer (about as close to two Norris-level d-men as you'll ever get), Beauchemin, and a not quite aging yet Sean O'Donnell -Detroit had Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall -Chicago had Keith and Seabrook for both Cups and a lot of other quality pieces each year -LA had Doughty and did drop off a bit past him, but some solid vets like Scuderi and Mitchell -Boston had Chara and then a bunch of depth guys These are a bunch of solid defensive units. I leave out Pittsburgh because they didn't have that true horse, but the there were a bunch of highly valued guys there. I'd be willing to entertain the possibility that this Buffalo group could grow to be elite if they do want to add Ekblad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The Buffalo group could be elite without Ekblad. Ristolainen, Zadorov, McCabe, Pysyk... I don't want to get crazy but there's a chance that at least one develops into a Norris-level defenseman while some should be VERY good. Also a good chance at least one is a total bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The Buffalo group could be elite without Ekblad. Ristolainen, Zadorov, McCabe, Pysyk... I don't want to get crazy but there's a chance that at least one develops into a Norris-level defenseman while some should be VERY good. Also a good chance at least one is a total bust. The one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that drafting Ekblad also opens the door to moving one of these other guys for talent up front at some point. There are plenty of options for this team if they believe he is the best player available to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that drafting Ekblad also opens the door to moving one of these other guys for talent up front at some point. There are plenty of options for this team if they believe he is the best player available to them. I honestly don't think Ekblad is the best player in this draft. I think Reinhart is with Bennett close behind and then Ekblad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think Reinhart is the best player in the draft and that's why I want him. If Tim thinks Ekblad is the best player in the draft, I'm confident he will pick him if he's there, needs be damned. And I'm OK with that. Tim is smarter than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think Reinhart is the best player in the draft and that's why I want him. If Tim thinks Ekblad is the best player in the draft, I'm confident he will pick him if he's there, needs be damned. And I'm OK with that. Tim is smarter than me. This is where I am as well. Well put Dudacek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that drafting Ekblad also opens the door to moving one of these other guys for talent up front at some point. There are plenty of options for this team if they believe he is the best player available to them. This would be the only reason I'd take Ekblad. You can have as many norris-caliber d-men you want, but without the offense to hold some sort of zone pressure and a good goalie come playoff time, that's not going to mean anything. As it's been said, there's only six of them, and only two of them on the ice at once, they can only do so much. I agree that those teams have had two elite/top d-men, but they didn't roll out 6 of them, and they had the offense to compliment them. IMO, I just don't feel like becoming the next Predators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 This would be the only reason I'd take Ekblad. You can have as many norris-caliber d-men you want, but without the offense to hold some sort of zone pressure and a good goalie come playoff time, that's not going to mean anything. As it's been said, there's only six of them, and only two of them on the ice at once, they can only do so much. I agree that those teams have had two elite/top d-men, but they didn't roll out 6 of them, and they had the offense to compliment them. IMO, I just don't feel like becoming the next Predators And let's face it. Every single one of the guys we are talking about are not going to wind up as top pair defensmen. We need to break from the thought around here that every single Sabre prospect is the second coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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