OFF TOPIC Will the Bills and Sabres Shuffle Out of Buffalo?

[nfreeman]

You know that Giants Stadium is in New Jersey, right?

 

I don't think the last 2 are good comps on your list.

 

Yes -- but NYS and NJ are similarly situated in terms of unions and labor costs.

 

To be clear, I don't expect a WNY stadium to cost anywhere close to what Giants stadium cost. But I also don't think it's realistic to think it will cost 25% of what Giants Stadium cost.

[Robviously]

Stadium naming rights aren't necessarily attached to local companies. M&T Stadium? In Baltimore, not Buffalo. Barclay's Arena? Brooklyn, not London. FedEx field? DC suburbs, not Memphis. Etc. NFL stadium = instant visibility, so this is a non-issue.

M&T merged with (or bought) a Baltimore-based bank so I'd still consider that a local sponsor.

 

Major international companies would still be interested in Buffalo but our sponsorship money would obviously be way less than they'd give for other cities.

[LGR4GM]

Broncos stadium -- 2001 -- $400MM

Seahawks stadium -- 2002 -- $430MM

Cardinals stadium -- 2006 -- $455MM

Eagles stadium -- 2003 -- $512MM

Cowboys stadium -- 2009 -- $1.3B

Giants stadium -- 2010 -- $1.6B

 

All open-air stadiums (or, if you prefer, stadia).

 

They don't get cheaper over time.

First Cowboys have a state of the art retractable roof in one of the poshest stadiums in existence.

Second Metlife is in New Jersey where the cost of land is so much higher than Buffalo it is laughable.

 

Not saying that Stadium price is not really high but those two examples have major flaws. I think the Bills could build a 75,000 seat stadium for around 600mil in WNY. Again that all depends on what the bids come in at so us speculating is a bit of crap shoot right now.

 

Yes -- but NYS and NJ are similarly situated in terms of unions and labor costs.

 

To be clear, I don't expect a WNY stadium to cost anywhere close to what Giants stadium cost. But I also don't think it's realistic to think it will cost 25% of what Giants Stadium cost.

It could but again we don't know. Your pricing def gives us a starting point to consider though.

 

He's got your stadium naming rights!

Lol Geico Stadium or Independent Health Field... take your pick

[26CornerBlitz]

Lol Geico Stadium or Independent Health Field... take your pick

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/The-richest-stadium-naming-rights-deals-in-US-4703583.php

[LGR4GM]

http://www.chron.com...-US-4703583.php

AAA Amphitheatre

University at Buffalo Bowl

Geico Colisium

Independent Health Heliosphere

The Celino and Barnes Barn

Wegmans Hippodrome

[Hoss]

Did you read the entire quote? The Rose Bowl for a couple seasons while the new stadium is being built. The group in charge of the project are already looking into teams with leases set to expire.

 

Pasadena has already said they will not welcome a temporary NFL team to the Rose Bowl. So that's out of the question.

[TrueBlueGED]

Pasadena has already said they will not welcome a temporary NFL team to the Rose Bowl. So that's out of the question.

 

I'm not convinced they would hold true to that when they're staring down the barrel of some major dollar signs.

[Hoss]

I'm not convinced they would hold true to that when they're staring down the barrel of some major dollar signs.

 

Well they blocked the plans that would've brought them millions in the first place. So they've already decided it's not the course it wants. The area would have to spend millions in renovations and improvements to the area so they may not really make as much as it sounds.

[Doohicksie]

The article is a tad over dramatic but all in all pretty well written.

 

It takes six clicks to read though. Sorry, I give an article one, maybe two clicks. If it doesn't have a "show entire article link", they can blow.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Doohickie

[Jsixspd]

Sabres are on solid ground, financially. I think it highly unlikely that they ever move from Buffalo.

 

Bills, OTOH..... although its a bit more in flux due to Wilson's advancing years and the fact that no succession plan has yet been outlined, my gut feeling is that they'll stay here... because as wretched as this team's performance and management has been over the last 15 years, it's still one of the top ten franchises in the NFL for profitability. And the reason it's profitable is the market and the fans. Moving the team would be a huge risk - which could tank the team's income.

 

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/134157/37/Forbes-Bills-Among-NFLs-Most-Profitable-Teams

[Eleven]

M&T merged with (or bought) a Baltimore-based bank so I'd still consider that a local sponsor.

 

Major international companies would still be interested in Buffalo but our sponsorship money would obviously be way less than they'd give for other cities.

 

It's not a local sponsor just because it does business there, for the same reason FedEx and Barclay's are not local sponsors.

 

To your second point, not "way less," but yeah, less than average. They're in it mainly for the TV and media exposure; Buffalo gets less because (a) it's smaller and (b) the team isn't good and therefore isn't in the national eye.

[nfreeman]

Sabres are on solid ground, financially. I think it highly unlikely that they ever move from Buffalo.

 

Bills, OTOH..... although its a bit more in flux due to Wilson's advancing years and the fact that no succession plan has yet been outlined, my gut feeling is that they'll stay here... because as wretched as this team's performance and management has been over the last 15 years, it's still one of the top ten franchises in the NFL for profitability. And the reason it's profitable is the market and the fans. Moving the team would be a huge risk - which could tank the team's income.

 

http://www.wgrz.com/...rofitable-Teams

 

i wish this were true, but unfortunately you are omitting the (substantial) impact of debt service. Any buyer of the team is going to use upwards of $500MM in borrowed money as part of the purchase price. Servicing that debt (to say nothing of the debt relating to the cost of a new stadium, if that happens) will wipe out out the team's current profitability and plunge it into the red.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Anyone think the Greater Buffalo community could go all Green Bay Packers and *own* the Bills?

 

Probably not in this day and age. I assume the public owned the Pack since the 60's. I also assume they still do.

[26CornerBlitz]

Anyone think the Greater Buffalo community could go all Green Bay Packers and *own* the Bills?

 

Probably not in this day and age. I assume the public owned the Pack since the 60's. I also assume they still do.

 

The NFL no longer allows public ownership of franchises. The Packers are grandfathered.

[Guest Sloth]

If people are unwilling to pay an additional 8 dollars a month in taxes for improvement in public school athletic facilities, I seriously doubt they'd want to pay x amount to keep a football team in their city. This isn't making reference to any city/school system in western New York. However, things like this do happen nation wide.

[calti]

If people are unwilling to pay an additional 8 dollars a month in taxes for improvement in public school athletic facilities, I seriously doubt they'd want to pay x amount to keep a football team in their city. This isn't making reference to any city/school system in western New York. However, things like this do happen nation wide.

would be idiotic for people to pay any amt in taxes to subsidize billionaires in a multi-billion dollar sport

[Jsixspd]

would be idiotic for people to pay any amt in taxes to subsidize billionaires in a multi-billion dollar sport

 

Agree wholeheartedly. We've given more than enough public largess to Ralph Wilson Jr, which he's used to line his pockets with. Don't give them a dime more - the Bills run a profit of 40 MILLION dollars a year - that's enough for them to take of their facility on their own.

[Weave]

would be idiotic for people to pay any amt in taxes to subsidize billionaires in a multi-billion dollar sport

Agree wholeheartedly. We've given more than enough public largess to Ralph Wilson Jr, which he's used to line his pockets with. Don't give them a dime more - the Bills run a profit of 40 MILLION dollars a year - that's enough for them to take of their facility on their own.

 

And this sentiment is wide spread enough to convince me that the Bills are not long for this region. RWS is outdated as it is, even with the periodic improvements it gets. a new owner is not going to keep the team operating there.

[Guest Sloth]

would be idiotic for people to pay any amt in taxes to subsidize billionaires in a multi-billion dollar sport

 

Couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

[TrueBlueGED]

And this sentiment is wide spread enough to convince me that the Bills are not long for this region. RWS is outdated as it is, even with the periodic improvements it gets. a new owner is not going to keep the team operating there.

 

When faced with the possibility of actually losing the team, I'm not sure that sentiment will be anything other than a vocal minority.

[nfreeman]

Here's a bit more on anticipated stadium costs: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/orchard-park/show-me-the-books-poloncarz-tells-nfl-on-stadium-demand-20140812?two-bills-drive

 

Noting that any new facility would likely cost at least $750 million, with a third of that likely paid by the county, Poloncarz said: “I’m not going to cut libraries, I’m not going to cut parks, I’m not going to cut Child Protective Services to give more money to the multibillionaires who run professional football.”

[Eleven]

Here's a bit more on anticipated stadium costs: http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive

 

Unfortunately, we do have somewhat of a crisis in Erie County when it comes to essential services, and there's little room for luxury. The state is going to have to help out bigtime if this is going to get done.

[nfreeman]

Unfortunately, we do have somewhat of a crisis in Erie County when it comes to essential services, and there's little room for luxury. The state is going to have to help out bigtime if this is going to get done.

 

I think there is NFW that NYS is going to provide $300MM for a WNY stadium, let alone $500MM+.

[Eleven]

I think there is NFW that NYS is going to provide $300MM for a WNY stadium, let alone $500MM+.

 

Then the County had better be ready to float a big bond, because there isn't money in the budget for it right now.

 

One of the smart things Collins did as executive was to cut funding to small, non-self-sustaining cultural organizations. One of the first things Poloncarz did was to reinstate that funding. While as people, I greatly prefer Poloncarz to Collins (it's not even close), Collins knew how to run the County like a business. He realized that we had to have essential services and also had to dig out of the red, and did it.

 

While I enjoy having things like the Irish Classical Theatre in town, is it that important to keep if the public isn't supporting it? Does it bring out-of-town dollars to WNY? Etc.

[SwampD]

I think there is NFW that NYS is going to provide $300MM for a WNY stadium, let alone $500MM+.

I wonder if the last remaining NFL team in NYS leaving will have any pull in getting them to help out.