Miller.......what if?

[TrueBlueGED]

You need great goaltending to win a Cup, although it doesn't necessarily mean you need a great goaltender. It all goes back to playing the odds. He odds that some relatively unknown goalie will get hot for some sort of a playoff run are pretty good. The odds that *your* relatively unknown goaltender is the one that gets hot? Well, those odds are significantly worse. There's also the chance that your cheap solution flames out in spectacular fashion, which are much higher than the odds an upper tier goaltender does the same.

 

I think reducing the performance variance and making your goaltending a bit more predictable is worth paying for, in general. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to give a long term deal to Miller with where the Sabres are as an organization. In my estimation he'll be past his prime by the time the Sabres are really a contender even if we try to UFA our way to a competitive state.

 

Impressive list, but those goalies didn't win the Cups, the teams in front of them did however. Look at your list, pre 05 lockout, trap defenses with young elite talent on the front end.

Post 05, it's all about the young elite, clutch front end talent. About the only series I see where goalies made a difference was the Bruins/Canucks series. Other than that series, it was the elite, young scoring talent that made the difference, not the goal tending.

 

So are the front offices for these Cup winners completely inept? Because they've been giving their cheap goaltenders quite lucrative contracts.

[HopefulFuture]

You need great goaltending to win a Cup, although it doesn't necessarily mean you need a great goaltender. It all goes back to playing the odds. He odds that some relatively unknown goalie will get hot for some sort of a playoff run are pretty good. The odds that *your* relatively unknown goaltender is the one that gets hot? Well, those odds are significantly worse. There's also the chance that your cheap solution flames out in spectacular fashion, which are much higher than the odds an upper tier goaltender does the same.

 

I think reducing the performance variance and making your goaltending a bit more predictable is worth paying for, in general. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to give a long term deal to Miller with where the Sabres are as an organization. In my estimation he'll be past his prime by the time the Sabres are really a contender even if we try to UFA our way to a competitive state.

 

 

 

So are the front offices for these Cup winners completely inept? Because they've been giving their cheap goaltenders quite lucrative contracts.

 

This question cannot be answered as it's a TRAP! ;)

Buffalo doesn't have the front end elite clutch scoring talent the Cup winners do. They addressed the forward ranks in a very serious fashion.

[TrueBlueGED]

This question cannot be answered as it's a TRAP! ;)

Buffalo doesn't have the front end elite clutch scoring talent the Cup winners do. They addressed the forward ranks in a very serious fashion.

 

And you didn't fall for it! No fun :P

 

I'm right there with you on building the forward ranks, but with the Sabres, unless you're talking about our chances at McDavid I don't see an opportunity cost to paying a goaltender. We have oodles of cap space and the list of UFAs I'd be interested in throwing it at is not long.

[sicknfla]

Ok

2003 - Devils w/ Marty Brodeur over Ducks w/ Giguere

2004 - Lightning w/ Khabibulin over Flames w/ Kipprusoff

2005 - Lockout (No Cup)

2006 - Huricanes w/ Gerber/Ward over Oilers w/ Roloson/Conklin

2007 - Ducks w/ Giguere/Bryzgalov over Sens w/ Emery

2008 - Red Wings w/ Osgood/Hasek over Pens w/ Fleury

2009 - Pens w/ Fleury over Red Wings w/ Osgood

2010 - Blackhawks w/ Niemi over Flyers w/ Emery/Boucher/Leighton

2011 - Bruins w/ Thomas over Canucks w/ Luongo

2012 - Kings w/ Quick over Devils w/ Brodeur

2013 - Blackhawks w/ Crawford/Emery over Bruins w/ Rask

 

I included both the cup winners and losers, and looking over the list, I see a mix of guys who have had huge success in the League (Like Brodeur), have been to the cup finals multiple times (Emery), guys who were selected high in the draft (Fleury) and guys who flamed out (Boucher/Leighton)

 

What I don't see is any pattern that is saying that you don't have to have a good/great goaltender to be a cup contender. 2006 and 2010 might be the only years where the goaltenders in the finals were not impressive guys who went on to great careers (Cam Ward did, but he was the backup to Gerber IIRC, Niemi worked his cup win into a very nice starting job and deal in SJ, and Emery could have had a pretty good career if it wasn't for injuries and to a lesser extent, his attitude)

 

You only suggested going back 10 years, probably because if you go back further, you start getting into cups won by Roy and more by guys like Brodeur, and a few by Osgood who seems to have been a very underrated goaltender

 

I never said you didn't need good goaltending. I simply asked if we needed a mid-late 30 GT making 8m a year. Looking at that list you don't have many guys that would demand 8m but yet they have either won or played for the Cup.

 

The goalie of this era is similar to the running back in football. Fewer and fewer teams use #1 picks on them and more and more have learned that you don't need a superstar to win a championship.

[JJFIVEOH]

For the record, I didn't bring any of this on. :flirt:

[sicknfla]

For the record, I didn't bring any of this on. :flirt:

 

someone needed to stir the pot. Been kind of quiet around here. Nice to have a civilized debate going for a change.

[Eleven]

I still think that, absent an injury, the Sabres will have a tough time getting more than a second-round pick (if that!) for him. Again, teams that are contenders are rarely in need of a goalie to put them over the top. I'd rather take the chance w/ him in free agency, if there's not going to be a return.

[Hoss]

I still think that, absent an injury, the Sabres will have a tough time getting more than a second-round pick (if that!) for him. Again, teams that are contenders are rarely in need of a goalie to put them over the top. I'd rather take the chance w/ him in free agency, if there's not going to be a return.

 

If they were actively trying to move him this offseason or early in the season they could've gotten a nice deal. Another reminder why I'm glad Darcy is gone. Total mismanagement of an asset.

[sicknfla]

It will have to be the perfect scenario (injury) for them to get a #1.

[Taro T]

goaltenders are irrelevant in hockey. They do not take shots, nor do they prevent shots against (the only thing that matters for possession stats) so you could playin net for any team in the NHL and it would not affect them at all.

I get that this is hyperbole, but the Phlyers have been looking for a real goalie for at least 20 years. How many times did their inability to adequately evaluate goaltending talent cost them a shot at the SC?

 

I do not want to see the Sabres getting rid of Miller unless he flat out won't re-sign.

[SwampD]

goaltenders are irrelevant in hockey. They do not take shots, nor do they prevent shots against (the only thing that matters for possession stats) so you could playin net for any team in the NHL and it would not affect them at all.

Tell that to the next guy waiting for a juicy rebound off a bad goalie (see: John Scott).

[Hoss]

Tell that to the next guy waiting for a juicy rebound off a bad goalie (see: John Scott).

 

Bernier isn't a bad goalie.

[SwampD]

Bernier isn't a bad goalie.

He was in the first period.

[Eleven]

I get that this is hyperbole, but the Phlyers have been looking for a real goalie for at least 20 years. How many times did their inability to adequately evaluate goaltending talent cost them a shot at the SC?

 

I do not want to see the Sabres getting rid of Miller unless he flat out won't re-sign.

 

Is this my annual opportunity to say that the Flyers goaltending hit a wall in the eighties?

 

Bernier isn't a bad goalie.

 

He isn't a great one, either.

[Hoss]

He isn't a great one, either.

 

Nobody said he was.

[Taro T]

Is this my annual opportunity to say that the Flyers goaltending hit a wall in the eighties?

 

...

:lol:

 

I guess it is.

[darksabre]

Bernier is good enough to be a starting goalie on a Cup team. Think Blackhawks rather than Leafs.

 

I'd take him over Enroth, that's for sure.

[Hoss]

Bernier is good enough to be a starting goalie on a Cup team. Think Blackhawks rather than Leafs.

 

I'd take him over Enroth, that's for sure.

 

Agreed.

[apuszczalowski]

For those that think the Caps would be a good fit, here is part of the return they could get for Miller........

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/24392060/nhl-rumors-michal-neuvirth-latest-capital-to-ask-for-trade

[Hoss]

One thing to consider is that Miller might not want to resign until he gets a chance to talk to the new GM. He might want to know what direction he wants to take the team. Considering that we don't have one and time is running out to resign him before the deadline I'd still say chances are very high that he leaves via trade or free agency.

[nfreeman]

One thing to consider is that Miller might not want to resign until he gets a chance to talk to the new GM. He might want to know what direction he wants to take the team. Considering that we don't have one and time is running out to resign him before the deadline I'd still say chances are very high that he leaves via trade or free agency.

 

I would say that this is a near-certainty -- i.e. if there is any chance of keeping him, he will need to be sold a rosy picture by the new GM. I suppose PLF could tell him that the GM won't be hired until the summer, and PLF could sell him the rosy picture himself, but this seems less likely to be successful than bringing in a well-regarded GM candidate and then having that GM and PLF pitching a specific plan to Miller.

 

Also worth noting that Paul Hamilton said in the postgame show last night that the ball is in Miller's court -- i.e. the Sabres have made it clear that they want to talk extension and he hasn't responded yet. Now, Hammy may or may not be correct, but this sounds pretty plausible IMHO.

[Huckleberry]

well hope we can keep Miller now, If some of you think Hackett should get a shot at the NHL i have to dissapoint you.

I've seen some spengler cup games and tbh :sick:

 

I'll stick with Enroth over Hackett anytime.

[Hoss]

well hope we can keep Miller now, If some of you think Hackett should get a shot at the NHL i have to dissapoint you.

I've seen some spengler cup games and tbh :sick:

 

I'll stick with Enroth over Hackett anytime.

 

If we trade Miller, it's because he doesn't want to be here. So it's not really the team's choice. So it doesn't matter what we have beyond him. And, if we trade him, we're going to suck anyways. So might as well suck as much as possible.

[26CornerBlitz]

Campbell: Miller locked and loaded for Sochi, trade deadline

 

By: Ken Campbell (THN) on December 29, 2013

 

 

BUFFALO – If the Buffalo Sabres are intent on trading Ryan Millerthis season, they should speed up their search for a GM and hire one as soon as possible. Because Miller’s value on the trade market can’t possibly get any higher than it is right now.

 

In what has become a cruel irony for Sabres fans, Miller has played better this season than he has in years, perhaps the best he’s played in his career. And the Sabres are in last place overall. Should they stay there and Miller doesn’t get dealt, he should receive serious consideration to be the first goalie in league history to win the Vezina and play for a last-place team. (In 1953-54, Al Rollins of the Chicago Black Hawks was named MVP despite the fact the Hawks were 12-51-7 and gave up a league-high 242 goals.)

 

And Miller has not been better this season than he was on Sunday, stopping 49 shots in regulation and overtime and six more in the shootout to lift the Sabres to a 2-1 shootout victory over the Washington Capitals. To put how badly the ice was tilted into perspective, Alex Ovechkin had 12 shots in the first 65 minutes, which was five fewer than the Sabres entire roster.

[Hoss]

Campbell: Miller locked and loaded for Sochi, trade deadline

 

Look up a few posts. :flirt: I didn't put the actual text because I wasn't really sure how people around here react to that. Another board I'm on they all bitch and say it waters down the threads.