CONFIRMED BREAKING new Third Jerseys!

[Hoss]

New England.

 

Lakers.

 

Penguins (think 1990s).

 

Remember, just because you've gotten used to the look doesn't mean it's a good look.

 

The Sabres' recent successes came with hideous sweaters. The clothing really doesn't matter.

 

Was about to mention New England. I've seen some praise their uniforms and absolutely tear our old ones to shreds... But I always thought they were both about equally bad.

 

Hate to break it to ya, but those people have a point.

 

How so? Unless the Sabres fused the marketing department with the front office people who make REAL hockey decisions... then I'm confused.

[TrueBlueGED]

That's a nice little tweak to the letters. Nice and simple.

 

edit: I'm not so crazy about the font on the A though. I hope the names on the back don't use that.

 

See, I actually like the way the A looks. C looks off to me though.

[Robviously]

Except that it's the same student, so the correlation has meaning. The guys coming up with the uniforms are not the guys primarily responsible for hockey operations, so that correlation is useless. But hey, keep making nonsensical points if you want.

Except that it is the same leadership. The guys coming up with the uniforms get final approval from the same people that the hockey operations people do. The Banana Slugs and Black Sunday happening together was not a coincidence.

 

I love this notion that the leadership of an organization has no influence on the performance of its groups. Have you ever worked for a big company? All the parts have to work together, which means you need good leaders AND that every part needs to be adding value.

 

And while the people in Marketing don't make Hockey decisions, and people in Hockey don't make Marketing decisions, the team's leadership hires the people who work in both. How do you like your GM?

 

Keeping saying nonsensical, even though we can't find an example of a team that is dysfunctional with its uniforms but amazing in the standings each year.

[Eleven]

 

we can't find an example of a team that is dysfunctional with its uniforms but amazing in the standings each year.

 

I gave you three.

 

And I also explained why it doesn't matter.

[Stoner]

See, I actually like the way the A looks. C looks off to me though.

 

The crescent wrench, you mean?

[MattPie]

I love this notion that the leadership of an organization has no influence on the performance of its groups. Have you ever worked for a big company? All the parts have to work together, which means you need good leaders AND that every part needs to be adding value.

 

I'm not sure what big company you work for, but that sounds like *none* of the ones I've encountered. :) Almost every week I get a new "Organization Announcement" and once a year we're "Reorged", yet my desk and job hasn't changed significantly since the Sabres were playing in the Conference Finals. In a previous 3-year-stint (coinciding with the post-Hasek dark years), I worked at the same desk and job but for 4 divisions (one of them twice) and 6 managers.

 

Keeping saying nonsensical, even though we can't find an example of a team that is dysfunctional with its uniforms but amazing in the standings each year.

 

I just don't see it, to be honest. The Blackhawks have never significantly changed their uniforms, yet were awful for at least a decade before their current success. And I don't think I need to detail the Leafs' recent record and uniform stability. Or the Islanders, other than their ill-fated flirtation with Mr. Gorton.

 

Would I prefer the Sabres go with a classic look (like the one they have now) and stick with it? Sure, but I think that part is righted now. Sure, folks that only want the original jerseys* and nothing else are disappointed, but I think everyone else is fine with the darker blue and silver piping. Third jerseys are just an amusement for people that like change, and that's fine.

 

* We should dig up that tread that had a bunch of pictures of 70s jerseys and how they changed subtly over time.

[shrader]

I just don't see it, to be honest. The Blackhawks have never significantly changed their uniforms, yet were awful for at least a decade before their current success. And I don't think I need to detail the Leafs' recent record and uniform stability. Or the Islanders, other than their ill-fated flirtation with Mr. Gorton.

 

And then there was the Dead Things era in Detroit.

[LGR4GM]

Is the 3rd jersey a money grab? Yea but at the same time I kinda like seeing something new every 4years (3years?) just because it is fun. i don't always buy them but it is nice to have a different look but still have your reliable home/away jerseys sitting around in case the 3rd jersey looks like barf.

 

That being said I think they got rid of the coke bottle jersey to soon. That one was really nice.

[Sabre Dance]

Well, the whole idea for a "third jersey" was kind of a money grab from the beginning. You already have a road jersey and a home jersey; why add another one to the mix? In fact, because the third jersey is usually "dark" and it is worn mostly on home ice, the league had to reverse its pattern of the home team wearing white. So, when a team with a really interesting, colorful "dark" jersey swings into town, we only get to see their "whites". Exciting, no? (I still have to do mental calisthenics when I turn on an NHL game; my first reaction is that the team in white is at home, then I remember.... Give me a break, I'm old.)

How about a team like the Vancouver Canucks who have had several changes in team colors, many jersey/logo designs and third jerseys. (I guess the Sabres kind of fall into that category as well). Compare that to...the Montreal Canadiens whose uniforms have not been altered much from the Original Six days. Tradition. Identity. Maybe the Habs haven't had the best teams over the past few seasons, but boy do they get support from their fans. (Yeah, I know that the Habs did have a third jersey and a few one-offs over the past few years. I guess they need some extra bucks, too.)

So, third jerseys? Fun? I guess. Necessary? Probably not. My take? Spend the money on a better team and a better environment at the FNC instead of another sweater.

[Claude_Verret]

Yeah I guess if your definition of money grab is anything you don't plan to lose money on or give away for free. then it's a money grab. But to suggest Pegula himself is the impetus behind such things is pure folly. The guy is a multi-billionaire, any money made in this "grab" is a grain of sand on a beach. There are much more lucrative ways for a guy in his position to make money for no other purpose than greed, which is what I view as a money grab.

 

Yes, the third jerseys are a way for teams to increase revenue, but they wouldn't be a vehicle for that if there wasn't a demand from the fans.

[shrader]

So, third jerseys? Fun? I guess. Necessary? Probably not. My take? Spend the money on a better team and a better environment at the FNC instead of another sweater.

 

Well this one is awfully short sighted, don't you think? You want them to spend money on things that will make the team and environment better. At the same time, you acknowledged that the 3rd jersey is a money grab. So if they make more money on the 3rd jersey, that means they now have more money that they can use toward the other things.

 

And I know someone will say something along the lines of "well Pegula has enough money already", but my point was a general one about the league as a whole. If they are to spend money to improve the team, any other positive earnings can only help in that department.

[carpandean]

So, third jerseys? Fun? I guess. Necessary? Probably not. My take? Spend the money on a better team and a better environment at the FNC instead of another sweater.

 

Personally, even if I truly did not care about money as an owner, I would release a third jersey every four years or so. It lets you keep the primaries constant, while changing things up a little, too. There are definitely fans who enjoy them and I would want to give them what they want.

 

As for spending "money on a better team or a better environment ... instead of another sweater," you're assuming that it is an either/or situation. They have and continue to spend money on the environment and they have tried to spend money on a better team (Richards, Parise, Suter, etc., and even taking on $3M of Kotalik to get Regehr), and I seriously doubt that the small development costs of a third jersey (which gets paid back anyway) will change that. What may change the latter part is that it hasn't worked, so that they have to try another approach than buying UFA's.

[Eleven]

Personally, even if I truly did not care about money as an owner, I would release a third jersey every four years or so. It lets you keep the primaries constant, while changing things up a little, too. There are definitely fans who enjoy them and I would want to give them what they want.

 

As for spending "money on a better team or a better environment ... instead of another sweater," you're assuming that it is an either/or situation. They have and continue to spend money on the environment and they have tried to spend money on a better team (Richards, Parise, Suter, etc., and even taking on $3M of Kotalik to get Regehr), and I seriously doubt that the small development costs of a third jersey (which gets paid back anyway) will change that. What may change the latter part is that it hasn't worked, so that they have to try another approach than buying UFA's.

 

We're talking about a community that went crazy over plastic Sabres coins from Wilson Farms a few years ago. Third sweaters are definitely part of what some fans want.

[Stoner]

Yeah I guess if your definition of money grab is anything you don't plan to lose money on or give away for free. then it's a money grab. But to suggest Pegula himself is the impetus behind such things is pure folly. The guy is a multi-billionaire, any money made in this "grab" is a grain of sand on a beach. There are much more lucrative ways for a guy in his position to make money for no other purpose than greed, which is what I view as a money grab.

 

Yes, the third jerseys are a way for teams to increase revenue, but they wouldn't be a vehicle for that if there wasn't a demand from the fans.

 

You're referring to me, right, with the Pegula comment? "Allowing" something and being the "impetus" for something are two very different things. Terry talks about a flat management structure and the organization boasts about how involved and engaged he is. I have to assume Terry signed off on the third jersey. I don't think it was his idea.

 

The owner I dreamed about would have said, "No, not again, not yet. We've tinkered with the uniforms too much and I'm not going to stick my hands in the fans' pockets again." But Terry allowed it to go forward.

 

A lot of people haven't awakened to what is happening here. The organization is back on small-market footing, trying to tend the bottom line for some mysterious future owner Ted talks about. Terry's kids, I'm almost certain. Some people still think Terry is going to continue to spend like a drunken sailor to try and buy that Cup. I think that ship sailed — I've got more terrible cliches, just wait!

 

Terry himself said he knew he might have to spend some money "in the short term" to get things working the way he wanted. Part of that might have been an ill-fated decision to add high-priced talent the first offseason. Buying the Amerks, investing in the arena, the Webster block, scouting staff, that's more of it. From here on out, IMHO, it's going to be OSP part 2. If only that meant Terry got a pro tennis girlfriend and stayed in Florida.

[TrueBlueGED]

Except that it is the same leadership. The guys coming up with the uniforms get final approval from the same people that the hockey operations people do. The Banana Slugs and Black Sunday happening together was not a coincidence.

 

I love this notion that the leadership of an organization has no influence on the performance of its groups. Have you ever worked for a big company? All the parts have to work together, which means you need good leaders AND that every part needs to be adding value.

 

And while the people in Marketing don't make Hockey decisions, and people in Hockey don't make Marketing decisions, the team's leadership hires the people who work in both. How do you like your GM?

 

Keeping saying nonsensical, even though we can't find an example of a team that is dysfunctional with its uniforms but amazing in the standings each year.

 

If the slugs and Black Sunday were related, then so were the slugs and the President's Trophy. Next thing you're going to relate are the goatheads betraying team history being related to a no goal conspiracy.

 

Regarding management, your point still falls flat. It's entirely possible that some executives are strong at certain aspects of the company and weak at others. Look at tech giants who promote lead engineers...the products might be great but the marketing could easily suck. Is there a meaningful relationship there? No. But by your logic, this scenario is nigh impossible. Bill Belichick isn't exactly a great media guy, but that doesn't reflect on his coaching ability. And on and on we go. Poor results in one segment does not necessitate failure in a completely different segment.

 

Did I mention jersey quality is extremely subjective? And how many teams are amazing in the standings every year, regardless of jerseys? Hint: not many.

[Claude_Verret]

You're referring to me, right, with the Pegula comment? "Allowing" something and being the "impetus" for something are two very different things. Terry talks about a flat management structure and the organization boasts about how involved and engaged he is. I have to assume Terry signed off on the third jersey. I don't think it was his idea.

 

The owner I dreamed about would have said, "No, not again, not yet. We've tinkered with the uniforms too much and I'm not going to stick my hands in the fans' pockets again." But Terry allowed it to go forward.

 

In my view the fans by and large like the concept of the third jerseys and a new design is something a lot of fans are interested in seeing and buying. Also, I suspect a lot of fans are like me and look forward to seeing what they have to offer and have absolutely no intention of buying one. I really find it hard to grasp the concept of Pegula allowing something to happen that most fans seem to want and enjoy being portrayed in a negative light.

[MattPie]

The owner I dreamed about would have said, "No, not again, not yet. We've tinkered with the uniforms too much and I'm not going to stick my hands in the fans' pockets again." But Terry allowed it to go forward.

 

No, not again. I will not allow this team to offer merchandise that some fans want to buy. I'm not going to let them stick their hands in their own pockets and spend money.

[darksabre]

In my view the fans by and large like the concept of the third jerseys and a new design is something a lot of fans are interested in seeing and buying. Also, I suspect a lot of fans are like me and look forward to seeing what they have to offer and have absolutely no intention of buying one. I really find it hard to grasp the concept of Pegula allowing something to happen that most fans seem to want and enjoy being portrayed in a negative light.

 

Right on. If people didn't want it, the Sabres wouldn't do it. This isn't some great moral debate. It's business.

[IKnowPhysics]

The owner I dreamed about would have said, "No, not again, not yet. We've tinkered with the uniforms too much and I'm not going to stick my hands in the fans' pockets again." But Terry allowed it to go forward....From here on out, IMHO, it's going to be OSP part 2.

 

The mental gymnastics you do to justify and expand your weird little narrative are actually somewhat impressive. Almost on the pro level, like Creationist Museum pro level.

 

Fans buy jerseys. Sabres designed a new jersey.

 

This isn't some great moral debate. It's business.

[Stoner]

Right on. If people didn't want it, the Sabres wouldn't do it. This isn't some great moral debate. It's business.

 

When is enough tinkering enough? You OK with a new third jersey next offseason? People will buy it for sure.

 

I'm with Rob. Losing franchises act like this. There has to be some correlation/causation/whatever.

 

The mental gymnastics you do to justify and expand your weird little narrative are actually somewhat impressive. Almost on the pro level, like Creationist Museum pro level.

 

Fans buy jerseys. Sabres designed a new jersey.

 

 

Ever seen an out of shape gymnast?

[Patty16]

When is enough tinkering enough? You OK with a new third jersey next offseason? People will buy it for sure.

 

I'm with Rob. Losing franchises act like this. There has to be some correlation/causation/whatever.

 

 

 

Ever seen an out of shape gymnast?

 

Loser franchises like the Bruins, Kings, Pens, Ducks, ya know all those Stanley Cup winners.

 

The mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty in your posts really is at the pro level.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

It's called Bread and Circuses.....

 

PA is correct.

 

The town is in a tizzy because some dude is bringing the Cup back to his crib for the 2nd time in 4 years, while for the past 4 months, the lead headline on Sabres.com has been "Click here to see a construction crane in action!"

 

Eleven is couth enough to be polite in pointing out the masses gobble up plastic coins. I just call it the Sabres shoveling gruel to the Rubes. The only dishonesty here is those usually putting on a positive spin to every joke of "progress" this franchise makes to protect their buddies in their offices or training rooms, or wherever.

 

To me, this is nothing but having a $1500 display of Christmas Lights put up on a $7000 trailer on cinderblocks.

[Sabre Dance]

I really don't much care if the Sabres bring out a new third jersey every month - it just wrankles me that they have no problem coming up with a new jersey that some fans will just HAVE to buy, yet their on-ice product is still lousy. It's kind of like the NFTA announcing a fare hike and the cancellation of five bus routes in one press release.

 

Third jerseys don't impress me. Give me a hard-skating, high-effort team and I'll be much more satisfied.

[darksabre]

 

 

When is enough tinkering enough? You OK with a new third jersey next offseason? People will buy it for sure.

 

I'm with Rob. Losing franchises act like this. There has to be some correlation/causation/whatever.

 

 

 

Ever seen an out of shape gymnast?

 

College teams are notorious for changing jerseys every few years. So are teams in pretty much every sport. You're just being a grump.

[Stoner]

Loser franchises like the Bruins, Kings, Pens, Ducks, ya know all those Stanley Cup winners.

 

The mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty in your posts really is at the pro level.

 

Can't you write your own material?

 

I really don't much care if the Sabres bring out a new third jersey every month - it just wrankles me that they have no problem coming up with a new jersey that some fans will just HAVE to buy, yet their on-ice product is still lousy. It's kind of like the NFTA announcing a fare hike and the cancellation of five bus routes in one press release.

 

Third jerseys don't impress me. Give me a hard-skating, high-effort team and I'll be much more satisfied.

 

That's about it in a nut shell. The organization's mindset is that the jersey MUST be changed, but the general manager CANNOT be.

 

Why is Darcy still here? Follow the money.