Is it Too early to put Grigo and Bust in the same sentence?

[WildCard]

somewhat on this thread, but if it's not a simple answer will suffice (not trying to derail it if it's off topic): Who is considered the number one talent in the upcoming draft? We've spent a lot on d-men, and if Grigs doesn't pan out and we trade Vanek, we're really going to need some scoring. Is there a highly-touted o-man we could snag and plug right in, kind of a way to absorb the loss of Grigs if he doesn't pan out?

[Weave]

I would place good money on the idea that Girgensons was the guy they had targeted, but once Grigorenko fell to them, they couldn't resist.

 

Wouldn't surprise me. Would explain the aggressive move to get into position to draft Girgs afterward.

 

somewhat on this thread, but if it's not a simple answer will suffice (not trying to derail it if it's off topic): Who is considered the number one talent in the upcoming draft? We've spent a lot on d-men, and if Grigs doesn't pan out and we trade Vanek, we're really going to need some scoring. Is there a highly-touted o-man we could snag and plug right in, kind of a way to absorb the loss of Grigs if he doesn't pan out?

 

the thread for this is right on the front page.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/22006-2014-draft/

[bunomatic]

At times Grigs puts in about as much effort as Hodgson. Problem is it appears he's emulating Cody when Codys floating around the defensive side of the game looking uninterested in trying, At other times he looks as good as Hodgson on the offensive side of the puck with his passing skills and vision. Point is Cody still has a ways to go to live up to his potential and he's way ahead of Grigs. Grigs is pretty dern green.

[Neo]

I'm viewing him as a 19 year old 12th over all. That gives him a year, or two, in my book. Sure, a blue chipper who slid would be a great surprise That doesn't change my expectation of him nor my assessment of the team's selection. He's an Armia, not a Tavares.

[Robviously]

IMO if you haven't seen flashes if Grigorenko's talent then you've been watching with blinders on. That's not to downplay his deficiencies to this point, but he has definitely shown his hands and vision occasionally. Will it amount to anything? Who the F knows.

Flashes of talent aren't all that exciting. Pretty much everyone can manage a flash of talent at some point. Rob Ray scored on his first NHL shot on his first NHL shift.

 

I'm not writing him off but I'm where I was at the end of last year: still no evidence that he's going to be anything special. That's not a disaster for someone his age -- except that the Sabres apparently have him penciled in as a future no.1 center. That's disconcerting.

[inkman]

This team is going to suck with or without the young guys, so IMO this season is about the development of the young guys at the NHL level.

No one has told Ron Ron this, he is coaching like his job depends on it. He needs to coach like his job depends on the development of the kids.

 

I would place good money on the idea that Girgensons was the guy they had targeted, but once Grigorenko fell to them, they couldn't resist.

The terribly ironic thing is that Darcy finally hiked up his skirt and showed the Russians his world and its going to bite him in the ass after going more than a decade of avoiding Ruskies like the plague.

[Hoss]

Yes, it's too early.

[Hawerchuk]

Can they send him down to AHL? That is where he belongs right now, in my opinion. He needs more time to develop before he's ready for the show. He's definitely an asset though.

[Two or less]

Yes, it's too early.

 

Yea, not sure what all the discussion is all about. Last year was a mistake, he should of never played in the NHL and should of been in the Q the entire time. Jumping to the NHL without any training camp was a big mistake by the Sabres. Several problems with Grigorenko- this is his true first year and he's very raw. He's not NHL ready but Sabres part of their rebuilding are trying to push him. Vladamir Tarasenko in St Louis didn't debut until he was 20, and he played with men prior, and i don't think anyone in Winnipeg is calling Mark Scheifele a bust and he's 20 now and has donuts in the NHL.

 

The other thing is, the Sabres are terrible. This isn't a Sabres team that has Drury/Kotalik and Briere/Dumont where Max, Vanek and Roy had all the time and space. We're easy to defend and he's got to develop on the fly. Has no room for error.

 

I think he'll be ok but its still way too early to tell. If you had any high expectations of Grigorenko for this season, you must of been one of the few who had playoff-like expectations for the Sabres. Just very unrealistic.

 

Can they send him down to AHL? That is where he belongs right now, in my opinion. He needs more time to develop before he's ready for the show. He's definitely an asset though.

 

No.

[nfreeman]

I'm with TrueBlue: The guy has shown flashes of the talent that made him a potential top-5 pick.

 

But Rolston's mantra of a guy's "compete" (I hate when verbs become nouns and vice-versa) is paramount here. And I'm sure that concept is not unique to our squad, either.

 

Grigorenko's "compete" is marginal, at best, and sometimes appears non-existent. Is it there, waiting to be unearthed once his brain catches up with the game? Or is it just not there? (Or perhaps not there in sufficient quantity?)

 

I agree with your post, but I'm concerned that you don't seem to want to focus-group the issue of benchmarking his compete.

 

I'd like to dialogue further, but I need to peace-out.

 

I think folks have to keep in mind that Grigorenko was a high risk, high reward pick. And I don't think Darcy tried to hide it. Most of the draft pundits had this kid pegged as having incredible talent but was no sure thing. We've had two straight years of one high risk, high reward picks paired with one sure thing. Last years draft it was Grigo as the roll-the-dice pick and Girgs as the sure thing. This year Risto was the sure thing and Zadarov was the flier. It should be no surprise if we walk away from those two first round drafts batting .500.

 

Grigo is a huge talent project. Projects usually take a bit of time. If he hits we are all going to wonder why we questioned him this early. But he may not hit.

 

Good post.

 

I'm viewing him as a 19 year old 12th over all. That gives him a year, or two, in my book. Sure, a blue chipper who slid would be a great surprise That doesn't change my expectation of him nor my assessment of the team's selection. He's an Armia, not a Tavares.

 

Also a good post, but what if Armia and Griggy both...

 

(I can't say it.)

 

Yea, not sure what all the discussion is all about. Last year was a mistake, he should of never played in the NHL and should of been in the Q the entire time. Jumping to the NHL without any training camp was a big mistake by the Sabres. Several problems with Grigorenko- this is his true first year and he's very raw. He's not NHL ready but Sabres part of their rebuilding are trying to push him. Vladamir Tarasenko in St Louis didn't debut until he was 20, and he played with men prior, and i don't think anyone in Winnipeg is calling Mark Scheifele a bust and he's 20 now and has donuts in the NHL.

 

The other thing is, the Sabres are terrible. This isn't a Sabres team that has Drury/Kotalik and Briere/Dumont where Max, Vanek and Roy had all the time and space. We're easy to defend and he's got to develop on the fly. Has no room for error.

 

I think he'll be ok but its still way too early to tell. If you had any high expectations of Grigorenko for this season, you must of been one of the few who had playoff-like expectations for the Sabres. Just very unrealistic.

 

Also a good post. I of course had low expectations of Griggy but playoff hopes. But I've always been schizo.

[TrueBlueGED]

Flashes of talent aren't all that exciting. Pretty much everyone can manage a flash of talent at some point. Rob Ray scored on his first NHL shot on his first NHL shift.

 

I'm not writing him off but I'm where I was at the end of last year: still no evidence that he's going to be anything special. That's not a disaster for someone his age -- except that the Sabres apparently have him penciled in as a future no.1 center. That's disconcerting.

 

Not saying flashes are all that exciting, but your Ray example really falls flat. Scoring a goal isn't flashing talent.

[Hawerchuk]

Yea, not sure what all the discussion is all about. Last year was a mistake, he should of never played in the NHL and should of been in the Q the entire time. Jumping to the NHL without any training camp was a big mistake by the Sabres. Several problems with Grigorenko- this is his true first year and he's very raw. He's not NHL ready but Sabres part of their rebuilding are trying to push him. Vladamir Tarasenko in St Louis didn't debut until he was 20, and he played with men prior, and i don't think anyone in Winnipeg is calling Mark Scheifele a bust and he's 20 now and has donuts in the NHL.

 

The other thing is, the Sabres are terrible. This isn't a Sabres team that has Drury/Kotalik and Briere/Dumont where Max, Vanek and Roy had all the time and space. We're easy to defend and he's got to develop on the fly. Has no room for error.

 

I think he'll be ok but its still way too early to tell. If you had any high expectations of Grigorenko for this season, you must of been one of the few who had playoff-like expectations for the Sabres. Just very unrealistic.

 

 

 

No.

Is it because he's only 18? Do you have to be 19 for the AHL? I'm clearly not understanding these rules??!

[Nitro60]

He needs to work on his skating. The Sabres invested in the young man and I am sure they are scratching their heads over it. I have seen video of him and he has talent but I am wondering if he has the heart or the dedication to improve. If he stagnates this year, he will be gone by the end of his 3rd year because he still will have value due to his youth and entry contract.

[...]

 

 

The more things change...

 

I think this is the most important observation in this thread so far. A team that can't score, can't mount a reliable PP, routinely hangs their goalie out to dry, passes too much, but has a gutted roster and a new coaching staff...

 

Hmmmm...

[Weave]

Is it because he's only 18? Do you have to be 19 for the AHL? I'm clearly not understanding these rules??!

 

If you played in the Canadian major junior leagues you cannot play in the AHL until you are 20.

 

Seems like someone has to explain this once a week.

[26CornerBlitz]

If you played in the Canadian major junior leagues you cannot play in the AHL until you are 20.

 

Seems like someone has to explain this once a week.

 

The Sabres actually tried to get a waiver for Grigorenko to play in the AHL this season at 19, but they were rebuffed by the CHL. It's either Buffalo or back to Junior for Grigs this season.

[Weave]

The Sabres actually tried to get a waiver for Grigorenko to play in the AHL this season at 19, but they were rebuffed by the CHL. It's either Buffalo or back to Junior for Grigs this season.

 

Yeah, I heard about he attempt to get a waiver too. It would have been unprecedented.

 

I almost wonder if Grigo would be better served being loaned out the the Swedish Elite League or maybe the KHL? I know there are risks involved but those are two very good leagues that are higher level than the Q but not NHL level. I am starting to form the opinion that it might be worth the risk.

 

Hell, the larger ice surfaces might do him some good.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

In short, yes.

 

 

 

The Sabres actually tried to get a waiver for Grigorenko to play in the AHL this season at 19, but they were rebuffed by the CHL. It's either Buffalo or back to Junior for Grigs this season.

that definitely explains alot. Speaking of players that could use some AHL time, how about Myers? Damn his feelings, something drastic needs to happen there...

[LGR4GM]

In short, yes.

 

that definitely explains alot. Speaking of players that could use some AHL time, how about Myers? Damn his feelings, something drastic needs to happen there...

Tyler Myers would never clear waivers. He could use some AHL time though. I'd like to add that what they do with Zadorov this year is something I am watching with trepidation. He should go back to the OHL but I can see these idiots keeping him here and pulling another Myers.

 

what did we say earlier? Wash, Rinse, Repeat?

 

I should add that Armia, Girgorenko and Larsson should all go to the AHL too. Risto can go as well. This team isn't going to compete for much this season and these guys could use the AHL to learn and improve. Next season they could come up and be strong players who have had an entire year playing top minutes together.

 

Darcy Regier is the reason this doesn't happen and it sickens me.

[Marvelo]

He might be a beast in Juniors, but does Grigorenko's game translate to the NHL? I refer to Don Meyer's 4 types of players...We know at this point that Grigo is incompetent but is he unconcious AND incompetent?

 

http://hoopthoughts....of-players.html

 

The Sabres are desperate for good hockey players. It's a new owner who has no clue about hockey, a rookie NHL coach and an unpopular incumbent GM who has very little track record drafting well. They have so much youth on the team that it appears their desperation to win outweighs their concern for ruining young players. This might be happening on a mass scale here.

[Peppy22]

As of now things arent going well. However when I look at the TOI/G stats for forwards and the young guys are 9th(girgensons) 11th(grigorenko) 13th(Larsson) I am disappointed. I think that those young players are not there yet potential wise, but I wish they would just play them +15 minutes a game. Let them make mistakes and let them learn. "Learning by doing" Of course that will lead to mistakes and losses but I think thats what young players need. Continue to develop in all situations at every time and not around 10min per game. I think fans would take a loss where the guys like girgensons grigorenko and so on are out on the ice for the majority of the time over one with ennis, stafford or porter out there all the time. I am wondering if we will reach a point this season where Rolston says:"Ok lets ride those young kids now and let them learn. Nothing to lose here"

 

I think that could help Grigorenko a lot as well. Dont forget he has so much pressure on his shoulders as many see him as the savior of the franchise

[Two or less]

Is it because he's only 18? Do you have to be 19 for the AHL? I'm clearly not understanding these rules??!

If you played in the Canadian major junior leagues you cannot play in the AHL until you are 20.

 

Seems like someone has to explain this once a week.

 

Exactly. Furthermore, in case you still don't understand the rule, it is in place to protect the integrity of the Canadian junior leagues. Canadian hockey officials felt that if players could go to AHL, teams nowadays would be more likely to send guys there so they can be coached but their own coaches, ect. Girgensons never played in Canadian junior leagues, thus he played in Rochester last season at age 18.

 

Hope that makes sense now.

[dudacek]

I'm all for learn by doing, but the coach walks a dangerous line when he deliberately sits the guys that aren't giving him his best chance to win

Every team plays to win and operates on the understanding that the players who are playing the best should play.

 

If the guys in the dressing room think Porter is a warrior who helps them win and Girgorenko is a princess who does not and Grigorenko is consistently playing more than Porter, the coach is creating a problem.

 

In addition to teaching, Rolston is also charged with creating a culture of accountability. His mantra has been consistent: be fast, hard and conscientious about the details.

In order to have any credibility, he has to reward the players who are buying into the program and demand more from the players who are not.

 

I have no doubt his decisions about playing time are based on his perceptions about which players are best responding.

[Kristian]

Tyler Myers would never clear waivers. He could use some AHL time though. I'd like to add that what they do with Zadorov this year is something I am watching with trepidation. He should go back to the OHL but I can see these idiots keeping him here and pulling another Myers.

 

what did we say earlier? Wash, Rinse, Repeat?

 

I should add that Armia, Girgorenko and Larsson should all go to the AHL too. Risto can go as well. This team isn't going to compete for much this season and these guys could use the AHL to learn and improve. Next season they could come up and be strong players who have had an entire year playing top minutes together.

 

Darcy Regier is the reason this doesn't happen and it sickens me.

 

Yeah, it's another lousy rerun of Groundhog Day.

 

Any chance T-Pegs told Darcy that unless the kids show some kind of sign they belong in the NHL this year, his outta here?

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt Darcy is the one putting all these kids in the line of fire, with a new coach, and only lazy bum veterans for guidance. But seeing as one of Darcy's great faults is his extreme patience with his players, why on earth is he playing the youngsters? Is he days away from clearing out his desk?

 

Probably wishful thinking, it's more likely he doesn't have clue how to manage talent.

[Derrico]

No one has told Ron Ron this, he is coaching like his job depends on it. He needs to coach like his job depends on the development of the kids.

 

BINGO!! This is exactly what he should be directed to do. I don't give two sh!ts about where we finish this season as long as the young guys are improving. It's only a small handful of games in so I'll be patient but there is the possibility he gets scratched tonight. Really?! Give the kid a bunch of ice time and let him develop!! I don't care if Stafford gives you a slightly better chance to win the game tonight!

 

#FreeGrigorenko