GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Columbus at Buffalo 10-10-13 at 7:00 PM

[Kristian]

I want the rebuild to continue. Knew it would suck and am trying to be reasonable about it. My issue is the vets are playing crappier than the rookies. By the end of December I would expect to see a more cohesive team.

 

In all fairness though, isn't that the reason we're rebuilding in the first place? Because the "old" team was a lacklustre, overrated bunch? I'm disgusted by it, but I'm in no way surprised.

 

These guys didn't play hard when they were supposed to be a playoff team, why would they start now? :(

 

And a hard working team that excelled at all the little things and played with giant hearts each shift.

 

And having the best goalie to ever play the game in his prime helped too.

 

So you didn't watch the Sabres in the late '90's?

 

53

46

66

 

Those were the top point scorers' totals in '97, '98, & '99. Impressive, huh?

 

Jason Dawe, Miro Satan, Miro Satan, if I recall correctly?

 

Zhitnik was second with 45 points in '98, just as a piece of interesting and mind boggling fact :flirt:

[darksabre]

 

 

It's lazy, and weak, and simply incorrect, to assert that the large group of posters here (or any large group anywhere, for that matter) all wanted the same thing

 

A lot of people did want a rebuild though.

[Taro T]

In all fairness though, isn't that the reason we're rebuilding in the first place? Because the "old" team was a lacklustre, overrated bunch? I'm disgusted by it, but I'm in no way surprised.

 

These guys didn't play hard when they were supposed to be a playoff team, why would they start now? :(

 

 

 

And having the best goalie to ever play the game in his prime helped too.

 

 

 

Jason Dawe Derek Plante , Miro Satan, Miro Satan, if I recall correctly?

 

Zhitnik was second with 45 points in '98, just as a piece of interesting and mind boggling fact :flirt:

Missed it by ... that much.

[26CornerBlitz]

A lot of people did want a rebuild though.

 

True enough, but with a better plan and a new architect.

[Taro T]

A lot of people did want a rebuild though.

A rebuild doesn't necessarily have to be from the foundation up. (Though using the same project manager that botched the last 2 rebuilds makes it doubtful that the new foundation will be any better.)

 

There were very few calling for total blowup. (DeLuca was definitely in that camp.) Most wanted a few key pieces brought in instead.(A new PM being one of those pieces.)

[TrueBlueGED]

A lot of people did want a rebuild though.

 

This is true. But just because we wanted a rebuild because we think it's best long-term doesn't mean we have to pretend to enjoy the short-term product :P

[nfreeman]

It doesn't take a genius to see what the majority of this board wanted last year. It was a rebuild. And for the most part, at the time, most people agreed with the picks. Perhaps it's just ignorance on your part. Maybe It's just me, but I can't recall many people saying 'leave it alone, the team will get better with time'.

 

And now we have 2 more lazy and weak statements.

 

No one said to leave it alone -- and no one claimed that people said that either. What I and others did say was that bottoming out and becoming unwatchable they way they are now was not necessary and would likely be worse in the long run than fixing the team another way.

 

A rebuild doesn't necessarily have to be from the foundation up. (Though using the same project manager that botched the last 2 rebuilds makes it doubtful that the new foundation will be any better.)

 

There were very few calling for total blowup. (DeLuca was definitely in that camp.) Most wanted a few key pieces brought in instead.(A new PM being one of those pieces.)

 

Beat me to it.

[JJFIVEOH]

And now we have 2 more lazy and weak statements.

 

No one said to leave it alone -- and no one claimed that people said that either. What I and others did say was that bottoming out and becoming unwatchable they way they are now was not necessary and would likely be worse in the long run than fixing the team another way.

 

That's a pretty broad statement. Pretty much fits many situations, kinda like a horoscope.

 

I said the majority wanted a rebuild. You said I was incorrect in my assumption. Call me lazy and weak all you want, I'm still correct. The only thing 'weak' about all this is your refusal to admit I'm right.

[SabresBillsFan]

Everyone gets it about the rebuild but you shouldn't gut the whole franchise and start over like an expansion team. Yes a lot of teams go through rebuilds but you try to keep a solid player or two on to teach the youngsters. You don't want your only goal scorer to be gone and really your only talent up front. This is actually going to be worse than Edmonton. They drafted all forwards we drafted all defense. Now look at both teams. If Justin Schultz didn't go to Edmonton in free agency they have nobody solid on the back end. Problem with Buffalo they have no offense and there veteran defenseman besides Hoff isn't much better. We get the rebuild but what this team has right now going forward isn't exciting to watch. It's extremely brutal. Think about your worst team you ever played on in your life. You knew every game you were going to lose it was a matter of by how much. Good teams aren't really motivated to play you because they know they are going to win even on their worst day. Yes even if we win the next 2 or 3 draft lotteries these players aren't going to make Crosby type steps in making this franchise better. In the direction this is heading it's going to be a 5+ rebuild before they could see just making the playoffs if you plan on moving Vanek and Miller.

[Iron Crotch]

I said the majority wanted a rebuild.

 

 

I think for sure the majority wanted a rebuild... but WITHOUT DARCY PRESIDING OVER IT.

 

I honestly think we'd feel at least some sense of hope, even with the pathetic start, were a new GM in charge. We could hang our hats on a new guy going about things a new way and bringing in his own players. IMHO, much of the sense of dismay on this board comes from our mistrust that Darcy can make this team better. We have 16+ years of evidence that he doesn't know what he is doing. As well, I would argue that if a GM needs to finish dead last in order to "rebuild" then he's not a very good GM.

[JJFIVEOH]

I think for sure the majority wanted a rebuild... but WITHOUT DARCY PRESIDING OVER IT.

 

I honestly think we'd feel at least some sense of hope, even with the pathetic start, were a new GM in charge. We could hang our hats on a new guy going about things a new way and bringing in his own players. IMHO, much of the sense of dismay on this board comes from our mistrust that Darcy can make this team better. We have 16+ years of evidence that he doesn't know what he is doing. As well, I would argue that if a GM needs to finish dead last in order to "rebuild" then he's not a very good GM.

 

That's fair. If that's what Freeman had in mind then he should have said that. Would have made the discussion a whole hell of a lot easier and wouldn't have wasted so much time. Certainly didn't need to resort to calling me weak and lazy just because he couldn't explain himself properly. ;)

[dEnnis the Menace]

I think for sure the majority wanted a rebuild... but WITHOUT DARCY PRESIDING OVER IT.

 

This is where I'm at. I wanted a shakedown of the roster and the dead weight removed, but I wanted it done with someone else at the helm. I used to believe Darcy as a competent fellow, but nowhere near great for a GM, especially with some of the draft picks and trades he made over the years. But now I see him as close to incompetent and drowning as he can get.

 

This team needs a new visionary. If everyone thought the message Lindy was sending was getting stale, what do you think DR's message has become? Like Lgr said, it's more of a vague notion of a direction rather than a vision and a plan.

[nfreeman]

That's a pretty broad statement. Pretty much fits many situations, kinda like a horoscope.

 

I said the majority wanted a rebuild. You said I was incorrect in my assumption. Call me lazy and weak all you want, I'm still correct. The only thing 'weak' about all this is your refusal to admit I'm right.

 

Well, you first said "you all" and "everybody" -- not "the majority".

 

More importantly, you continue to pretend that "a rebuild" has to involve bottoming out and that "the majority" of posters here wanted exactly what is happening now. It's far more accurate to say that the majority of posters here felt that significant changes were needed to the team -- not that they wanted the Sabres to become a terrible team.

[dudacek]

I wanted a rebuild (preferably with a new architect) and am willing to sacrifice for long-term gain.

I never thought the team would be as bad as it's shown so far this year.

The goalies look good. But so many players that had bad seasons last year look as bad or worse this year.

Only Vanek, Hodgson, Pysyk and Ehrhoff have looked like they belong in anything more than a support role in the NHL.

 

[Sabre Dance]

You obviously missed the point with your misguided rant.

 

Of course the fans and media need to get on their case. But 5 games into a season with a bunch of kids that have barely played in the league? Did I mention nine players have less than 100 games experience? Seriously, you need to draw the line somewhere, and the vast majority od Sabres fans and BFLO media have no clue where that line is. For Christ's sake, everybdoy cried about wanting this team to go through a rebuild, now they're only 5 games into the season and all of a sudden everybody is an expert on how good these kids are and what they'll turn out to be? Seriously? I tell you one thing, if I were an athlete and Hamilton used that condescending attitude towards me that he did with Foligno and Myers last night, with his belittling questions, he wouldn't be getting any interviews with me until backed the ###### off and treated me with a little respect.

 

You all need to make up your minds, You wanted a rebuild, you got it. Now that you got it, you aren't happy that it's not turned around after 5 games when most people were in agreement that it takes at least two years. Some might say that it's not a total rebuild yet because Vanek and Miller are still here. Funny part about that is, people will bitch that ther aren't traded yet, but if they were they'd bitch about the return they got for them because there wasn't a great market for them during the offseason. All basis are covered and the majority will bitch regardless of the situation.

 

Well, I don't recall ever asking the team for a rebuild. When Pegula bought the team, I had imagined he would take the rest of that season to evaluate everyone in the organization and let go those not doing their jobs well (i.e., Ruff and Regier). He went in a different direction. I get it. The team is what it is. I just want to know why these very young players, who should be thrilled to death to be wearing the sweater of an NHL team can't forecheck, etc. I knew they were not going to win many games and I was prepared to weather that storm. What I thought was going to be a tropical storm is turning into Hurricane Katrina. Hey, we're only five games in. I haven't thrown up my hands and walked away from the team...yet.

 

As far as being carried away by a sports team, I certainly am not that. I have much more important things going on in my life. I have a full time job that keeps me hopping, I just took out a hefty mortgage and (in my spare time) I'm primary caretaker for my 91 year-old mom. The Sabres are just a distraction from reality. If it offends you that much when I'm critical of a poor team, I'll be happy to log off the discussion board for the rest of the season. Just let me know...

[JJFIVEOH]

Well, you first said "you all" and "everybody" -- not "the majority".

 

More importantly, you continue to pretend that "a rebuild" has to involve bottoming out and that "the majority" of posters here wanted exactly what is happening now. It's far more accurate to say that the majority of posters here felt that significant changes were needed to the team -- not that they wanted the Sabres to become a terrible team.

 

I have not even made any reference to bottoming out. In fact, I've mentioned that THIS is what the board wanted........... and this team hasn't bottomed out. Logically speaking, that pretty much cancels out any possibility of 'bottoming out' even being a part of the conversation.

 

Whether you want to use 'everybody' or 'majority'............. the fact remains that it wasn't a MINORITY. If there was more to your original post in which you called my statements weak and lazy, perhaps you should have been more specific.

[SabresBillsFan]

All Buffalo had to do is gut the dead weight and build around your good players. Stafford, Leino, and a handful of others still need to go. But to lose all your good players(which you know Vanek and Miller are gone)and to start from scratch is brutal. Ottawa at least did the rebuild the right way. They had Spezza still under contract with Karlsson two building blocks moving forward. But to have none in the direction the Sabres are heading is beyond stupid. You people can't tell me this is exciting to watch. I'm all for getting a couple of top three picks in the next couple of drafts but at least have a team that's alittle entertaining to watch. Even the Oilers and Avs had some great games to watch the last few years but this team could set the league low for goals scored in a season. It's bad folks. Plus who in the hell trust Darcy with a rebuild ? I for one don't. I know people don't like Brian Burke but he turned that Leafs team around and Nonis is getting most of the credit.

 

I wanted a rebuild (preferably with a new architect) and am willing to sacrifice for long-term gain.

I never thought the team would be as bad as it's shown so far this year.

The goalies look good. But so many players that had bad seasons last year look as bad or worse this year.

Only Vanek, Hodgson, Pysyk and Ehrhoff have looked like they belong in anything more than a support role in the NHL.

 

You hit the nail on the head. This is how I feel as well but I have never seen a team in all my years of watching hockey could be as bad as the team we are watching right now. There not even exciting to watch. All your offense comes from pretty much Vanek and once he leaves you have nothing. Hodgson is going to be totally lost when Vanek goes.

[darksabre]

Someone should make a poll...

[JJFIVEOH]

Well, I don't recall ever asking the team for a rebuild. When Pegula bought the team, I had imagined he would take the rest of that season to evaluate everyone in the organization and let go those not doing their jobs well (i.e., Ruff and Regier). He went in a different direction. I get it. The team is what it is. I just want to know why these very young players, who should be thrilled to death to be wearing the sweater of an NHL team can't forecheck, etc. I knew they were not going to win many games and I was prepared to weather that storm. What I thought was going to be a tropical storm is turning into Hurricane Katrina. Hey, we're only five games in. I haven't thrown up my hands and walked away from the team...yet.

 

As far as being carried away by a sports team, I certainly am not that. I have much more important things going on in my life. I have a full time job that keeps me hopping, I just took out a hefty mortgage and (in my spare time) I'm primary caretaker for my 91 year-old mom. The Sabres are just a distraction from reality. If it offends you that much when I'm critical of a poor team, I'll be happy to log off the discussion board for the rest of the season. Just let me know...

 

That's your opinion and I can respect that. I can't recall ever taking offense to anything you've said, I rarely take offense to anything that a forum poster says. I'm sorry that you took offense, and responded to, a post that wasn't even directed at you.

[LGR4GM]

Someone should make a poll...

on? how much this team sucks? if you trust darcy? if seal team 6 would have defeated lord voldemort years before harry potter did?

[Eleven]

I will say again that this is exactly what I didn't want.

[MattPie]

I do remember *lots* of people wishing for the Sabres to bottom out last year for the draft pick, with or without trading people. (I don't remember what my stand was, but I can see the benefit both ways). So I guess my question is: what did all the bottom-out folks think was going to happen? The team would add a pick or two and suddenly be contenders?

[SabresBillsFan]

Someone should make a poll...

 

On what the which Sabres team would be the most un entertaining to watch in the history of the franchise? If they will score the fewest goals in nhl history? How long the rebuild will take? God it's bad right now. I have never been more down watching the Sabres in all these years. Plus knowing your two best players are going to be gone makes it much worse. I'm okay with Miller going but I want to know who is going to create any sort of offense when Vanek goes. Because once Vanek goes Cody's production is going to go way down.

[dEnnis the Menace]

On what the which Sabres team would be the most un entertaining to watch in the history of the franchise? If they will score the fewest goals in nhl history? How long the rebuild will take? God it's bad right now. I have never been more down watching the Sabres in all these years. Plus knowing your two best players are going to be gone makes it much worse. I'm okay with Miller going but I want to know who is going to create any sort of offense when Vanek goes. Because once Vanek goes Cody's production is going to go way down.

 

I'm guessing he means a poll regarding what people wanted in a rebuild.

 

And I'm with Eleven on this, what's going on now is not what I wanted at all in the rebuild.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

I'm guessing he means a poll regarding what people wanted in a rebuild.

 

And I'm with Eleven on this, what's going on now is not what I wanted at all in the rebuild.

 

I wanted a rebuild but not a total gutting of the franchise where you are almost like an expansion team.