Is it Too early to put Grigo and Bust in the same sentence?

[nfreeman]

I would have too when you write it like that.

But when you say Ennis, McNabb and Zadorov, I say no, not with where this team is headed.

 

And you still can't guarantee that's a better deal form the Ducks perspective.

Do they like Ennis more than Silfverberg and McNabb more than Noesen?

Is pick 16 now better than gambling where Ottawa will finish?

 

I would trade Nikita, Ennis and McNabb for Ryan, even though it does hurt more when we say his name. McNabb is starting to look like a washout, Nikita is certainly intriguing but still very iffy and Ennis is starting to look like Afinogenov is his ceiling. Meanwhile, Ryan is 26 and is a no-BS top-line forward who scores plenty and plays a hard game. (He's what Stafford should have become, but that's another discussion.)

 

As for the Ducks, certainly they could prefer the Ottawa package. I do think though that #16 in 2013 is materially better than Ottawa's projected #1 in 2014 -- and that Anaheim would feel the same way, which is enough to compensate for the spread between Ennis/McNabb and Silfverberg/Noesen).

[Robviously]

Not saying flashes are all that exciting, but your Ray example really falls flat. Scoring a goal isn't flashing talent.

Most of the time, scoring a goal requires some display of talent or ability. Ray beat the goalie clean on a wrist shot. I'd say that's a pretty good example.

 

Of course, the quality of the example isn't the point. The point is that we haven't seen anything from 25 to think he's going to be a special player in the NHL.

[TrueBlueGED]

 

Most of the time, scoring a goal requires some display of talent or ability. Ray beat the goalie clean on a wrist shot. I'd say that's a pretty good example.

 

Of course, the quality of the example isn't the point. The point is that we haven't seen anything from 25 to think he's going to be a special player in the NHL.

 

Nope, we haven't. But he's still played less games than Stamkos before he showed a damn thing, or Seguin, or any number of other examples. The narrative on Vanek early in his career probably would have been much the same as Grigs if he didn't play in college, a year in the AHL, oh and having the good fortune of breaking into the NHL on a stacked team.

 

Edit: the #1 problem with Grigs is the team completely oversold how NHL-ready he was. Now I think many are having trouble breaking away and evaluating him as a typical 19 year old rather than what the Sabres sold him as.

[apuszczalowski]

I have two possible explanations. One is simply because the plan is to tank and go through the long rebuild--Bobby Ryan doesn't help that. The other is that he thought we were better than we are (I think Dudacek posited this somewhere)--in which case, basically every complaint about Regier becomes unquestionably supported.

He is 26 years old, how does he not help a rebuilding team?????

 

Both explanations are quite plausible. Here's another: DR detests bidding wars so much that he sits out whenever a good player publicly comes onto the market -- e.g. Pronger, Mike Richards, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Ryan. So the Sabres don't overpay, but they also never land a difference-maker unless it's someone below the radar like Briere or (hopefully) Hodgson.

its even more simple then that, Darcy has to be the "winner" and come out looking like a genius, so he is always looking to get under the radar guys who have potential. He is too worried that he will end up overpaying for an established guy.

[TrueBlueGED]

He is 26 years old, how does he not help a rebuilding team?????

 

You missed "tank", which is the operative word in that sentence.

[LGR4GM]

its even more simple then that, Darcy has to be the "winner" and come out looking like a genius, so he is always looking to get under the radar guys who have potential. He is too worried that he will end up overpaying for an established guy.

Myers, Stafford, Leino, Connolly, there has to be someone else but those come to mind

(I know you meant trades)

[deluca67]

Elite forward talent is clearly what this team needs and I'm not sure they will get it from this draft.

I'm convinced Darcy is angling furiously to make another deal for an Hodgson-type emerging player.

Hopefully he is looking to do much better than that.

 

Last season Grigorenko was the face of the Sabres "rebuild", looking at how the Sabres have mishandled him gives me great concerns how the rest of the kids will be handled. He's far from bust status, the Sabres certainly have not done him any good to date.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yes. Way too early.

 

The kid is 19 and his time in the NHL has been total mismanaged.

 

Sure, he may have been tossed in there too early, but with the state of the team and the roster what could they do.

 

I have seen enough of him over the years. He will be a very good NHL player in 5 to 7 years. I hope the Sabres give him that much time. Very few, the elite of the elite, make it bid time before the age of 25, or so.

 

What does anyone really expect from him with the state of ineptitude on the Sabres, even the veterans, can't score, can't play defense ...

[HopefulFuture]

Bring in a Russian sniping winger to play with him and he improves drastically IMHO.

Edmonton appears to need a net minder.

Hey Darcy, how about swinging a deal for Yakupov?

[inkman]

Yes. Way too early.

 

The kid is 19 and his time in the NHL has been total mismanaged.

 

Sure, he may have been tossed in there too early, but with the state of the team and the roster what could they do.

 

I have seen enough of him over the years. He will be a very good NHL player in 5 to 7 years. I hope the Sabres give him that much time. Very few, the elite of the elite, make it bid time before the age of 25, or so.

 

What does anyone really expect from him with the state of ineptitude on the Sabres, even the veterans, can't score, can't play defense ...

Fans were sold that he was an elite talent worthy of a top 3 selection. Since he's not even living up to 12th overall, the ###### has hit the fan. Almost every other first round pick from the last 2 years that I have seen in the NHL appears to be WAY ahead of him.

[Huckleberry]

Bring in a Russian sniping winger to play with him and he improves drastically IMHO.

Edmonton appears to need a net minder.

Hey Darcy, how about swinging a deal for Yakupov?

 

yeah and make stafford part of the deal :D

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Fans were sold that he was an elite talent worthy of a top 3 selection. Since he's not even living up to 12th overall, the ###### has hit the fan. Almost every other first round pick from the last 2 years that I have seen in the NHL appears to be WAY ahead of him.

 

Maybe because they have more talent and they are not playing for the Sabres (read mismanaged and misused on the ice).

[inkman]

Maybe because they have more talent

Yes. This is where it starts and ends. They all have more talent. It was on our scouts and GM to select the player with the most talent at 12 and they picked a guy who appears shouldn't have been drafted at all. That pick, along with every other move the GM has made or not made the last 6 years has given us this pile of garbage team.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yes. This is where it starts and ends. They all have more talent. It was on our scouts and GM to select the player with the most talent at 12 and they picked a guy who appears shouldn't have been drafted at all. That pick, along with every other move the GM has made or not made the last 6 years has given us this pile of garbage team.

 

With all due respect Ink ...

 

... I think it has more to do with the last part of my post that you quoted.

[TrueBlueGED]

Yes. This is where it starts and ends. They all have more talent. It was on our scouts and GM to select the player with the most talent at 12 and they picked a guy who appears shouldn't have been drafted at all. That pick, along with every other move the GM has made or not made the last 6 years has given us this pile of garbage team.

 

Now you're just being absurd.

[thesportsbuff]

AND I WANTED THEM TOO. I was big on Lindholm and Monahan (who we all knew was going to calgary) and yet we drafted another defender and then another one (although Zadorov should not have been there). I like Risto, I really do. He seems smart, hard working, really mature for his age and I see him get better each night. However elite offensive talent or even really good talent is so hard to find... if 8 plus reggie was the price I would have traded up.

 

Didn't even have to trade up, we had an elite forward prospect fall into our lap and passed on him. Nothing against Ristolainen but it was a stupid pick. This team has maybe three legitimate Top 6 forwards. Nichushkin was obviously the guy to take at #8 but, who would have thought, Darcy would rather stockpile defensemen than draft a star-potential forward.

 

I still don't understand why DR didn't outbid Ottawa for Bobby Ryan.

 

I thought the same thing. It really makes you wonder WTF is going on in Darcy's head. We have so much obvious trading ammunition with Vanek, Milller, Myers, not to mention some of the less obvious guys like a Ennis, or even Armia if that's who they wanted (I don't really know how Armia compares to Silfverberg) -- it's a rebuild, right? Personally I'm getting pretty sick of watching Ennis anyway. We definitely could have beaten Ottawa's offer but I guess Darcy just had no interest in adding a big bodied goal scorer. Shocking.

 

 

Bring in a Russian sniping winger to play with him and he improves drastically IMHO.

Edmonton appears to need a net minder.

Hey Darcy, how about swinging a deal for Yakupov?

 

Again, I agree. Rumors of the Oilers being open to trading Yakupov have been swirling for a while now, and with Vanek, Miller, Myers (all three filling needs for Edmonton) to trade, it would be just like Darcy to not even extend a phone call their way.

 

What I would have done is draft Nichushkin at #8 and trade whatever it took (Vanek, Miller, Myers, #16, second rounders, any combination) for Yakupov. Easier said than done I'm sure but we had the assets. Then imagine if we swung the deal for Bobby Ryan with the leftovers. The team might actually be fun to watch, and have some goal scorers moving forward. instead we're on the verge of losing our ONLY goal scorer for nothing, and probably drafting another defenseman with our top 5 pick.

 

i've defended darcy for far too long, even as recently as last summer. but after this year's draft, the failure to move vanek/miller this summer, no worth while free agents, selecting Rolston as head coach after interviewing approximately zero other candidates, the list goes on.. i've gone full deluca. this team ###### sucks.

 

i literally fell asleep during last night's game. first time i've slept through a sabres game in 10 years

[HopefulFuture]

Didn't even have to trade up, we had an elite forward prospect fall into our lap and passed on him. Nothing against Ristolainen but it was a stupid pick. This team has maybe three legitimate Top 6 forwards. Nichushkin was obviously the guy to take at #8 but, who would have thought, Darcy would rather stockpile defensemen than draft a star-potential forward.

 

Not that I disagree on the scoring side of your thoughts here, but defense definitely needed to be addressed if it was there and available. Both Risto and Zads were good, sound selections in the 8th and 16th spots respectively. And bare in mind, I'm one of the most ardent Regier haters.

 

I thought the same thing. It really makes you wonder WTF is going on in Darcy's head. We have so much obvious trading ammunition with Vanek, Milller, Myers, not to mention some of the less obvious guys like a Ennis, or even Armia if that's who they wanted (I don't really know how Armia compares to Silfverberg) -- it's a rebuild, right? Personally I'm getting pretty sick of watching Ennis anyway. We definitely could have beaten Ottawa's offer but I guess Darcy just had no interest in adding a big bodied goal scorer. Shocking.

I suspect the Rebuild was already an acceptance up at FNC's offices and Ryan, while a stellar addition, didn't meet the criteria for the youthful rebuild they were looking for. Particularly when looking at the return for a package of the caliber the Sabres would put out for him. Not to say your wrong in your thoughts, a Bobby Ryan/Cody Hodgson Winger/Center combo is nice looking and young enough, but I believe the big dogs up in the offices committed to a full on youth movement.

 

Again, I agree. Rumors of the Oilers being open to trading Yakupov have been swirling for a while now, and with Vanek, Miller, Myers (all three filling needs for Edmonton) to trade, it would be just like Darcy to not even extend a phone call their way.

This would make the most sense from both the Sabres and Oilers stand point. Even with Miller's UFA status, throw in a Pysyk and 1 of the 2nd rounders and say a Stafford, retain 50% of Millers salary this season and bring a salary dump back, I'm pretty sure it can be done. Not saying that package, but just an example of the type of play the Sabres have in making such an attempt at a deal. But in the end, your probably correct, hasn't even crossed DR's mind, depressing actually.

 

What I would have done is draft Nichushkin at #8 and trade whatever it took (Vanek, Miller, Myers, #16, second rounders, any combination) for Yakupov. Easier said than done I'm sure but we had the assets. Then imagine if we swung the deal for Bobby Ryan with the leftovers. The team might actually be fun to watch, and have some goal scorers moving forward. instead we're on the verge of losing our ONLY goal scorer for nothing, and probably drafting another defenseman with our top 5 pick.

This looks very inviting indeed and is, IMHO, the appex of what could have happened. But then again, I have to come back down to earth after I sweat through the night terrors I have at Darcy Regier still being our GM. Just another hard pressed depressing moment :(

[Kristian]

Fans were sold that he was an elite talent worthy of a top 3 selection. Since he's not even living up to 12th overall, the ###### has hit the fan. Almost every other first round pick from the last 2 years that I have seen in the NHL appears to be WAY ahead of him.

 

I'm having visions of Artem Kriukov.

[LGR4GM]

Yes. This is where it starts and ends. They all have more talent. It was on our scouts and GM to select the player with the most talent at 12 and they picked a guy who appears shouldn't have been drafted at all. That pick, along with every other move the GM has made or not made the last 6 years has given us this pile of garbage team.

I disagree. They failed when they didn't leave him in juniors last year and again when they forced him into the NHL again this year. Grigs is a 12th overall type pick. Most 12th overall guys don't start the their first year or the 2nd year. Most of the guys from the 2012 draft, pick just before or just after Grigorenko have not played in the NHL. The failure wasn't the draft but everything that happened after.

 

O and please don't point to Thomas Hertl, we all know he was drafted afterwards but having 1 guy in the entire first round drafted after Grigs play well is hardly proof of inept drafting.

[Robviously]

I'm having visions of Artem Kriukov.

This would make you the first of us to ever actually see Kriukov.

[HopefulFuture]

This would make you the first of us to ever actually see Kriukov.

 

:w00t:

[26CornerBlitz]

THN Article (Grigorenko Implications) Why Sean Monahan should be allowed to play in the AHL this season: http://www.thehockey...his-season.html

[LGR4GM]

Anyone else notice that Grigorenko has shown more and more flashes of "talent" in games. I saw him stick handle multiple times the other night and then make a good pass. His skating has improved and although his defensive game is questionable... I'll take one thing at a time. Wish Ron would have some faith in the kid because I think that is what he really needs right now.

 

O and to the threads ridiculous question... Yes it is to early to say a 12th overall pick with less than a full year of NHL experience who is only 19 is a bust.

[dudacek]

Kid has great hands and he definitely showed them in spurts his last couple games.

I want Ronnie to give him 10 minutes ES with two of Girgs, Larsson or Flynn, plus some second unit PP time.

We're already bad. It's not like we're going to start losing if Stafford and Ennis had their ice time cut by three or four minutes for a game or two.

[26CornerBlitz]

‏@BillHoppeNHL

Sabres just practiced with Grigorenko on the second PP unit and four forwards on the first. Was hard to tell the other point man w/Ehrhoff.