Place Your Bets! (Vanek, Miller trade edition)

[LGR4GM]

I think it would be nice to see him find chemistry with some of our new core and thrive off of it. I bet it would be good fun for him, a nice change of pace from being the whipping boy.

I wonder if Cody and Thomas continue to click that maybe Vanek will re-sign with the Sabres because he can see a future here. Hard to say how this season plays out but if Thomas plays most of the season here, he has the ability to move into the top 5 for all time scoring as a Sabre.

[deluca67]

I wonder if Cody and Thomas continue to click that maybe Vanek will re-sign with the Sabres because he can see a future here. Hard to say how this season plays out but if Thomas plays most of the season here, he has the ability to move into the top 5 for all time scoring as a Sabre.

If you're (not you specifically) a fan of Thomas Vanek you have to hope he moves on to a situation where he can thrive and compete for a Stanley Cup. The money is going to be there which should make his legacy and a Stanley Cup the top priorities. I would love to see Vanek on a team like the Penguins or Bruins where he would most certainly take his rightful spot as a star in this league. His first eight seasons have been mired in relative obscurity, it would be great to see Vanek become relevant league wide, I just don't see it happening here.

[North Buffalo]

If you're (not you specifically) a fan of Thomas Vanek you have to hope he moves on to a situation where he can thrive and compete for a Stanley Cup. The money is going to be there which should make his legacy and a Stanley Cup the top priorities. I would love to see Vanek on a team like the Penguins or Bruins where he would most certainly take his rightful spot as a star in this league. His first eight seasons have been mired in relative obscurity, it would be great to see Vanek become relevant league wide, I just don't see it happening here.

 

 

Are you a Sabres fan? Bruins, Penguins???? Really, I agree with the sentiment, but short of Toronto, Ottawa or Philli... I am not sure you could list two more distasteful teams to send him to. Send him to a Western Conference team that he can succeed at, say the Yotes.

 

Bruins? Quins?

[deluca67]

 

 

Are you a Sabres fan? Bruins, Penguins???? Really, I agree with the sentiment, but short of Toronto, Ottawa or Philli... I am not sure you could list two more distasteful teams to send him to. Send him to a Western Conference team that he can succeed at, say the Yotes.

 

Bruins? Quins?

The idea is to maximize Vanek's value as a player and a NHL star. The last thing i would want as a hockey fan is to see Vanek buried out west. I want to see Vanek playing on the top line of the top teams battling for a Cup. I want to see if Vanek can be a 50-60 goal scorer playing with the premier talent in the NHL.

[Ross Rhea]

The idea is to maximize Vanek's value as a player and a NHL star. The last thing i would want as a hockey fan is to see Vanek buried out west. I want to see Vanek playing on the top line of the top teams battling for a Cup. I want to see if Vanek can be a 50-60 goal scorer playing with the premier talent in the NHL.

 

Being a Sabre fan first and a hockey fan second and a Vanek fan, I would love to see Vanek flourish on a team where he isn't the target of every cheapshot from every opposing player. I too think he could stay healthier and maybe be a 50-60 goals, 100 point guy. That would be fun to see and watch him smile occasionally. I kinda feel bad for him stuck here in Buffalo.

[Claude_Verret]

The idea is to maximize Vanek's value as a player and a NHL star. The last thing i would want as a hockey fan is to see Vanek buried out west. I want to see Vanek playing on the top line of the top teams battling for a Cup. I want to see if Vanek can be a 50-60 goal scorer playing with the premier talent in the NHL.

Being a Sabre fan first and a hockey fan second and a Vanek fan, I would love to see Vanek flourish on a team where he isn't the target of every cheapshot from every opposing player. I too think he could stay healthier and maybe be a 50-60 goals, 100 point guy. That would be fun to see and watch him smile occasionally. I kinda feel bad for him stuck here in Buffalo.

 

If that's how Vanek's potential was viewed around the league he'd be gone already in return for a major haul. With those numbers you're talking about Vanek leading the league in goals and being in the top 3-5 in points. I like Vanek, but I don't believe that he's that elite points guy no matter who he's playing with.

[Ross Rhea]

If that's how Vanek's potential was viewed around the league he'd be gone already in return for a major haul. With those numbers you're talking about Vanek leading the league in goals and being in the top 3-5 in points. I like Vanek, but I don't believe that he's that elite points guy no matter who he's playing with.

 

Fair enough, but Kevin Lowe thought enough of him to give up 4 first rounders. That's got to count for something. I also think he would show to be more elite playing elsewhere with a lot better supporting cast. As long is he is here in Buffalo we won't see his true potential unless Darcy gets him some true top tier players to play with. Doubt that happens anytime soon.

[waldo]

If that's how Vanek's potential was viewed around the league he'd be gone already in return for a major haul. With those numbers you're talking about Vanek leading the league in goals and being in the top 3-5 in points. I like Vanek, but I don't believe that he's that elite points guy no matter who he's playing with.

 

1.delucca's was trolling in his post IMO . he has left me with the impression, after reading his previous posts that he may believe that Vanek, Pom, and Miller were a few of the reasons for the Sabres failure and that the team needs to clean house.I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong. lol

 

2.Wait for Vanek to resign elsewhere at around 8 mil. We will see how many teams are in pursuit if he goes ufa.. Hopefully it will be a good team, not a Minn. FYI for the Sabres.. he was putting up great numbers given the teams overall skill level as was Miller..I am hoping he ends up in a Detroit or a Boston at the deadline. I just want to see him play with a one center on a team with two scoring lines. He is a legit 100pt guy in that scenario.If he ended up in a Detroit that would probably be one of the top three lines in hockey.

 

You cannot put an elite player on the ice and surround him with average players and expect him to perform at 100%. fyi I do not believe 26 is an elite player but I do believe he is capable of putting up 100pts and 60 goals on the right team which would be two the stats thresholds for one.

[deluca67]

1.delucca's was trolling in his post IMO . he has left me with the impression, after reading his posts that Vanek is one of the reasons for the Sabres failure and that the team needs to clean house.I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong. lol

 

2.Wait for Vanek to resign elsewhere at around 8 mil. We will see how many teams are in pursuit if he goes ufa.. Hopefully it will be a good team, not a Minn. FYI for the Sabres.. he was putting up great numbers given the teams overall skill level as was Miller..I am hoping he ends up in a Detroit or a Boston at the deadline. I just want to see him play with a one center on a team with two scoring lines. He is a legit 100pt guy in that scenario.If he ended up in a Detroit that would probably be one of the top three lines in hockey.

I guess I'll have to correct you since you have no understanding of my position on Vanek. Vanek's age and price makes Vanek a luxury on the Sabres and frankly Vanek signing on to stay in Buffalo would be a waste of the next 4-5 years of his career. Vanek's value to the Sabres is/was more in the possible return in a trade, though IMO the Sabres have missed the boat waiting this long.

Fair enough, but Kevin Lowe thought enough of him to give up 4 first rounders. That's got to count for something. I also think he would show to be more elite playing elsewhere with a lot better supporting cast. As long is he is here in Buffalo we won't see his true potential unless Darcy gets him some true top tier players to play with. Doubt that happens anytime soon.

I see Vanek remaining as a Sabre more of the failure of Darcy Regier than the perceived value of Vanek around the NHL.

[waldo]

 

I guess I'll have to correct you since you have no understanding of my position on Vanek. Vanek's age and price makes Vanek a luxury on the Sabres and frankly Vanek signing on to stay in Buffalo would be a waste of the next 4-5 years of his career. Vanek's value to the Sabres is/was more in the possible return in a trade, though IMO the Sabres have missed the boat waiting this long.

 

I see Vanek remaining as a Sabre more of the failure of Darcy Regier than the perceived value of Vanek around the NHL.

 

Thanks for the correction and the definitive way in which you stated your position. It was my belief that Vanek and Miller were a wasted luxury item for the past five years or so (although I admit I was as ever hopeful, as the other fans, that the GM would find the right skilled players and recruit them) If you were never going to go out and surround them with the talent to win , why have them in the first place? So I guess we agree on the point. It just took you longer to come around.

[JJFIVEOH]

The last several posts are just another example of drastically overvaluing the rest of the talent around the league, or severely undervaluing the talent on the Sabres. Not to mention the fact 4-5 years is a huge exaggeration.

[TrueBlueGED]

I think calling Vanek a 100 point player is stretching it. Maybe he could bust out for a year a la Corey Perry, but definitely not on a consistent basis. That said, with better teammates I think he could pot mid-70s on a regular basis.

[Ross Rhea]

fyi I do not believe 26 is an elite player but I do believe he is capable of putting up 100pts and 60 goals on the right team which would be two the stats thresholds for one.

 

Wouldn't a stat line like this put him in elite class? IMO 60+ goals puts him in all time history of elite class goal scorers, as not many people have done that in a given year.

[waldo]

I think calling Vanek a 100 point player is stretching it. Maybe he could bust out for a year a la Corey Perry, but definitely not on a consistent basis. That said, with better teammates I think he could pot mid-70s on a regular basis.

 

My case?

 

add the right rw in any of the following mixes (most of the following teams have the right rw)

 

Vanek Giroux

Vanek Bergeron

Vanek Daksyuk ..

Vanek Franzen

Vanek Malkin

Vanek St Louis

Vanek Crosby

Vanek Tavares

 

I could list another five or so centers.

 

+ the power play # output increases resulting from playing the middle on the pp on any of those teams.

 

how many points did he put up as a rookie playing with D and B?

 

Is he smarter, more mature and better now than then?

 

It is as much about the decisions he makes with the puck as it is about his scoring that gets him 100pts. Roy , and I hate to say it even Pom will never match the numbers they put up with him and if he goes neither will Cody.

 

And...he enhances their production too.

[deluca67]

The last several posts are just another example of drastically overvaluing the rest of the talent around the league, or severely undervaluing the talent on the Sabres. Not to mention the fact 4-5 years is a huge exaggeration.

Expecting anything less is setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. The majority of "talent" the Sabres have is in their prospects. The players likely to make up their NHL roster is lacking in talent. it's unrealistic to expect recent draft picks to flood the NHL roster and have the Sabres contending in three years or less especially when you have to take into consideration that a good portion of those prospects will not have much of an impact at all.

 

My case?

 

add the right rw in any of the following mixes (moist of the following teams have the right rw)

 

Vanek Giroux

Vanek Bergeron

Vanek Daksyuk ..

Vanek Franzen

Vanek Malkin

Vanek St Louis

Vanek Crosby

+ the power play # increase resulting from playing the middle on the pp on any of those teams.

 

etc

etc.

how many points did he put up as a rookie playing with D and B

 

 

 

And...he enhances their production too.

I agree!

 

Vanek is a 70 point player now and that's skating with the train wreck of top six forwards the Sabres have been putting on the ice in recent years. Put him with elite talent and I think fans will be shocked.

[Ross Rhea]

I think calling Vanek a 100 point player is stretching it. Maybe he could bust out for a year a la Corey Perry, but definitely not on a consistent basis. That said, with better teammates I think he could pot mid-70s on a regular basis.

 

Your statement makes no sense. 100 points is a stretch as you say but he could "pot" mid 70's regularly. So you think he can "pot" 70+ but can't get at least 30 assists? C'mon you surely don't think that do you? Unless you don't know what "pot" means? Do you?

[TrueBlueGED]

Your statement makes no sense. 100 points is a stretch as you say but he could "pot" mid 70's regularly. So you think he can "pot" 70+ but can't get at least 30 assists? C'mon you surely don't think that do you? Unless you don't know what "pot" means? Do you?

 

Good to see you living up to your user name.

 

My case?

 

add the right rw in any of the following mixes (most of the following teams have the right rw)

 

Vanek Giroux

Vanek Bergeron

Vanek Daksyuk ..

Vanek Franzen

Vanek Malkin

Vanek St Louis

Vanek Crosby

Vanek Tavares

 

I could list another five or so centers.

 

+ the power play # output increases resulting from playing the middle on the pp on any of those teams.

 

how many points did he put up as a rookie playing with D and B?

 

Is he smarter, more mature and better now than then?

 

It is as much about the decisions he makes with the puck as it is about his scoring that gets him 100pts. Roy , and I hate to say it even Pom will never match the numbers they put up with him and if he goes neither will Cody.

 

And...he enhances their production too.

 

My rebuttal: how many players get 90+ points yearly, let alone 100+? Your argument results in Vanek being one of the top 5 offensive players in the entire league. I love Vanek, but I could easily name 5 better offensive players. And if you want to bring Vanek's rookie/sophomore years into it, over 20 players had a point per game average then. Now? Less than 10. The game isn't the same.

[deluca67]

Good to see you living up to your user name.

 

 

 

My rebuttal: how many players get 90+ points yearly, let alone 100+? Your argument results in Vanek being one of the top 5 offensive players in the entire league. I love Vanek, but I could easily name 5 better offensive players. And if you want to bring Vanek's rookie/sophomore years into it, over 20 players had a point per game average then. Now? Less than 10. The game isn't the same.

You seem to be saying that if Vanek is surrounded by better players his production will stay the same.

[TrueBlueGED]

 

You seem to be saying that if Vanek is surrounded by better players his production will stay the same.

 

He tends to be in the mid-60s. With better teammates I think he could get mid-70s. How is that the same? Better yet, is there any remotely recent precedent where a player gets a better team and starts averaging a whopping 30 additional points? That's an astronomical increase in production.

[JJFIVEOH]

Expecting anything less is setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. The majority of "talent" the Sabres have is in their prospects. The players likely to make up their NHL roster is lacking in talent. it's unrealistic to expect recent draft picks to flood the NHL roster and have the Sabres contending in three years or less especially when you have to take into consideration that a good portion of those prospects will not have much of an impact at all.

 

 

I agree!

 

Vanek is a 70 point player now and that's skating with the train wreck of top six forwards the Sabres have been putting on the ice in recent years. Put him with elite talent and I think fans will be shocked.

 

I'm talking about the last few years, including right now. Bring back Pominville, and a line with him Vanek and Hodgson isn't much less offensive than most other teams top lines save for a couple of outliers. Fast forward to today, it's not out of the possibility that Vanek and Hodgson can't flourish with somebody else. Yes, many Sabres fans routinely overvalue the rest of the players in the league.

[Ross Rhea]

Good to see you living up to your user name.

 

Typical response from a jackass who thinks they are better than everyone else and thinks they are never wrong.

 

Seems to be an awful lot of that around here.

[darksabre]

 

 

Typical response from a jackass who thinks they are better than everyone else and thinks they are never wrong.

 

In TBs defense, your response sucked.

[Ross Rhea]

In TBs defense, your response sucked.

 

Looks like you don't know what the term "pots" means either.

[darksabre]

 

 

Looks like you don't know what the term "pots" means either.

 

Whatever you say.

[tom webster]

The last several posts are just another example of drastically overvaluing the rest of the talent around the league, or severely undervaluing the talent on the Sabres. Not to mention the fact 4-5 years is a huge exaggeration.

 

No secret we don't always see eye to eye but I completely agree with this post.