Around the NHL - 2013-2014

[qwksndmonster]

Maybe because Wilson took the trajectory of the bullet that killed Kennedy?

Wilson was in control the whole time, and definitely had plenty of time to see Schenn with the puck and target him. This kid's in the show, he knows how to skate. Avoiding Simmonds doesn't somehow excuse the hit.

[LastPommerFan]

Maybe because Wilson took the trajectory of the bullet that killed Kennedy?

 

exactly, he came from Dallas to make that hit.

[Taro T]

That doesn't make it not charging.

I still say it was boarding rather than charging. (Yes, I know the ref called it charging.)

 

If the hit had been open ice, I doubt it would have been considered nearly as egregious.

[Eleven]

I still say it was boarding rather than charging. (Yes, I know the ref called it charging.)

 

If the hit had been open ice, I doubt it would have been considered nearly as egregious.

 

Chris Neil.

 

Shoulder-to-shoulder; took extra steps to get there.

 

Open ice.

 

Blindsided.

 

Egregious. Anyone on this board who didn't think that was egregious at the time?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Santa Claus

[darksabre]

 

I still say it was boarding rather than charging. (Yes, I know the ref called it charging.)

 

If the hit had been open ice, I doubt it would have been considered nearly as egregious.

 

I think it's probably a little of both. The boarding doesn't happen without the blast of energy delivered by the charge. I won't even begin to debate whether things would be different in open ice. This incident wasn't.

[Hoss]

I still say it was boarding rather than charging. (Yes, I know the ref called it charging.)

 

If the hit had been open ice, I doubt it would have been considered nearly as egregious.

 

So what you're saying is that the circumstance of the hit is what causes it to be so egregious and a penalty? Because that's how penalties work.

[LastPommerFan]

I still say it was boarding rather than charging. (Yes, I know the ref called it charging.)

 

If the hit had been open ice, I doubt it would have been considered nearly as egregious.

 

boarding is a penalty based on impact with the boards. Charging is based on speed due to distance traveled. This was probably both, but charging includes contact with the boards.

[darksabre]

Can I just note how silly it is that some here are labeling the uproar over dangerous hits as "wussification" as if the NHL isn't the fastest and most dangerous it has ever been?

 

Seriously. The NHL, right now, is the MOST DANGEROUS IT HAS EVER BEEN. Everyone take a moment to let this sink in.

[SwampD]

Can I just note how silly it is that some here are labeling the uproar over dangerous hits as "wussification" as if the NHL isn't the fastest and most dangerous it has ever been?

 

Seriously. The NHL, right now, is the MOST DANGEROUS IT HAS EVER BEEN. Everyone take a moment to let this sink in.

And yet I think we're on pace to have the most suspensions in a season. Hmm,… somethin' ain't workin'.

 

I will tell you whats wrong with that hit. Schenn is a victim of playing in a era where they put near full blame on the hitter. He had no reason to have situtational awareness nor the need to bother to expect a hit. Had this play happened 10 years or more ago Schenn would have been raked over the coals for putting himself in a vulnerable spot.

I really think this is an important point.

[darksabre]

 

And yet I think we're on pace to have the most suspensions in a season. Hmm,… somethin' ain't workin'.

 

 

I really think this is an important point.

 

The suspensions are a product of players having zero respect for one another's well being. It's like we forget that these guys have families to go home to at night just like the rest of us. Who cares about blaming the hitter or the hittee. Everyone in this game is at fault for the reckless nature of it right now. Especially those who think the game shouldn't change even though the pieces have evolved drastically in the last twenty years.

 

Hockey is the fastest, the most physical and the most entertaining it has ever been. But the players are also the most careless and most armor plated. And it's getting the best players in the game hurt with more frequency than ever before.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Can I just note how silly it is that some here are labeling the uproar over dangerous hits as "wussification" as if the NHL isn't the fastest and most dangerous it has ever been?

 

Seriously. The NHL, right now, is the MOST DANGEROUS IT HAS EVER BEEN. Everyone take a moment to let this sink in.

 

Bringing the words NHL and DANGER together is like bringing the words RUFF and ELITE together.....

 

I'm Soooooo going to the VFW this week.......

[darksabre]

 

 

Bringing the words NHL and DANGER together is like bringing the words RUFF and ELITE together.....

 

I'm Soooooo going to the VFW this week.......

 

Say hi to Milbury and Cherry for me.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

Say hi to Milbury and Cherry for me.

 

Maybe you would like to poll Mark Howe's rectum before you make an outlandish statement.....

[darksabre]

 

 

Maybe you would like to poll Mark Howe's rectum before you make an outlandish statement.....

 

You've already been there I see. How are the Caverns?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

You've already been there I see. How are the Caverns?

 

Bloody....and dangerous....

 

Google if you must

[That Aud Smell]

It absolutely is about money and these guys know exactly what they are getting themselves into.

 

And then folllows the 'informed consent' argument.

 

I've met about a dozen current and former NHLers. Based on that sample size and what I can glean elsewhere, I'm not buying this argument either. Not for a minute.

[Wyldnwoody44]

 

 

Get rid of the instigator rule and hard "pads," and I'm getting a lot closer to being on board with this. Look at some games from the 70s and 80s, and the pads they had. Not armor.

Hell go even further back when goaltenders didn't even wear masks, now that's absurd.... Scoring is down league wide, especially in buffalo lol.... Now every day there's a new Shanahan video with some mix of consonants and vowels explains why the leagues emergency fund needs to stockpile more money.... Have each team bring an enforcer in and let them loose..... Marchand and Kesse and the llikes wouldn't be agitating as much... We could have the chippewa street bullies

[carpandean]

I will tell you whats wrong with that hit. Schenn is a victim of playing in a era where they put near full blame on the hitter. He had no reason to have situtational awareness nor the need to bother to expect a hit. Had this play happened 10 years or more ago Schenn would have been raked over the coals for putting himself in a vulnerable spot.

 

Don't worry, a few more hits like this, a few more guys with long-term concussion issues, a few more guys carted off on stretchers, etc., and they'll remember those dark days of peer pressure. :thumbsup:

 

As long as the NHL is soft on suspensions, players not respecting the position that they are putting themselves in will continue to get destroyed. Personally, that seems to me like a little more incentive than a teammate giving you crap for turning your back to the play. Really, the league is just letting the players police themselves.

 

With this play, it is simple. He charged, which is illegal. He boarded, which is illegal. The hit was particularly devastating (high energy hit 3 feet from the boards), so you suspend him. The league wants hard hits into the boards and hard open-ice hits (as long as neither has principle contact to the head), but the one thing that they don't want is hard hits in that dangerous zone 2-3 feet away from the boards that launches guys head-first into those boards.

 

Perhaps, Schenn was foolish on the play, but I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about how he tricked Wilson into taking a penalty that helped his team.

[That Aud Smell]

Perhaps, Schenn was foolish on the play, but I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about how he tricked Wilson into taking a penalty that helped his team.

 

My guess: He's mostly glad he can still walk, and feed and dress himself. And so on.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Don't worry, a few more hits like this, a few more guys with long-term concussion issues, a few more guys carted off on stretchers, etc., and they'll remember those dark days of peer pressure. :thumbsup:

 

As long as the NHL is soft on suspensions, players not respecting the position that they are putting themselves in will continue to get destroyed. Personally, that seems to me like a little more incentive than a teammate giving you crap for turning your back to the play. Really, the league is just letting the players police themselves.

 

With this play, it is simple. He charged, which is illegal. He boarded, which is illegal. The hit was particularly devastating (high energy hit 3 feet from the boards), so you suspend him. The league wants hard hits into the boards and hard open-ice hits (as long as neither has principle contact to the head), but the one thing that they don't want is hard hits in that dangerous zone 2-3 feet away from the boards that launches guys head-first into those boards.

 

Perhaps, Schenn was foolish on the play, but I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about how he tricked Wilson into taking a penalty that helped his team.

 

qft

[SwampD]

[snip]

 

Really, the league is just letting the players police themselves.

 

[snip]

Doesn't the instigator rule tell us the exact opposite? To me it says to the players "We, the NHL, will punish these plays how we see fit, and if you try to police yourselves, we will punish you."

 

The problem is that it has created a scenario where some players don't fear the league and others don't feel they have to protect themselves.

[SwampD]

The suspensions are a product of players having zero respect for one another's well being. It's like we forget that these guys have families to go home to at night just like the rest of us. Who cares about blaming the hitter or the hittee. Everyone in this game is at fault for the reckless nature of it right now. Especially those who think the game shouldn't change even though the pieces have evolved drastically in the last twenty years.

 

Hockey is the fastest, the most physical and the most entertaining it has ever been. But the players are also the most careless and most armor plated. And it's getting the best players in the game hurt with more frequency than ever before.

These attitudes aren't any different today than they ever have been.

And then folllows the 'informed consent' argument.

 

I've met about a dozen current and former NHLers. Based on that sample size and what I can glean elsewhere, I'm not buying this argument either. Not for a minute.

I'm confused by what this means. None of them knew they could get injured by getting the honor of playing in the NHL?

[apuszczalowski]

Hell go even further back when goaltenders didn't even wear masks, now that's absurd.... Scoring is down league wide, especially in buffalo lol.... Now every day there's a new Shanahan video with some mix of consonants and vowels explains why the leagues emergency fund needs to stockpile more money.... Have each team bring an enforcer in and let them loose..... Marchand and Kesse and the llikes wouldn't be agitating as much... We could have the chippewa street bullies

That was also at a time before composite sticks with curved blades, where the puck barely left the ice surface from a shot. Once the pucks started getting into the air from shots, thats when masks came into play

[That Aud Smell]

I'm confused by what this means. None of them knew they could get injured by getting the honor of playing in the NHL?

 

It means I don't believe that the overwhelming majority of hockey players -- including and perhaps especially NHL players -- have ever given informed consent to playing a game that had legal and essentially legal elements that created a substantial risk of the players' having their cognitive functioning materially impaired later in life. "Informed consent" contemplates a knowing and therefore freely willing acceptance of known and disclosed risks.

 

Up until recent times, hockey players were overwhelmingly a simple and non-analytical bunch (in a less charitable sense, they were largely beer-drinking cement heads). Coaches, GMs, owners, etc. talked about bells rung and eggs scrambled. Do you think those eras involved informed consent on the part of the players? I don't. (I will grant you: There were early parts of those eras when the risks simply weren't known or knowable; but there were decades where the risks were known or at least knowable, and the campaign of studied ignorance continued.)

 

More recently, hockey players, at least the North American ones, have started to change in terms of their demographics. And it's not just outliers like Ryan Miller. Hockey in N.A. -- elite hockey -- has increasingly become a sport of those with means and large support networks. As a result, the kids who have become and are becoming the next NHL caliber players tend to be better educated, often coming from homes with white collar/professionals as parents (call it the Tyler Syndrome). Add to that the disclosures that are being made and the changes to the game that are being implemented (e.g., USA Hockey banning fighting at all levels), and you have a cohort that is arguably being given a chance to give informed consent to known risks. But I'm not even sure we're there just yet.

Edited December 19, 2013 by That Aud Smell

[SwampD]

It means I don't believe that the overwhelming majority of hockey players -- including and perhaps especially NHL players -- have ever given informed consent to playing a game that had legal and essentially legal elements that created a substantial risk of the players' having their cognitive functioning materially impaired later in life. "Informed consent" contemplates a knowing and therefore freely willing acceptance of known and disclosed risks.

 

Up until recent times, hockey players were overwhelmingly a simple and non-analytical bunch (in a less charitable sense, they were largely beer-drinking cement heads). Coaches, GMs, owners, etc. talked about bells rung and eggs scrambled. Do you think those eras involved informed consent on the part of the players? I don't. (I will grant you: There were early parts of those eras when the risks simply weren't known or knowable; but there were decades where the risks were known or at least knowable, and the campaign of studied ignorance continued.)

 

More recently, hockey players, at least the North American ones, have started to change in terms of their demographics. And it's not just outliers like Ryan Miller. Hockey in N.A. -- elite hockey -- has increasingly become a sport of those with means and large support networks. As a result, the kids who have become and are becoming the next NHL caliber players tend to be better educated, often coming from homes with white collar/professionals as parents (call it the Tyler Syndrome). Add to that the disclosures that are being made and the changes to the game that are being implemented (e.g., USA Hockey banning fighting at all levels), and you have a cohort that is arguably being given a chance to give informed consent to known risks. But I'm not even sure we're there just yet.

My point is how many would, for a chance to play in the NHL?

 

And if a players don't already know that getting knocked out by a legal body check can scramble your brains, then hockey players are dumber than I thought.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that hockey already falls into that category of "known risk" sports, like skiing, skateboarding, etc…