Darcy webstream June 20

[TrueBlueGED]

I've had beers with Schopp and White, separately, through two different common points of connection I share with them. Neither of them are dummies, and, IMO, neither of them truly believe half or more of the stuff they say on the air. What they do is, in some respects, an act. If you're not cognizant of that, then you're getting trolled.

 

This amuses me given how much White likes to rip on Skip Bayless for doing this exact thing.

 

You two are talking past each other. His point isn't that Buffalo has had more character guys. His point is there is more of them in the league and the price tag for them isn't as high as skilled players.

 

Unfortuantely the Sabres haven't valued the addition of those players as highly as they should have.

 

Precisely.

[LTS]

I've had beers with Schopp and White, separately, through two different common points of connection I share with them. Neither of them are dummies, and, IMO, neither of them truly believe half or more of the stuff they say on the air. What they do is, in some respects, an act. If you're not cognizant of that, then you're getting trolled.

 

That doesn't mean that I can bear listening to either of them. I can't. But those two guys specifically -- Schopp and White -- have the same sort of job/role in their programs -- to be the guy that agitates the listeners (one of the easiest ways to do that: belittle and talk over callers).

 

I will also note: Bulldog's just a mensch. You may not like listening to him, but he's just a good dude -- salt of the earth.

 

That's nice. So I'm supposed to have respect for people willingly acting like morons just to irritate people? For me it seems like a complete waste of energy to get up each day and decide how you can best try and incite fans against their team and irritate the people who, presumably, are calling in because they are listeners to your show in an attempt to get them to not like you so they don't listen anymore.

 

Sounds intelligent; perpetuating the idiocracy rather than providing a stimulating and intelligent conversation.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how acting like an idiot precludes you from actually being an idiot. It seems like it would be even worse to have the capacity to NOT be an idiot and then choose to be one.

 

Clearly I'm in the minority as they continue to have jobs.

[That Aud Smell]

So I'm supposed to have respect for people willingly acting like morons just to irritate people?

 

I did not suggest that you should respect them (White and Schopp).

 

I'm still trying to figure out how acting like an idiot precludes you from actually being an idiot. It seems like it would be even worse to have the capacity to NOT be an idiot and then choose to be one.

 

It's a form of show biz, man. It's a shtick. My Dad used to travel a lot for sales and on a few occasions was in the same hotel as the major pro wrestling outfit that then dominated the northeast (not sure what it was -- the predecessor to the WWF, maybe). Anyway, my Dad loved to tell stories about how George "The Animal" Steele was an articulate and funny guy.

 

 

Clearly I'm in the minority as they continue to have jobs.

 

I think that's right.

[X. Benedict]

I did not suggest that you should respect them (White and Schopp).

 

[/size]

 

It's a form of show biz, man. It's a shtick. My Dad used to travel a lot for sales and on a few occasions was in the same hotel as the major pro wrestling outfit that then dominated the northeast (not sure what it was -- the predecessor to the WWF, maybe). Anyway, my Dad loved to tell stories about how George "The Animal" Steele was an articulate and funny guy.

 

 

 

 

I think that's right.

 

He was always eating the turnbuckles. :lol:

[Weave]

That's nice. So I'm supposed to have respect for people willingly acting like morons just to irritate people? For me it seems like a complete waste of energy to get up each day and decide how you can best try and incite fans against their team and irritate the people who, presumably, are calling in because they are listeners to your show in an attempt to get them to not like you so they don't listen anymore.

 

Sounds intelligent; perpetuating the idiocracy rather than providing a stimulating and intelligent conversation.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how acting like an idiot precludes you from actually being an idiot. It seems like it would be even worse to have the capacity to NOT be an idiot and then choose to be one.

 

Clearly I'm in the minority as they continue to have jobs.

 

Dude, you should just avoid TV, radio, and movies altogether.

 

And politics. Can't forget politics.

[JJFIVEOH]

The "bottoming out" and the 3 to 5 year rebuild may be exactly what is necessary (and certainly appears to be forthcoming). But, why do the Sabres feel it necessary to be so honest about it? Most other majoer league sports teams would at least try to put a positive spin on a crappy situation. The Sabres seem to delight in saying (and doing) things that even further pi$$ off their fan base.Hey, if you've explored the possibility of trading to move up in the draft and it hasn't happened (and isn't likely to), why do you have to hold a press conference to announce it to the world? If asked about it, just say that the draft is still nine days off and negotiations are continuing (even if they are not). Glass half full, Darcy...

 

Who says they're being honest about it? And why all of a sudden do people take Darcy's word? When Darcy and Pegula made the fans optimistic and things didn't turn out as planned, the BFLO and fans completely admonished the entire organization without mercy. With that said, does anybody really think Darcy is going to tell fans anything but the worst case scenario? By giving the impression it's going to be 3-5 years, anything better than that will seem like an accomplishment; as opposed to telling people that we might have a chance at the playoffs next year. Because guess what happens if he says there's a chance we could make the playoffs next year.

 

Anybody who actually looks at the situation critically will realize it's not going to take 3-5 years, and they'll also realize that a rebuild has been in place for the last year and a half already whether it was officially labeled a rebuild or not.

 

If I got treated the way Darcy and Terry have been the last few months, I sure as hell wouldn't announce that success in the short term was the goal. I'd have done the same thing, tell everybody it's going to be a while that way when it happens sooner than later everybody will be happy.

[LGR4GM]

Who says they're being honest about it? And why all of a sudden do people take Darcy's word? When Darcy and Pegula made the fans optimistic and things didn't turn out as planned, the BFLO and fans completely admonished the entire organization without mercy. With that said, does anybody really think Darcy is going to tell fans anything but the worst case scenario? By giving the impression it's going to be 3-5 years, anything better than that will seem like an accomplishment; as opposed to telling people that we might have a chance at the playoffs next year. Because guess what happens if he says there's a chance we could make the playoffs next year.

 

Anybody who actually looks at the situation critically will realize it's not going to take 3-5 years, and they'll also realize that a rebuild has been in place for the last year and a half already whether it was officially labeled a rebuild or not.

 

If I got treated the way Darcy and Terry have been the last few months, I sure as hell wouldn't announce that success in the short term was the goal. I'd have done the same thing, tell everybody it's going to be a while that way when it happens sooner than later everybody will be happy.

What isn't? Are we talking getting us perennial playoff team or cup contender?

[JJFIVEOH]

I would hope a Cup contender. It's not going to take 3-5 years to turn this into a perennial playoff team. Once it gets to that point, then Darcy can tweak it to try and make this team a Cup contender. Either way, we're not going to be looking at 3-5 years of sitting outside the top 8. And we've all seen what can happen once playoffs start.

 

Considering Rolston finished off the season 15-9-5 with absolutely nothing to work with, I might go out on a limb and say this team makes the playoffs next year.

[LGR4GM]

I would hope a Cup contender. It's not going to take 3-5 years to turn this into a perennial playoff team. Once it gets to that point, then Darcy can tweak it to try and make this team a Cup contender. Either way, we're not going to be looking at 3-5 years of sitting outside the top 8. And we've all seen what can happen once playoffs start.

 

Considering Rolston finished off the season 15-9-5 with absolutely nothing to work with, I might go out on a limb and say this team makes the playoffs next year.

We may make the playoffs but we won't go far. I think we can get back to a playoff team sooner but cup contender is probably 2015-2016 at earliest. I am not sure what the full meaning of the bolded part is but if you are implying a 7/8 seed can win the cup then I would say that is a statistical outlier.

[JJFIVEOH]

We may make the playoffs but we won't go far. I think we can get back to a playoff team sooner but cup contender is probably 2015-2016 at earliest. I am not sure what the full meaning of the bolded part is but if you are implying a 7/8 seed can win the cup then I would say that is a statistical outlier.

 

Not saying they'd be a favorite to win the Cup as a 7/8, but with the parity in the league now it's a much higher probability than any other sport. Of course they're not going to be a Cup contender next year, but the sky isn't falling and the Sabres aren't going to be the Islanders of 2008-2012.

[HopefulFuture]

 

 

I'm not sure what White's saying -- that you should sell the farm to get a presumed (but not guaranteed) franchise player? I dunno. I think the team is trying track toward the Boston model -- scoring/hitting balance across the roster, hard-working guys who play for each other. That, and this year's draft is apparently a really good one. I will agree with White when it's warranted (begrudgingly), but not on this.

 

Also, please keep in mind: There's no way to differentiate between what White may actually believe and what he's espousing in a calculated effort to keep people listening, clicking, and calling.

 

His messages looked to infer such a tone as to appear to turn his nose up at the comments on giving up to much for that franchise player. Yea, it was an assumption to some extent, but given white's past comments it can't be far from the mark.

Interesting you bring up the Boston model, they are going that route, but hey, Boston has a 2nd overall pick on their roster and let's be completely honest here, there is no way they can build the Boston model since Buffalo is not in the same category for a UFA's destination as Boston. The plain fact of the matter is Boston built the team first through it's draft and trades building a winning reputation then seized the opportunity to complete the roster with UFA's that had impact.

 

In short Buffalo won't be building that model until they put their draft and trade pieces together, all the more reason to stop dickering around with this and get your franchise player(s) to build around. Right now, as many have pointed out, the Sabres are overflowing with support players.

[JJFIVEOH]

His messages looked to infer such a tone as to appear to turn his nose up at the comments on giving up to much for that franchise player. Yea, it was an assumption to some extent, but given white's past comments it can't be far from the mark.

Interesting you bring up the Boston model, they are going that route, but hey, Boston has a 2nd overall pick on their roster and let's be completely honest here, there is no way they can build the Boston model since Buffalo is not in the same category for a UFA's destination as Boston. The plain fact of the matter is Boston built the team first through it's draft and trades building a winning reputation then seized the opportunity to complete the roster with UFA's that had impact.

 

In short Buffalo won't be building that model until they put their draft and trade pieces together, all the more reason to stop dickering around with this and get your franchise player(s) to build around. Right now, as many have pointed out, the Sabres are overflowing with support players.

 

If it means anything, Boston only has 4 players on the roster that they actually drafted that I consider impact players. Only one of them was taken in the first round. And I wouldn't necessarily say they've built around him yet.

[HopefulFuture]

If it means anything, Boston only has 4 players on the roster that they actually drafted that I consider impact players. Only one of them was taken in the first round. And I wouldn't necessarily say they've built around him yet.

 

Well sure it means something. It means you chose to ignore the trades they did to bring in key personnel on the roster, and yes, they haven't built around Seguin yet, they don't have to, he already fits on a roster filled with talented players. UFA's to Boston will not be the same for the Sabres.

[JJFIVEOH]

Well sure it means something. It means you chose to ignore the trades they did to bring in key personnel on the roster, and yes, they haven't built around Seguin yet, they don't have to, he already fits on a roster filled with talented players. UFA's to Boston will not be the same for the Sabres.

 

I didn't ignore the trades, I was commenting on your comparison of building around draft picks. Teams don't intentionally build around 2nd round picks, they simply got lucky. Their history of 1st round picks has been less than stellar.

[HopefulFuture]

I didn't ignore the trades, I was commenting on your comparison of building around draft picks. Teams don't intentionally build around 2nd round picks, they simply got lucky. Their history of 1st round picks has been less than stellar.

 

Well there in lay the difference of thoughts. I am of the mind to sell the house to get into 2 of the top 4 positions. I wouldn't deal Armia if Barkov can be had.

Keeping Mac and Drouin together is a pipe dream, but I'd sell the house to get that done.

The underlying point I was making was the level of talent at the top end in this particular draft class and Buffalo's ability to get to it. They have the pieces to pay the price and in my opinion, wouldn't set them back any on a 3 to 5 year contention plan.

[JJFIVEOH]

Well there in lay the difference of thoughts. I am of the mind to sell the house to get into 2 of the top 4 positions. I wouldn't deal Armia if Barkov can be had.

Keeping Mac and Drouin together is a pipe dream, but I'd sell the house to get that done.

The underlying point I was making was the level of talent at the top end in this particular draft class and Buffalo's ability to get to it. They have the pieces to pay the price and in my opinion, wouldn't set them back any on a 3 to 5 year contention plan.

 

I can respect your opinion in that regards. I'm just not a big fan of putting all your eggs in one basket. It's a big risk. Take the bonafide superstars of the league, the type you would think a team would build around, most of those teams have been less than Cup contenders.

[IKnowPhysics]

Him being out of shape in January was unacceptable. But, I think Lindy put way too much pressure on him and tried to turn him into a player that he's not. One thing I have noticed about Rolston is he lets these guys play their role and do what they do best, instead of forcing them to do something else. You're right, some time under Rolston should help him improve greatly.

 

Not to nitpick, because I'm not in the discussion of your points, but it should be noted that Foligno was playing center at the end of the year. Although he played center in juniors, I'm not sure that's parallel with your perception of Rolston.

[HopefulFuture]

I can respect your opinion in that regards. I'm just not a big fan of putting all your eggs in one basket. It's a big risk. Take the bonafide superstars of the league, the type you would think a team would build around, most of those teams have been less than Cup contenders.

 

Completely agree, it is a risk. But I can't help but think back to all the years of mediocrity with this club. If we have the opportunity to build a winner, I'd like to see them roll the dice that way as opposed to the depth, or support player way we've seen in these most recent years.

[JJFIVEOH]

Not to nitpick, because I'm not in the discussion of your points, but it should be noted that Foligno was playing center at the end of the year. Although he played center in juniors, I'm not sure that's parallel with your perception of Rolston.

 

Who knows. Maybe it was a suggestion from Foligno. Maybe Rolston was experimenting trying to get him out of his slump. All I know is it seemed like the last couple of years Lindy tried to improve on the players' weaknesses and everybody played tentatively, trying not to screw up. It seemed to me Rolston was trying to build off of their strengths and let them play their own game. Maybe it's just me but they all seemed to be more comfortable on the ice with Rolston.

 

Completely agree, it is a risk. But I can't help but think back to all the years of mediocrity with this club. If we have the opportunity to build a winner, I'd like to see them roll the dice that way as opposed to the depth, or support player way we've seen in these most recent years.

Fair enough. ;)

[deluca67]

Bucky Gleason's column was an interesting read. Many of his comments/ideas seemed to have been ripped from the pages of this board.

[That Aud Smell]

Bucky Gleason's column was an interesting read. Many of his comments/ideas seemed to have been ripped from the pages of this board.

 

I couldn't get through it. I skimmed it and saw his suggestion that picks 8 and 16 could be packaged to get into the top 3.

 

:wallbash:

 

I get better and more timely analysis from this community than I do from Gleason or anyone else in the local MSM.

[TrueBlueGED]

I couldn't get through it. I skimmed it and saw his suggestion that picks 8 and 16 could be packaged to get into the top 3.

 

:wallbash:

 

I get better and more timely analysis from this community than I do from Gleason or anyone else in the local MSM.

 

He's obviously setting it up so that when that doesn't happen, he can rip Darcy for it. So transparent.

[deluca67]

I couldn't get through it. I skimmed it and saw his suggestion that picks 8 and 16 could be packaged to get into the top 3.

 

:wallbash:

 

I get better and more timely analysis from this community than I do from Gleason or anyone else in the local MSM.

That's very interesting, I don't recall a suggestion like that at all in the article.

 

He's obviously setting it up so that when that doesn't happen, he can rip Darcy for it. So transparent.

Did you read the article?

[That Aud Smell]

That's very interesting, I don't recall a suggestion like that at all in the article.

 

The eighth and 16th picks could be used in a package to move into the top three positions of the draft [snip]

 

http://www.buffalone.../130629605/1104

 

He's obviously setting it up so that when that doesn't happen, he can rip Darcy for it. So transparent.

 

My take? He's been writing that piece for a while. He wrote that paragraph weeks ago, in a vacuum, without a fraction of the information we had here on the board about what the relative values of draft picks might be.

 

After the above quote, he went on to give his "alternative" plan for the draft:

 

"or they could be used with Vanek and/or Miller for a good, young prospect with experience. I would not be inclined to keep both picks and take my chances in the draft. It’s too risky."

 

In terms of two top-20 picks being "risky", he wrote that without dealing with the commonly received wisdom (I'm not saying it's true -- just saying it's what's being discussed as true, or likely true) that the 2013 draft is the deepest/best in 10 years (since the 2003 draft). Shoot, that troglodyte Harrington published a piece today that alluded to the comparison between the 2 drafts (and included a quote from Devine).

 

And then there's this beauty:

 

Panthers GM Dale Tallon is listening to offers for the second pick overall. It’s time to give him a call and find out the price tag. I would be willing to trade Miller, Vanek and a first-round pick for the second pick overall. Why? Because the chances of keeping one or both is minimal. It would require them signing extensions with Florida, of course.

 

That was evidently written before the disclosure from Regier (which I will take at face value) that the teams in the top 4 are all looking for a bundle of picks and top prospects in order to move (i.e., they don't want veterans). Gleason's idea about moving Miller, Vanek, and #8 for the #2 pick would have gotten him eye rolls and chuckles on this board.

 

Bottom line: Bucky had no feckin' clue what the market might be for the top 3 (4) picks when he wrote this thing. He might have had some idea, had he done his homework. It's just a complete and total turd of an article.

[LGR4GM]

Lol you called him a turd, and I found it amusing.