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Is the new core already here?

dudacek

By dudacek
in The Aud Club

  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Within three years, how many of these players do you expect will be capable of being a legitimate contributor on a Stanley Cup contending team

    • Cody Hodgson
      24
    • Tyler Ennis
      10
    • Marcus Foligno
      19
    • Mikhail Grigorenko
      15
    • Zemgus Girgensons
      27
    • Joel Armia
      17
    • Johan Larsson
      12
    • Tyler Myers
      17
    • Mark Pysyk
      17
    • Brayden McNabb
      6
    • Jake McCabe
      12
    • Buffalo's 2014 first rounder
      8
    • The return from a Vanek trade
      6
    • The return from a Miller trade
      2
    • Jhonas Enroth/Matt Hackett
      5

  2. 2. Within three years, how many of these players do you expect to be an impact player on a Stanley Cup contending team?

    • Cody Hodgson
      19
    • Tyler Ennis
      5
    • Marcus Foligno
      8
    • Mikhail Girgorenko
      14
    • Zemgus Girgensons
      19
    • Joel Armia
      9
    • Johan Larsson
      7
    • Tyler Myers
      15
    • Mark Pysyk
      7
    • Brayden McNabb
      4
    • Jake McCabe
      6
    • Buffalo's 2014 first rounder
      4
    • The return in a Vanek trade
      4
    • The return in a Miller trade
      1
    • Jhonas Enroth/Matt Hackett
      2
    • (just for fun) Zack Kassian
      2

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
Posted

The mantra from Darcy is simple: build and nurture a new young core, even if it means some suffering.

Most in the Aud Club are OK with the concept. The debate is about how long it's going to take to be a Stanley Cup contender.

 

My question here is how many core pieces do people think are already in the organization?

 

The two polls above list 15 Sabre assets.

The first asks how many of these do you to project into a top six forward/top three defenceman/starting goalie on a Stanley Cup contending team within three years?

The second asks how many you predict should become a leader on a Stanley Cup contending team within three years?

 

I hope the results give us a good indication of what forum members really think of our pool of young talent.

nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

Posted
Posted

Conceptually this is an interesting question but I think it is really asking how confident the respondent is about the Sabres' ability to draft and develop young players -- i.e. it's more about the development system than about the individual players, because no one here has seen any of the following guys play any meaningful NHL games:

 

Grigorenko

Girgensons

Armia

Larsson

Pysyk

McCabe

Hackett

2014 1st rounder

Return for Vanek

Return for Miller

 

 

...so opining about how good, say, Armia is going to be can't really be anything more than throwing darts.

 

Having said that, I think Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno and Myers are long-term core assets.

dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Conceptually this is an interesting question but I think it is really asking how confident the respondent is about the Sabres' ability to draft and develop young players -

 

 

That's pretty much exactly what it is asking, with the added element of what they know of each prospect.

And I'd like to get those views on record.

... All Star

...

Posted
Posted

Having said that, I think Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno and Myers are long-term core assets.

 

I put my votes in already, but it didn't occur to me until now to suggest that we may want to consider adding reasons for each pick. We should agree not to argue (much) over the reasons, however.

 

The idea is from your list, nfreeman; I'm curious why you chose the kids you did (except Ennis, maybe, because he is a pick of mine as well).

 

 

dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm convinced Foligno will be our Lucic and Girgensons our Bergeron.

And when all is said and done, Myers will be a cornerstone on defence.

 

Hodgson and Ennis are top six already and should get better; neither has played 200 NHL games yet.

That said, they peak at Krecji-level; neither will be elite players.

 

Johan Larsson and Mark Pysyk will be useful NHL players in the near future.

 

I'm hopeful but skeptical on Girgorenko and Armia. Both may put up points, but I'm not sure either has the right stuff.

Doubt McNabb will be a top-four and McCabe is five years away.

 

The 2014 first won't be as high as most of you hope, and the return on Miller will be a roll of the dice.

But I will be surprised and disappointed if we don't get a future top six player for Vanek.

Neither Hackett, nor Enroth will be anything above OK.

 

And Kassian will be proof that a beast without focus will never consistently deliver on his promise.

Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

Posted
Posted

Out of that list of forwards Hodgson, Ennis, and Armia are the only ones I see that shout top 6 core to me. Grigorenko is in question right now but is obviously hoped to be among them as well. And after last seasons AHL playoffs I think Girgensens may have a shot at 2nd line status, but my expectations are he'll be a 3rd line guy.

 

I am much more confident of the D men listed being solid contributors. Too soon to say which ones are likely top 3 material.

sicknfla Third Liner

sicknfla

Posted
Posted

Maybe 3 of your top 6 come from this group. I dont recall many Cup contending teams having a top 6 of everyone being under 23 years old. They will have to find,IMO, a true #1 center. I don't think there is one in this group. Maybe half your defense comes from this group. None of our goalies are going to win us a cup.

 

We have a LONG ways to go.

 

I think we may bottom out a year too soon. I truly believe this team is in line for the #1 pick next year. I dont think we will be as bad next year - which will make us miss out on McDavid. Don't even suggest that we could always trade into #1 for him. Nobody is trading that pick.

Sabre Dance Third Liner

Sabre Dance

Posted
Posted

It's very tough right now to foresee any of these players being the "new core", not because they don't have talent but because most of them have little-to-no NHL experience. We'll have to see how they play this year (and likely next as well) before we'll be able to tell.

 

That being said, I honestly don't see Tyler Myers as a "stalwart" or "cornerstone" on defense. Even if he plays better than he did last year (and is in better shape), I just don't think he has the kind of heart or "gumption" to haul the team up on his back and carry them deep into the playoffs. The best case scenario is to have him play well this year and then trade him for a vet or two and some picks. Of course, with DR piloting the ship, they will give Myers until the end of his current contract to try to return to Calder Trophy form and then wonder what went wrong when he doesn't. The only thing worse than having a promising young player not pan out is to wait way too long to realize it and wind up with nothing to show. Past experience has shown that this is the Sabres' standard modus operandi and nothing that has transpired since the ownership change indicates otherwise to me. I hope to God I am wrong...

Stoner Hall of Famer

Stoner

Posted
Posted

None.

 

Losers do long rebuilds. Franchises trying to bamboozle the fans do long rebuilds. The chance of it working is slim to none.

 

None.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted

I'm hopeful but skeptical on Girgorenko and Armia. Both may put up points, but I'm not sure either has the right stuff.

Doubt McNabb will be a top-four and McCabe is five years away.

I am nitpicking because I agree with most of what you say... McNabb I agree with you on but the McCabe timeline is far to long. McCabe will play this year in college no doubt. Next year I expect to see him in the AHL and I think with his attitude and skill set he could even be a call up. In the 3years the kid makes the team. McCabe consistently shows his leadership and adaptability. 5yrs is 2years to long IMPO.

sicknfla Third Liner

sicknfla

Posted
Posted

None.

 

Losers do long rebuilds. Franchises trying to bamboozle the fans do long rebuilds. The chance of it working is slim to none.

 

None.

 

A little harsh but, unfortunately, I agree with you. This rebuild has a far better chance ending up as a press conference announcing a DR firing than it does with a downtown parade.

deluca67 All Star

deluca67

Posted
Posted

I'm convinced Foligno will be our Lucic and Girgensons our Bergeron.

And when all is said and done, Myers will be a cornerstone on defence.

 

Hodgson and Ennis are top six already and should get better; neither has played 200 NHL games yet.

That said, they peak at Krecji-level; neither will be elite players.

 

Johan Larsson and Mark Pysyk will be useful NHL players in the near future.

 

I'm hopeful but skeptical on Girgorenko and Armia. Both may put up points, but I'm not sure either has the right stuff.

Doubt McNabb will be a top-four and McCabe is five years away.

 

The 2014 first won't be as high as most of you hope, and the return on Miller will be a roll of the dice.

But I will be surprised and disappointed if we don't get a future top six player for Vanek.

Neither Hackett, nor Enroth will be anything above OK.

 

And Kassian will be proof that a beast without focus will never consistently deliver on his promise.

It's always funny when posters do so drunk. :beer:

Claude_Verret First Liner

Claude_Verret

Posted
Posted

None.

 

Losers do long rebuilds. Franchises trying to bamboozle the fans do long rebuilds. The chance of it working is slim to none.

 

None.

 

Not sure if you're being serious or just trying to rankle, but if the future is truly that bleak in your view, why bother anymore?

 

That's where I am with the Bills, hopeless, and I don't really spend any time following them these days.

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

Interesting that only two players are registering any support in the poll. For the record, I only see Hodgson and Girgensons as contributors/impact players as well (at the moment). This is due largely to the fact that we just haven't seen enough from a lot of the listed players to form any conclusions. Too many question marks.

 

For the record, I don't think Ennis is an impact player. He's talented sure, but he's severely undersized, and unless you can put some more talented players with him to open up space he'll continue to get ragdolled by every defenseman in the league. Foligno and Stafford are some pretty weak support. Ennis with Girgensons might be a lot of fun.

Stoner Hall of Famer

Stoner

Posted
Posted

Not sure if you're being serious or just trying to rankle, but if the future is truly that bleak in your view, why bother anymore?

 

That's where I am with the Bills, hopeless, and I don't really spend any time following them these days.

 

The future generally isn't bleak. I'll always be hopeful they're going to get it right one of these days. But with the current setup of Pegula-Regier-Accounting Firm of Benson/Sawyer, I am not hopeful right now. Add in the idea of these guys "rebuilding" and it's very bleak. Not ready to go all Bills on them, but I might be one home game in Hamilton away.

Claude_Verret First Liner

Claude_Verret

Posted
Posted

The future generally isn't bleak. I'll always be hopeful they're going to get it right one of these days. But with the current setup of Pegula-Regier-Accounting Firm of Benson/Sawyer, I am not hopeful right now. Add in the idea of these guys "rebuilding" and it's very bleak. Not ready to go all Bills on them, but I might be one home game in Hamilton away.

 

Fair enough. I still have a few dozen kicks to the nuts left in me for the Sabres before they sink to the Bills level.

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