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Place Your Bets! (Vanek, Miller trade edition)

IKnowPhysics

By IKnowPhysics
in The Aud Club

Vanek/Miller Poll  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Vanek be traded? When?

    • He won't be traded, he will be resigned by the Sabres.
      31
    • He'll be traded before the first round of the 2013 draft ends.
      15
    • He'll be traded after the first round of the 2013 draft ends but before the beginning of the 2013-14 regular season.
      10
    • He'll be traded after the beginning of the 2013-14 season but before the 2014 trade deadline.
      40
    • His rights will be traded after the 2014 trade deadline OR he won't be traded at all before he turns UFA.
      12

  2. 2. Will Miller be traded? When?

    • He won't be traded, he will be resigned by the Sabres.
      13
    • He'll be traded before the first round of the 2013 draft ends.
      40
    • He'll be traded after the first round of the 2013 draft ends but before the beginning of the 2013-14 regular season.
      20
    • He'll be traded after the beginning of the 2013-14 season but before the 2014 trade deadline.
      23
    • His rights will be traded after the 2014 trade deadline OR he won't be traded at all before he turns UFA.
      12

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JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

fwiw, kris baker defines a prospect as follows:

 

For definition, a prospect is judged to be a player who begins a post-draft season between the ages of 18-23, whose NHL rights are owned by the Buffalo, and who has played fewer than 50 NHL games.

 

and someone else (not sure who, but it was pasted into the prospect thread) defined the term as follows:

 

Prospect - A player under 25 who has not yet acquired a permanent spot at the NHL level and who's expected ceiling is at the NHL level. Once a player has played a full season at the NHL level, and is not expected to have to earn a spot in the following year, then they are no longer a prospect.

 

Interesting.

 

Markstrom would be a prospect using the first definition but not the second. I agree with the second definition more. I think if the player has earned a permanent spot, I don't consider him a prospect. I guess Markstrom could go either way in that case because more than likely he has the starting position. Of course that is barring any trades.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

Interesting.

 

Markstrom would be a prospect using the first definition but not the second. I agree with the second definition more. I think if the player has earned a permanent spot, I don't consider him a prospect. I guess Markstrom could go either way in that case because more than likely he has the starting position. Of course that is barring any trades.

 

Markstrom hasn't really earned a permanent spot though. He could easily tank next year and have Florida searching for somebody else. My point is he's proven absolutely nothing in the NHL yet. Obviously no classification scheme is going to be perfect, but at a minimum, I'd think we could agree that if you're eligible for the Calder, you're still a prospect.

JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

Markstrom hasn't really earned a permanent spot though. He could easily tank next year and have Florida searching for somebody else. My point is he's proven absolutely nothing in the NHL yet. Obviously no classification scheme is going to be perfect, but at a minimum, I'd think we could agree that if you're eligible for the Calder, you're still a prospect.

 

I agree, he could tank this year or he could be traded to a team who already has a legitimate starter and end up being the backup. But in FL he is the starter as of right now, and even if they brought in somebody like Miller, Clemmensen would be the odd man out and Markstrom would still have a backup spot. So yes, he could be considered a prospect because he wouldn't be the default starter for certain teams if he were traded. It's all a matter of how you look at it. ;)

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

Posted
Posted

The thing is, with all this trade talk going on, if Darcy doesn't get serious and at least show some commitment to moving Miller and Vanek then he'll get left in the dust. Who knows if he already has or not.

 

@BuffNewsVogl

Both Darcy Regier and agent Mike Liut tell Buffalo News they expect Ryan Miller to remain with Sabres through draft weekend. Story upcoming.

 

Well... time to break out #DoSomethingDarcy

IKnowPhysics First Liner

IKnowPhysics

Posted
  • Author
Posted

That's what I was afraid of a little. Teams might wait to see how the UFA and buyout goalies shake out.

 

Edit: Here's the article, BUT it's not really news. It's "if we don't trade them, they'll still be here, and there are no concrete trade talks....yet."

 

“Right now I expect that we will pick where we’re picking, and I say that only because there’s nothing that’s imminent or concrete,” Regier said. “But like I said, there are a lot of conversations, and they will continue right until the draft starts and even beyond that.”
darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

Sounds like Darcy isn't quite getting the offers he wants and this is his way of publicly saying " Who is going to impress me? Who wants to step up to the plate?"

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

I still say they're both gone tomorrow. I have no idea why I believe Darcy will be aggressive enough to get it done, other than he's logical if nothing else and logic dictates tomorrow is the day to make it happen.

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

I still say they're both gone tomorrow. I have no idea why I believe Darcy will be aggressive enough to get it done, other than he's logical if nothing else and logic dictates tomorrow is the day to make it happen.

 

He's been unusually vocal which has me feeling weird...

deluca67 All Star

deluca67

Posted
Posted

Sounds like Darcy isn't quite getting the offers he wants and this is his way of publicly saying " Who is going to impress me? Who wants to step up to the plate?"

The questions I have is, if Darcy Regier can find the right deal, will Terry Pegula sign off on it?

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

 

The questions I have is, if Darcy Regier can find the right deal, will Terry Pegula sign off on it?

 

Regardless of whether Terry has to sign off, Darcy seems to have his full support publicly so I would say yes.

Peppy22 Fourth Liner

Peppy22

Posted
Posted

tradedeadline next year... they will not leave the team before that I think... the return for both will not be that good I think

Ross Rhea Third Liner

Ross Rhea

Posted
Posted

I'm hoping some team comes calling for Miller today. I think Darcy want's what he got for Pom's but no-one is going to offer that. I want Vanek to be here but Miller could go.

 

Agreed, I think people here are way way overvaluing Miller. I don't think the rest of the NHL thinks he is as good as people here think he is. We shall see.

Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

Posted
Posted

Agreed, I think people here are way way overvaluing Miller. I don't think the rest of the NHL thinks he is as good as people here think he is. We shall see.

 

You havve Promo's point of view, and you have Carp's. Is Darcy a good GM because he doesn't trade Miller today because he didn't like the return, or is he a bad GM for it?

 

I'm doing what you are doing. But it's okay for you but not me? When I said "hate" I meant hate the job he's doing, not hate him personally. But I think your reasons for disliking his resume are flimsy. The man has made mistakes but overall he has done well considering the pressures that have been on him. Pressures like bankruptcy, having his scouting department replaced with a VCR, etc.

 

As for complaining he values his players too much, that is the nuttiest criticism ever. He drives a hard bargain and he's been successful doing that. And that's a problem? Seriously. Say it out loud and listen to yourself. You don't want a GM to get maximum value?

 

PTR

I gave the example previously of a company selling a product at a $20 margin, which currently sells 100 units/month. Is that a good choice if dropping the price $10 (to a $10 margin) would increase sales to 300 units/month? Is the question whether $20/unit is better than $10/unit or is the question whether $2000/month is better than $3000/month?

 

If, hypothetically, Darcy does overvalue his players, then every trade that actually goes through will look good. Darcy was a breath away from not getting anything for Gaustad, because he wouldn't take a first. It's not too hard to imagine that he had passed on reasonable deals throughout the day on the chance that some fool would actually give him his ridiculous asking price. In this case, somebody did. Great. However, how has not making many fair deals for guys like Connolly, Roy, Stafford, etc, meaning that those players stuck around for far too long, affected the team build as a whole?

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