dudacek Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) See the other thread for some thoughts on this. I guess I have the same conversation going on in two places. Didn't really mean it that way. But I will say here that maybe I expect them to have a better handle on the projected ceiling of these players - are you suggesting the projections aren't that accurate? I guess then what's the deal with the McDavid hype if his projection could be that wrong? Also: "I certainly doubt Murray's plan is to just sit on these kids and wait." This is exactly what I am saying. There seems to be a dissonance here...on the one hand folks seem to be looking forward to the 2015 draft, but on the other hand folks seem to agree GMTM is going to have to make moves relatively soon. I don't know if these plans work together, I really don't. It seems either he goes into this draft and then starts to build up the team...2015 be damned...or they tank yet another season. I just do not see tanking for 2015 working out. That's not fatalism or some freaky prediction, it just doesn't line up. I don't think the league is going to let the Sabres tank another season and get away with it. I don't think Pegula is on board for another season of this. I don't think Nolan is on board with it. And I would be a little surprised if GMTM is on board (although the thought has occurred to me that maybe the PLF departure had to do exactly with tanking as internal policy). Obviously, the players will not be on board. So...again, I don't see everything lining up quite as clean cut and story book as it reads on the board. We're Sabres fans. We don't expect it to line up perfectly. As for being bad next year, I don't think it will be deliberate. I just think that given our stunning lack of veteran talent, even if we manage to sign a couple good free agents, it will be inevitable. I just hope it will be a little more entertaining to watch. As for projections, they are just that: Will Grigorenko be Jason Spezza or Marek Zagrapan? Is Compher Mike Peca or Kevin Porter? Does Armia equal Jeff Carter or (to quote the guy upthread) Norm Milley? We just don't know. And we pray that Murray does. Edited March 20, 2014 by dudacek
LGR4GM Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 This could also go in the draft thread but since several Sabres prospects are on there we shall put it here. I give you the OHL coaches polls for best players in several different categories. http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/article/2013-14-ohl-coaches-poll-winners/160823 Zadorov, Kea, Baptiste all made the list in various spots.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) @SabresProspects OHL Coaches Poll: Nick Baptiste - Eastern Conference #2 Best Skater, #1 Best Shootout Shooter. #Sabres OHL Coaches Poll: Nikita Zadorov - Western Conference #3 Best Offensive Defenseman, #2 Best Defensive Defenseman. #Sabres OHL Coaches Poll: Justin Kea - Western Conference #3 Best Defensive Forward. #Sabres Full list of OHL Coaches Poll winners: Ekblad, Bennett, Perlini, Fabbri et. al. among draft eligibles earning praise http://ontariohockeyleague.com/article/2013-14-ohl-coaches-poll-winners/160823 … Edited March 20, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
shrader Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 This could also go in the draft thread but since several Sabres prospects are on there we shall put it here. I give you the OHL coaches polls for best players in several different categories. http://www.ontarioho...-winners/160823 Zadorov, Kea, Baptiste all made the list in various spots. Kea is an interesting one who seems to have fallen off the radar around these parts in the past year. If he can continue to progress in that defensive center role, I'll be very interested in seeing how he plays in Rochester next year. Oh, and second hardest shot in the western conference, Max Iafrate. Why does that not surprise me?
26CornerBlitz Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 @SabresProspects #Sabres playoff action today: Michigan (J.T. Compher) vs Penn State - B1G QF (3:00 ET). Sudbury (Nick Baptiste) at Barrie game 1 (7:30)
nhl2012 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 1) To the poster who compared Jamie Benn to Compher. No, Benn is a top 10 player in the National League and is 6'2 and 215 pounds. Compher is 5'11 and 185 pounds. Compher will be good PKer and 15 G, 40 A man (2nd PP unit). He is like a faster John Madden and will be very good. Benn is almost as good as Rick Nash -- with a great stride, size, and heavy shot and hockey smarts. 2) Possler is a ? b/c of his knee injury. Should he have surgery? 3) Kea is a fine prospect. The leader of the Saginaw team. His offense has gone up each year (1994 DOB). He will fight anyone. Good on draws. He has the potential to end up like a Guastad or Brian Boyle type. The other Saginaw guy to watch is Locke. He is smaller but has a wicked snap-shot -- poor man's J. Pominville. Is there room on the roster for a Pat Verbeek, Ray Ferraro type?
Trettioåtta Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 Girl. Sex is only a label. Tell that to your body! Those damn bigoted cells
MattPie Posted March 20, 2014 Report Posted March 20, 2014 Girl. Sex is only a label. I usually take the label off before sex, it just chafes.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 @SabresProspects Possler re-ups. No shock. #Sabres RT @aalexnil @SabresProspects Possler signs a new deal for two year with Modo. http://modohockey.se/artikel/50293/
nfreeman Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 I keep seeing posters referencing Griggy and Armia as future 1st liners. Let's be clear: there is a high likelihood -- I'd say at least 50/50 -- that BOTH of them are washouts.
Hoss Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 I keep seeing posters referencing Griggy and Armia as future 1st liners. Let's be clear: there is a high likelihood -- I'd say at least 50/50 -- that BOTH of them are washouts. I disagree with this. I don't think either of them end up as first liners, but I do think they have a high likelihood of being NHLers. Nothing we've seen so far can justify claiming that they are likely to be busts. Really we have no evidence either way, but claiming that they are leaning either way is wrong.
Johnny DangerFace Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Posted March 21, 2014 I disagree with this. I don't think either of them end up as first liners, but I do think they have a high likelihood of being NHLers. Nothing we've seen so far can justify claiming that they are likely to be busts. Really we have no evidence either way, but claiming that they are leaning either way is wrong. I think both have the best shot to be 1st liners compared to anyone else in our system. I think there is a good chance they end up as top 6 forwards. I would say 50/50. Either top six forwards or depth scorers
Robviously Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 Armia is looking more and more like a long shot to me. How many guys struggle in their first season in the AHL and later turn out to be good NHL players? Grigorenko is different. He struggled in the NHL as an 18 and 19 year old, but so would almost anyone. If all we had to go on were his QMJHL numbers and his great performance in the WJC this year, we'd all be pretty excited about him. Give him a full season in the AHL next year and see what he can do. The Sabres did a terrible job with him by treating him like a marketing gimmick instead of a prospect to develop; I'm hoping they can still right that ship. As for all the initial hype we all bought into about him being our future no.1 center, let's just pretend that never happened.
Johnny DangerFace Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Armia is looking more and more like a long shot to me. How many guys struggle in their first season in the AHL and later turn out to be good NHL players? Grigorenko is different. He struggled in the NHL as an 18 and 19 year old, but so would almost anyone. If all we had to go on were his QMJHL numbers and his great performance in the WJC this year, we'd all be pretty excited about him. Give him a full season in the AHL next year and see what he can do. The Sabres did a terrible job with him by treating him like a marketing gimmick instead of a prospect to develop; I'm hoping they can still right that ship. As for all the initial hype we all bought into about him being our future no.1 center, let's just pretend that never happened. It's armia's first professional NA season and he's had injuries so I'm not putting too much value on this season. Next year Armia has to make the jump and have a good ahl year. While I'll give grigs an excuse next year :) Edited March 21, 2014 by Numark
Hoss Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 Armia is looking more and more like a long shot to me. How many guys struggle in their first season in the AHL and later turn out to be good NHL players? People are loving Girgs and he did nothing to produce at the AHL level. Armia isn't producing, but, like Girgs, people on the team have said he's clearly a very talented player. Obviously the difference is that Armia is expected to be an offensive player moreso than Girgs, but I'll give some benefit of the doubt to Armia due to the ice adjustment.
IKnowPhysics Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 but I'll give some benefit of the doubt to Armia due to the ice adjustment. Don't forget the injuries. I think both of those are challenging him, but are quite possibly only minor setbacks in his development.
Robviously Posted March 21, 2014 Report Posted March 21, 2014 People are loving Girgs and he did nothing to produce at the AHL level. Armia isn't producing, but, like Girgs, people on the team have said he's clearly a very talented player. Obviously the difference is that Armia is expected to be an offensive player moreso than Girgs, but I'll give some benefit of the doubt to Armia due to the ice adjustment. Nope. The difference is that Girgensons started in the AHL as an 18 year old and was clearly their best player by the end of last season. (And that's with suffering a pretty awful concussion from a cheap shot in the middle of last season.) Armia started in the AHL this year as a 20 year old after logging two extra years developing in the top Finnish league. And I don't think he's been talked about as their best player ever.
dudacek Posted March 22, 2014 Report Posted March 22, 2014 I've got more worries about Armia than Grigorenko. Grigorenko is about where you would expect a 12th overall pick to be — dominating junior in this last season, showing well against his peers in the WJC. I expected Armia to show more offence in his first year pro than he has. Culture shock, the small ice and the hand are three legitimate obstacles. But if he is not scoring for the Amerks at a rate by Christmas that is forcing the Sabres to be looking at a call-up, we have a problem.
Norcal Posted March 22, 2014 Report Posted March 22, 2014 Armia looked pretty good in the preseason before he took a slash to the hand and broke his wrist or hand I forget which. After some adjustment time to regain strength since returning from that injury he has started to look better again, making several nice plays and scoring a few pretty goals. I think judgement should be reserved on him until he can put together a longer string of games.
Rasmus_ Posted March 22, 2014 Report Posted March 22, 2014 I've been to a number of Amerks games this season and at times Armia flashes the showings of quality vision on the ice, working out of the corners and the ability to weave in and out of traffic. Other times he looks lost. It will be more than a one year transition for him. Luckily for him, he's on a team with a little bit of time before they definitely "need him".
TrueBlueGED Posted March 22, 2014 Report Posted March 22, 2014 Armia is looking more and more like a long shot to me. How many guys struggle in their first season in the AHL and later turn out to be good NHL players? If this is a big reason why you're concerned, why don't you tell us? Because I don't have the faintest idea one way or the other. I also have some concerns with Armia, but it has more to do with seemingly not developing much in Finland than with struggles in the AHL given the circumstances. I think we may be falling for the trap of expecting too much too soon. Armia may be our top winger prospect and have a ton of talent, but he's just another mid first rounder who had a lot of question marks about his game.
sabre snipe Posted March 23, 2014 Report Posted March 23, 2014 @SabresProspects: Nikita Zadorov gets 2+2 in London's 6-3 win over Windsor. Zadorov's first-ever 4-point game, had 6 pts in 20 playoff games last year
26CornerBlitz Posted March 23, 2014 Report Posted March 23, 2014 @SabresProspects Mikhail Grigorenko has three assists (2 on PP) as Quebec leads Rouyn-Noranda 5-2 at the 2nd intermission. @SabresProspects Jake McCabe quickly gets the puck off his stick from just inside the point for a PPG. Wisconsin trails Ohio State 2-1 at the end of one.
Robviously Posted March 23, 2014 Report Posted March 23, 2014 If this is a big reason why you're concerned, why don't you tell us? Because I don't have the faintest idea one way or the other. Not the faintest idea? What does common sense tell you? Elite players skip the AHL entirely. Notable Sabres players developed through the AHL that played really well in their first years include Vanek, Roy, Stafford, Ennis, Gerbe, Adam, Kassian, McNabb, Foligno, MacArthur, Butler, and Adam. So playing well in the AHL in your first year there doesn't guarantee anything in the NHL but a lot of our draftees that made it to the NHL did well in the AHL very quickly. The one example I could find of a guy taking a while is Pominville, who only had 34 points in 73 games in his first AHL season. He definitely became a good NHL player. In any event, I think being concerned about a rough first AHL season is reasonable. As far as his Finland numbers over the last three years, it was tough to feel strongly about those since I never got to see him play in those games and, more importantly, I've never seen a single SM-liiga game in my life. I honestly wouldn't know what to ask for from a guy developing in Finland's top league.
nfreeman Posted March 23, 2014 Report Posted March 23, 2014 Not the faintest idea? What does common sense tell you? Exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at less-than-stellar numbers in both Finland and the AHL and concluding that there is a real risk that Armia washes out -- just as there would be nothing wrong in concluding that there would've been a good likelihood of him developing into a high-caliber NHL forward if his numbers in those leagues had been stellar. As for Griggy, anyone with eyes can detect the utter lack of effectiveness he's displayed at the NHL level. I'm still hopeful on both guys, of course. But not optimistic.
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