Vanek: ‘I didn’t ask to be traded’

[papazoid]

“I never asked to be traded so when people do mention it, I’m surprised. Did I think I was going to get traded, no because I never once went in there and said I don’t want to be here. I said, ‘Right now I’m not looking for an extension, but not saying that I wouldn’t want one down the road, but right now I just want to see where it goes’.”

 

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/28/vanek-i-didnt-ask-to-be-traded/

 

 

I loved this comment:

 

He’s not looking for an extension and he’s not looking to be a part of a rebuild. Man…for a guy who’s not asking to be traded, he’s just ASKING to be traded.

[Huckleberry]

Can't blame him, he is in his prime, If he wants a shot at winning now he has to go elsewhere.

[Buffalo Wings]

I won't be shocked to see him and/or Miller gone by the deadline if the Sabres are nowhere close to a playoff spot.

[LGR4GM]

Wo wo wo. First link to the story from WGR that has 10x more context than that pro hockey talk piece. http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-Vanek-didn-t-ask-for-a-trade/17157154

 

Second, Vanek said:

“Is a rebuild what I wanted, no, but I’m open to it and I want to see where it leads to first.”

 

“I do believe that the guys that they drafted this year and in the past are good players, but with young guys you never know. I would like to see where we’re at and I have that option so, I’m taking it.”

 

 

Sounds to me like Vanek wants to see if the rebuild is heading in the right direction and if so he would be interested in staying.

[Kristian]

I won't be shocked to see him and/or Miller gone by the deadline if the Sabres are nowhere close to a playoff spot.

 

I fully expect both will fetch a nice 2nd rounder. A clear upgrade over what we usually get for our best players.

 

Mike Peca - Tin Man Connolly, Taylor Pyatt

Dominik Hasek - Kozlov

Miro Satan - Nothing (UFA)

Alexei Zhitnik - Nothing (UFA)

Danny Briere - Nothing (UFA)

Chris Drury - Nothing (UFA)

Jay McKee - Nothing (UFA)

Maxim Afinogenov - Nothing (UFA)

 

 

Yup, Darcy's definitely getting market value out of his assets.

 

The fact that both Satan, Zhitnik and Max were amongst out best players at a point in time speaks volumes.

 

*Edit - Dunno why I though the Pominville trade was a 2nd rounder, must be getting old.

[LGR4GM]

I fully expect both fetch a nice 2nd rounder. A clear upgrade over what we usually get for our best players.

 

Mike Peca - Tin Man Connolly, Taylor Pyatt

Dominik Hasek - Kozlov

Miro Satan - Nothing (UFA)

Alexei Zhitnik - Nothing (UFA)

Danny Briere - Nothing (UFA)

Chris Drury - Nothing (UFA)

Jay McKee - Nothing (UFA)

Jason Pominville - 2nd Rounder

 

Yup, Darcy's definitely getting market value out of his assets.

Jason Pominville got us the #16overall (Zadorov), 2nd round this coming year, Larsson (56overall) and Hackett (77overall)

[Kristian]

Jason Pominville got us the #16overall (Zadorov), 2nd round this coming year, Larsson (56overall) and Hackett (77overall)

 

You're absolutely right, just didn't get my edit through until you had already started replying :doh:

[TrueBlueGED]

I fully expect both will fetch a nice 2nd rounder. A clear upgrade over what we usually get for our best players.

 

Mike Peca - Tin Man Connolly, Taylor Pyatt

Dominik Hasek - Kozlov

Miro Satan - Nothing (UFA)

Alexei Zhitnik - Nothing (UFA)

Danny Briere - Nothing (UFA)

Chris Drury - Nothing (UFA)

Jay McKee - Nothing (UFA)

Maxim Afinogenov - Nothing (UFA)

 

 

Yup, Darcy's definitely getting market value out of his assets.

 

The fact that both Satan, Zhitnik and Max were amongst out best players at a point in time speaks volumes.

 

*Edit - Dunno why I though the Pominville trade was a 2nd rounder, must be getting old.

 

Vanek will get significantly more than a 2nd. To suggest otherwise is to be unnecessarily stupid.

[nfreeman]

Vanek will get significantly more than a 2nd. To suggest otherwise is to be unnecessarily stupid.

 

And to call someone stupid on this board is to be unnecessarily obnoxious.

[TrueBlueGED]

And to call someone stupid on this board is to be unnecessarily obnoxious.

 

Posts that are purposely obnoxious deserve a purposely obnoxious response. The Peca trade returned way more than a 2nd rounder, and Kozlov was also more than a second. Additionally, he conveniently ignores the Gaustad trade, the Leopold and Regehr trades, and to a lesser extent the Kassian trade. All to predict a 2nd round pick for Vanek for no reason other than to be a pessimistic dick, and with nothing to support such an assertion.

[Kristian]

Vanek will get significantly more than a 2nd. To suggest otherwise is to be unnecessarily stupid.

 

We'll see about that, until then your opinion is just that - Your opinion.

 

Posts that are purposely obnoxious deserve a purposely obnoxious response. The Peca trade returned way more than a 2nd rounder, and Kozlov was also more than a second. Additionally, he conveniently ignores the Gaustad trade, the Leopold and Regehr trades, and to a lesser extent the Kassian trade. All to predict a 2nd round pick for Vanek for no reason other than to be a pessimistic dick, and with nothing to support such an assertion.

 

Go on, tell us how you really feel?

 

My post was about value for top players, Gaustad, Regehr or Kassian were never top players here, and if they were, it speaks more to the sad state of the franchise than anything.

 

Just establishing a pattern, that value for top players is not one of Darcy's stronger suits, you don't like it, fine.

 

Do I care? Not in the slightest.

[SwampD]

Posts that are purposely obnoxious deserve a purposely obnoxious response. The Peca trade returned way more than a 2nd rounder, and Kozlov was also more than a second. Additionally, he conveniently ignores the Gaustad trade, the Leopold and Regehr trades, and to a lesser extent the Kassian trade. All to predict a 2nd round pick for Vanek for no reason other than to be a pessimistic dick, and with nothing to support such an assertion.

If you don't look at that list and not find it upsetting then I don't know what to say. I actually think that list deserves to be here

So What Really Does Stop This Team From being Good

[Kristian]

My point is, Darcy has a nasty habit of holding on to his assets until their value drops.

 

Be it because they stop performing, or their contracts come close expiring, it really doesn't matter.

 

Why would any team in their right mind give up value for Thomas Vanek at the deadline?

 

Any takers for him would likely be a contender, looking for an offensive boost, and a team like that is not going to give up much other than picks or prospects for a rental, regardless who he is.

 

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but the fact is the longer either Vanek or Miller stays, the more their value is going to drop, simply because their contracts are expiring.

 

Sure he might fetch more than a 2nd rounder, which may be bad sarcasm on my part, but anyone thinking established hockey players are going to be part of a deal involving Miller or Vanek at the deadline are mistaken.

 

The time to deal either were last march.

[waldo]

And to call someone stupid on this board is to be unnecessarily obnoxious.

 

+1

[Lanny]

Any takers for him would likely be a contender, looking for an offensive boost, and a team like that is not going to give up much other than picks or prospects for a rental, regardless who he is.

 

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but the fact is the longer either Vanek or Miller stays, the more their value is going to drop, simply because their contracts are expiring.

 

Sure he might fetch more than a 2nd rounder, which may be bad sarcasm on my part, but anyone thinking established hockey players are going to be part of a deal involving Miller or Vanek at the deadline are mistaken.

 

The time to deal either were last march.

 

That's all they were likely to get at that point as well, similar to Pominville.

[TrueBlueGED]

We'll see about that, until then your opinion is just that - Your opinion.

 

Technically "the sun will come up tomorrow" is an opinion until it actually happens. Yes, Vanek garnering more in a trade than a 2nd round pick is equivalent to predicting the sun will come up tomorrow.

 

Go on, tell us how you really feel?

 

My post was about value for top players, Gaustad, Regehr or Kassian were never top players here, and if they were, it speaks more to the sad state of the franchise than anything.

 

Just establishing a pattern, that value for top players is not one of Darcy's stronger suits, you don't like it, fine.

 

Do I care? Not in the slightest.

 

You can't say he doesn't get value for top players and misjudge the return on some trades all while completely ignore mitigating circumstances. First of all, former top-5 and former top-10 picks for Peca was good value, regardless of how those prospects turned out. Comparable: Kessel to Toronto for two 1sts. Second, Hasek completely handcuffed the team. He refused to go to any but a few teams, and would have refused to approve any trade which took too much from the roster of his destination. And Kozlov was still worth way more than a 2nd round pick. We don't really have to rehash Black Sunday, do we? Regier certainly wasn't blameless, but dropping 100% of the blame at his feet isn't exactly fair either.

 

Second, do you believe that losing players in free agency is equivalent to getting nothing for them in a trade? Because the premise in your original post was that if Vanek is traded, Regier will be unable to get good value, and will settle on a 2nd round pick. Your evidence then proceeded to be two trades which actually did return good value, and a series of departures via free agency. There's simply no evidence that suggests Regier fails to get proper value in trades for his players, be they top players or mid-tier players. He gets his value. How quickly we forget Michael Grosek for Dumont and Gilmour.

 

I'll even go out on a limb and say there's a better chance Vanek walks for nothing than we take a 2nd round pick for him. If the best we can do at the deadline is a 2nd rounder, I think Regier says screw it, hangs onto him and keeps trying to re-sign him even at the risk of losing him for nothing.

 

My point is, Darcy has a nasty habit of holding on to his assets until their value drops.

 

Be it because they stop performing, or their contracts come close expiring, it really doesn't matter.

 

Why would any team in their right mind give up value for Thomas Vanek at the deadline?

 

Any takers for him would likely be a contender, looking for an offensive boost, and a team like that is not going to give up much other than picks or prospects for a rental, regardless who he is.

 

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but the fact is the longer either Vanek or Miller stays, the more their value is going to drop, simply because their contracts are expiring.

 

Sure he might fetch more than a 2nd rounder, which may be bad sarcasm on my part, but anyone thinking established hockey players are going to be part of a deal involving Miller or Vanek at the deadline are mistaken.

 

The time to deal either were last march.

 

I completely agree that Regier holds on too long, and Vanek's value would have been maximized in an offseason deal. Even then, I don't think Vanek and Miller were returning established players--maybe Vanek could land a single one, but that's it. Picks/prospects was always the realistic return (just look at the Nash and Gaborik deals, which were picks/prospects and an unspectacular roster player or in Nash's case, two). Anybody thinking we were getting legit top-6 talent or blue-chip prospects were fooling themselves from day one. And just because Vanek's value won't be maximized, that doesn't mean his value plummets to a 2nd round pick at the deadline. Jay Feaster, whose incompetence makes Regier legitimately look good, was able to get a 1st round pick and two decent prospects for 36 year old, expiring contract Iginla. Douglas Murray, pylon extraordinaire, returned two 2nds. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Suggesting Vanek returns only a 2nd at the deadline has no basis in recent history, be it the Sabres or the NHL as a whole.

 

If you don't look at that list and not find it upsetting then I don't know what to say. I actually think that list deserves to be here

So What Really Does Stop This Team From being Good

 

I never said I didn't find it upsetting. I don't find it applicable to Vanek's trade value at the deadline.

[waldo]

http://www.cbssports...p-a-possibility

 

must be a slow day when they pick up ecklund rumors

 

get ryan o too darcy

[...]

Well, I suppose the adult has spoken. The rest of us can take our Sabres dolls and go pout. If Vanek and Miller walk as UFAs, then I think that equals getting NOTHING for them...period. And if you get NOTHING for your most valuable assets, then you've f*cked up.

[TrueBlueGED]

Well, I suppose the adult has spoken. The rest of us can take our Sabres dolls and go pout. If Vanek and Miller walk as UFAs, then I think that equals getting NOTHING for them...period. And if you get NOTHING for your most valuable assets, then you've f*cked up.

 

Which addresses approximately 1% of my point. Obviously that would be a disaster, and I've never stated otherwise. My rant was based on the idea Vanek only gets a 2nd at the deadline which is patently absurd.

[nfreeman]

My point is, Darcy has a nasty habit of holding on to his assets until their value drops.

 

Be it because they stop performing, or their contracts come close expiring, it really doesn't matter.

 

Why would any team in their right mind give up value for Thomas Vanek at the deadline?

 

Any takers for him would likely be a contender, looking for an offensive boost, and a team like that is not going to give up much other than picks or prospects for a rental, regardless who he is.

 

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but the fact is the longer either Vanek or Miller stays, the more their value is going to drop, simply because their contracts are expiring.

 

Sure he might fetch more than a 2nd rounder, which may be bad sarcasm on my part, but anyone thinking established hockey players are going to be part of a deal involving Miller or Vanek at the deadline are mistaken.

 

The time to deal either were last march.

I completely agree that Regier holds on too long, and Vanek's value would have been maximized in an offseason deal. Even then, I don't think Vanek and Miller were returning established players--maybe Vanek could land a single one, but that's it. Picks/prospects was always the realistic return (just look at the Nash and Gaborik deals, which were picks/prospects and an unspectacular roster player or in Nash's case, two). Anybody thinking we were getting legit top-6 talent or blue-chip prospects were fooling themselves from day one. And just because Vanek's value won't be maximized, that doesn't mean his value plummets to a 2nd round pick at the deadline. Jay Feaster, whose incompetence makes Regier legitimately look good, was able to get a 1st round pick and two decent prospects for 36 year old, expiring contract Iginla. Douglas Murray, pylon extraordinaire, returned two 2nds. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Suggesting Vanek returns only a 2nd at the deadline has no basis in recent history, be it the Sabres or the NHL as a whole.

 

I agree that the best time for dealing either Vanek or Miller was the 2013 deadline -- although I don't think you're looking at a legit blue-chip, established NHL player coming back even then -- just a Pommer-style bounty, albeit better in the case of Vanek and probably worse in the case of Miller.

 

I don't think the difference in return between trading either of them this summer vs at the 2014 deadline would be significant, and frankly the return will probably be better at the 2014 deadline -- or at least not much worse -- and any spread would probably be made up by the benefit of having them for 70% of the season.

 

My bottom line: DR is accountable for the finished product and should have been canned. I agree that he waits too long to make moves. I do not believe that by waiting too long he depresses the value he gets in return for trades -- there are plenty of examples to the contrary, as TBPHD pointed out, and I would like to see someone cite a single example of a depressed return for a player traded too late.

[LTS]

Blah blah blah.. noise. It's all I hear anymore.

 

Vanek is being totally open about his stance. He's playing it out. It's out of his hands anyway other than choosing to sign an extension. He doesn't control getting traded. His options include playing for the Sabres or not playing for the Sabres and not getting paid. He's going to see how they are on the ice and I think he's smart enough to know that if he does not sign an extension by the trade deadline he'll be dealt.

 

This assumption that there was/is a trade of value out there for Vanek that Darcy refused to take is also entertaining. I must have missed that somewhere.

[That Aud Smell]

Any takers for him would likely be a contender, looking for an offensive boost, and a team like that is not going to give up much other than picks or prospects for a rental, regardless who he is.

 

Getting a first for Vanek from a contending team is, in essence, getting a second round pick. My sense (completely unfounded) is that 1st rounders in the bottom third of a draft will "hit" about as frequently as guys picked in the top of the 2nd round.

 

Also agree with LTS: 26 could not be more open and honest about where he's at with the current state of things.

 

Remember that Boston game from this past season where Vanek scored at hattie (and had 5 points)? It is sorta fun having a player on your team who can take over a game like that.

[JJFIVEOH]

I completely agree with almost everything TB has said here.

 

And in my opinion, if Vanek can only fetch a 2nd rounder at the deadline, I would hold on to him also in hopes of signing him in the off-season. I don't think some people realize the value he has on this team, not to mention he might flourish even more under Rolston in that Vanek and Ruff never saw eye to eye. Plus Vanek may also welcome the idea that he is now THE veteran Sabre on the team and he might even get the C. I'll chance losing Vanek if the only return is a 2nd.

[...]

Which addresses approximately 1% of my point. Obviously that would be a disaster, and I've never stated otherwise. My rant was based on the idea Vanek only gets a 2nd at the deadline which is patently absurd.

 

I think it would be absurd if it happened, but I think it's ridiculous to dismiss the notion as absurd. Vanek has pretty much set it up that he will be available to the league as a UFA, so why would any team waste any assets on a trade for him? The only thing they would be trading for would be the "right" to negotiate "first" with Vanek, and under the new CBA even this has changed.

 

I think the Sabres organization is still prone to panicking at the last minute for an underwhelming return - see the Sekera trade. And, the Sabres have a history of taking pending UFAs to the wire...and then losing them (which is worse than accepting a second). So, while you can make a case for reasonable deals, there are just as many unreasonable deals (or no deals) in the Sabres recent past. Which way will Vanek's situation pan out? Magic 8 Ball, where are you?

 

One can be obnoxiously negative, but one can also be obnoxiously positive, too.

[LGR4GM]

Personally I think Cody Hodgson is the key to getting Vanek to resign. 5years without a center and Vanek still has very good numbers. If Hodgson can develop and be a key member of the team I think Vanek will resign.

 

This is my personal opinion, CoHo is the key to Van.

 

I think it would be absurd if it happened, but I think it's ridiculous to dismiss the notion as absurd. Vanek has pretty much set it up that he will be available to the league as a UFA, so why would any team waste any assets on a trade for him? The only thing they would be trading for would be the "right" to negotiate "first" with Vanek, and under the new CBA even this has changed.

 

I think the Sabres organization is still prone to panicking at the last minute for an underwhelming return - see the Sekera trade. And, the Sabres have a history of taking pending UFAs to the wire...and then losing them (which is worse than accepting a second). So, while you can make a case for reasonable deals, there are just as many unreasonable deals (or no deals) in the Sabres recent past. Which way will Vanek's situation pan out? Magic 8 Ball, where are you?

 

One can be obnoxiously negative, but one can also be obnoxiously positive, too.

You think it would be absurd if a team traded Picks and Prospects for Thomas Vanek at the trade deadline?