Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Seriously, why is the outward appearance of the coaching staff even subject to criticism? Personal interaction in my review.......
IKnowPhysics Posted May 9, 2013 Author Report Posted May 9, 2013 It's really not that complicated, man. You're right, it's the easiest game. Name a replacement or why the current guys should stay. I'm not looking for debate, I'm looking for ideas. Genuine, original thought, beyond the aforementioned "incumbent candidate sucks" or "a million unnamable persons would be better." What do you think makes a good assistant coach? Who fills that role? -- Is it a demotion for AHL Head Coaches to become NHL Assistant Coaches? I thought maybe it was, as it seems Assistant Coaches seem to get hired away for those jobs. But there's been a few that have gone from AHL HC to NHL AC, like Todd Reirden with Pittsburgh. Maybe Reirden's replacement with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, John Hynes would be a good pick. Like Rolston, he's a former USNTDP head coach with a great record and took those teams to several medals. Or maybe Rolston needs former players with NHL experience that can teach guys how to play the pro game. I'd love to land Nicklas Lidstrom, currently in native Sweden as a Red Wings scout, but all reports indicate he's perfectly happy and probably wouldn't defect away from his only NHL franchise. Some other obvious candidates, like Rod Brind'Amour, Scott Neidermayer, and Bill Guerin have already taken Assistant jobs. Mats Sundin doesn't seem like he's doing anything after being inducted into the HHOF last year. Edit: I wonder if Chris Drury would make a good assistant coach. He's got the heart. He's a winner that hates to lose.
drnkirishone Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 You're right, it's the easiest game. Name a replacement or why the current guys should stay. I'm not looking for debate, I'm looking for ideas. Genuine, original thought, beyond the aforementioned "incumbent candidate sucks" or "a million unnamable persons would be better." What do you think makes a good assistant coach? Who fills that role? your new to the internet ain't cha? :P
IKnowPhysics Posted May 9, 2013 Author Report Posted May 9, 2013 your new to the internet ain't cha? :P No, I'm not, and that's the problem. I'm tired of reading the same old ######. :)
North Buffalo Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 A couple people have said Adams is good. Any reasons why? Decent local kid with a decent NHL career, Cup included. I agree about Teppo. I'm sure he sees the game really well, undoubetedly a product of his long defensive playing career, which is why he was up in the box for games on the headset. Don't know what his other strong points are. Not sure what Patricks strong points are beyond his long career. I get the impression he's a clear communicator and a student of defensive tactics (but maybe not systems). I've never read a bad word about Jim Corsi, I've even read some of his work. I know that goalie coaching is more of a psychologist position than others on the coaching staff. I don't know if you change goalie coaches if you want to maintain a good relationship with your goalies. Corsi has had a good and long reputation having the ability to correct headcases and goaltender bad habits, otherwise why would Miller still be playing. Adams seems to have some fire in his coaching still without being rude. My problem with Patrick is he seems like he is company many trying to communicate what the coach wants without really having an opinion of his own and giving feedback to what is actually happening on the ice. More of a formula guy. As an anology, my special needs child once had an accessor telling us all the statistics of where my child was at on some scale of development. When asked practically what that meant, how does that express itself and what does that mean as far as strategy to stimulating his development, she could not tell me... literally was clueless unless it was written on her sheet. Obviously, she had some kind of learning disabiity and to an extent, I think Patrick has a similar problem. He is kind of like rainman, he can spit out statistics, what the coach wants as a formula, but he cannot analyze and give advise to adjust that formula to effectively put it in practice with what his happening on the ice. Just what I have seen of how the Sabres have performed especially on zone break outs. I do think since Adams has gotten there, they made some on the fly adjustments and started getting more flexible. I don't think the D is the problem from a talent standpoint and once Sulzer gets back, I really like the depth with how Psyk showed up and Ruwedele is developing and having McNabb still in the wings. The problem in my mind is how the forwards especially the lack of talent at center play in their own end. You either need a winger to take over the defensive zone role or get a number 1 and 2 center. The Sabres in my mind are not that far off except for the fact that it is really hard to find high level talented centers that can play both ends of the ice. But that as we all know is beating a dead horse and lays at the feet of the GM or lack there of in the Sabres case.
dudacek Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm asking this sincerely: where do you guys get your insight into the assistant coaches? I rarely read them quoted, or hear them speak; I just see them standing behind the bench.
chileanseabass Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I remember earlier this season, and last, there was a lot of talk about why Ruff chose Pominville as captain, and one of the points Paul Hamilton brought up was that Ruff didn't like to be "challenged" (like Drury). I think the same can be said about his choices as assistant coaches. Look around the NHL and most of the "elite" head coaches have at least one assistant with NHL head coaching experience. In Ruff's tenure this was never true (Lever, Ramsey, McCutcheon, Arniel, Patrick, Adams, Teppo), especially during the last few years, when guys were getting their first coaching gigs of any kind not in the minors or juniors, but as NHL assistants (Teppo, Adams, Patrick). Here's a list of current NHL head coaches that have assistants with NHL head coaching experience: Bylsma - Tony Granato (COL) Babcock - Tom Rennery (NYR/EDM) Quenneville - Mike Kitchen (STL) Tippett - John Anderson (ATL) Muller - Joh MacLean (NJ) Therrien - Gerard Gallant (CLB) Dineen - Craig Ramsay (ATL) D.Sutter - John Stevens (PHI), Davis Payne (STL) Tortorella - Mike Sullivan (BOS) Vigneault - Rick Bowness (5 teams) Hitchcock - Brad Shaw (NYI) McLellan - Larry Robinson (NJ) That doesn't even take into account NHL assistants with years and years of head coaching experience in the minors or juniors. I think it will be very interesting to see who Rolston chooses as his assistants Does he go with comfort and tab Cassidy or let his recently retired brother cut his teeth at the NHL level? Does he keep some of Lindy's guys? Will he go with someone with legitimate NHL coaching experience, but who could be seen as a "threat" to supplant him should the Sabres falter? I don't care that Rolston never played in the NHL. That's a moot point. What I'd like to see are folks on the coaching staff that have "been around the block" at different levels of the game, and preferably, at least one assistant that has some NHL coaching experience (former head coach or longtime assistant). If the organization loves Patrick and Adams so much, then put them in charge of Rochester, and let them develop along with the players. I'm on board with Rolston as head coach, but would like to see him with some seasoned assistants.
Trettioåtta Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm asking this sincerely: where do you guys get your insight into the assistant coaches? I rarely read them quoted, or hear them speak; I just see them standing behind the bench. They are in fact just holograms. Neither Adams nor Patrick are real - that is why they are never interviewed. Teppo is too expensive to hologram so they just pretend he sits in a box coaching through a head set, but in fact that room is empty bar a card board cut out of the Finn. As for Rolston, he does talk...but he sounds just like Darcy. Why is this? Because it is Darcy. When Ruff was fired Darcy saw his chance to be in full control of the team. I ask you this. Have you ever heard Darcy and Rolston talk at the same time? No. Because it can't be done To summarise: Teppo - Cardboard cutout Adams/patrick - Mute Hologram Rolston - Hologram that Darcy uses to speak Darcy - Evil mastermind Why do you think Darcy has pretended to be so incompetent all this time? It is nothing more than an illusion. A trick to get the Sabres guard down. Well it worked. All hail Lord Regier In other news - Drury was smart too. Might make a good fit for the Rolston cerebral style coaching. But there might also be a bad relationship between the organisation and him
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I remember earlier this season, and last, there was a lot of talk about why Ruff chose Pominville as captain, and one of the points Paul Hamilton brought up was that Ruff didn't like to be "challenged" (like Drury). I think the same can be said about his choices as assistant coaches. Look around the NHL and most of the "elite" head coaches have at least one assistant with NHL head coaching experience. In Ruff's tenure this was never true (Lever, Ramsey, McCutcheon, Arniel, Patrick, Adams, Teppo), especially during the last few years, when guys were getting their first coaching gigs of any kind not in the minors or juniors, but as NHL assistants (Teppo, Adams, Patrick). Here's a list of current NHL head coaches that have assistants with NHL head coaching experience: Bylsma - Tony Granato (COL) Babcock - Tom Rennery (NYR/EDM) Quenneville - Mike Kitchen (STL) Tippett - John Anderson (ATL) Muller - Joh MacLean (NJ) Therrien - Gerard Gallant (CLB) Dineen - Craig Ramsay (ATL) D.Sutter - John Stevens (PHI), Davis Payne (STL) Tortorella - Mike Sullivan (BOS) Vigneault - Rick Bowness (5 teams) Hitchcock - Brad Shaw (NYI) McLellan - Larry Robinson (NJ) That doesn't even take into account NHL assistants with years and years of head coaching experience in the minors or juniors. I think it will be very interesting to see who Rolston chooses as his assistants Does he go with comfort and tab Cassidy or let his recently retired brother cut his teeth at the NHL level? Does he keep some of Lindy's guys? Will he go with someone with legitimate NHL coaching experience, but who could be seen as a "threat" to supplant him should the Sabres falter? I don't care that Rolston never played in the NHL. That's a moot point. What I'd like to see are folks on the coaching staff that have "been around the block" at different levels of the game, and preferably, at least one assistant that has some NHL coaching experience (former head coach or longtime assistant). If the organization loves Patrick and Adams so much, then put them in charge of Rochester, and let them develop along with the players. I'm on board with Rolston as head coach, but would like to see him with some seasoned assistants. Interesting point.....and look at how many of those teams are in the playoffs versus the percentage of those that don't have that experience but are out.......75% of teams with top assistants are in......of the teams that didn't make it only 17% of teams have a former head coach. I think we looked at this 2 years ago and it was similar......
Kristian Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'd like to see new strength and conditioning coaches. This team consistently looks a step behind and the only time we see guys with jump it's because they're call ups. We could also use an assistant with an eye for the power play which has suffered tremendously for years. A-FREAKIN'-MEN!!
chileanseabass Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Interesting point.....and look at how many of those teams are in the playoffs versus the percentage of those that don't have that experience but are out.......75% of teams with top assistants are in......of the teams that didn't make it only 17% of teams have a former head coach. I think we looked at this 2 years ago and it was similar...... And those that didn't make the playoffs are two of the "up and coming" NHL head coaches (Muller, Dineen), guys who were highly respected in the minors and are in the first year+ as an NHL head coach. Year in, year out, Babcock is considered a top 3 or top 5 NHL head coach. A spot opens up on his staff this year and who does he get? Tom Renney, a guy with extensive head coaching and front office player personnel experience. He didn't add Kris Draper or some other recently retired former Wing, he got someone with first hand knowledge and experience. I'm sure they butt heads all the time, but that's also an incredible resource to have with you behind the bench. That's what Rolston needs. Not Chad Cassidy, Brian Rolston, or James Patrick. Go get someone who has been there and knows the job. Even a guy like Randy Cunneyworth (IIRC currently unemployed) who has limited NHL head coaching experience, but a good track record elsewhere.
TrueBlueGED Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next.
MattPie Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next. Maybe he was or was not using enough advanced stats.
IKnowPhysics Posted May 9, 2013 Author Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next. I did, which is why I'm being careful when I think about the reasoning behind what might be a good fit. Previous results summarized: No correlation to points percentage: Assistant coach tenure with current team Assistant coach total NHL coaching experience Assistant coach total NHL head coaching experience Assistant coach total AHL coaching experience Assistant coach total junior/college coaching experience No correlation to NHL head coaches tenure: Assistant coach experience (any level) As of July '12: Average tenure of a current NHL head coach: 2.83 years Average tenure of an assistant coach: 1.57 years Teams with assistant coaches with more than three years of NHL head coaching experience: 2 (Renney, Robinson)
Grumpy Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next. I don't doubt that is true with an experienced roster with sprinkling of veteran winners.. But if we go with a youth movement as is expected, teachers may be important.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next. Then how do you explain off 75% of teams with a head coach as assistant making the playoffs and 17% without one making it? Again...the numbers were similar last time as well. That seems like simple enough to me. What voodoo numbers are we using to deflect this from the inept Sabres this time?
MattPie Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Then how do you explain off 75% of teams with a head coach as assistant making the playoffs and 17% without one making it? What's the spread of teams in the league? Perhaps 75% of teams in the NHL have a former head coach as an assistant?
IKnowPhysics Posted May 9, 2013 Author Report Posted May 9, 2013 I don't doubt that is true with an experienced roster with sprinkling of veteran winners.. But if we go with a youth movement as is expected, teachers may be important. It's possible that the reason that there's no correlation is that different teams/head coaches look for different skill sets to fill needs. So, one approach is to determine what we need. We need a stronger powerplay, we need our puck moving defensemen to improve defensively, we apparently need better conditioning, and we need the youngins to build strong character and the will to do what is necessary to win. I'd like to introduce the law firm of Arniel, Lidstrom, Roberts, and Drury. GIve 'em all head coach salary and make a super team of coaching.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 What's the spread of teams in the league? Perhaps 75% of teams in the NHL have a former head coach as an assistant? Sorry....7/18 teams without one made it....38%.....I'm dopesmoking today!
MattPie Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry....7/18 teams without one made it....38%.....I'm dopesmoking today! Pass it on!
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Pass it on! Meet me in the optimism thread.....
Stoner Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Edit: I wonder if Chris Drury would make a good assistant coach. He's got the heart. He's a winner that hates to lose. Former Sabre. No coaching experience. Perfect! You know, at some point the burden of proof shifts to the Sabres. How is it that a franchise that can't consistently make the playoffs knows better than franchises that do, franchises that change GMs and coaches occasionally, don't "video-scout", have former NHL head coaches as assistants, make trades before the deadline and so on. I'm pretty confident that around this time last year Physics did a real analysis of assistant coach experience and team winning...and there was absolutely zero relationship. Next. Link? I remember a debate about whether the Sabres had the least assistant coaching experience in the league, and whether to count Corsi etc. I think we agreed to wait until the staffs were set in September to take another look. And then the lockout. I would confidently say the Sabres were in the bottom five, if not bottom three.
chileanseabass Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry....7/18 teams without one made it....38%.....I'm dopesmoking today! 40% (12 of 30) NHL teams have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience 50% (9 of 18) teams in the playoffs have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience (CHI, DET, VAN, SJ, STL, LA, PIT, MTL, NYR)
MattPie Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 40% (12 of 30) NHL teams have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience 50% (9 of 18) teams in the playoffs have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience (CHI, DET, VAN, SJ, STL, LA, PIT, MTL, NYR) How are 18 teams in the playoffs? I noticed someone else said that upthread too.
darksabre Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 40% (12 of 30) NHL teams have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience 50% (9 of 18) teams in the playoffs have an assistant coach on staff with NHL head coaching experience (CHI, DET, VAN, SJ, STL, LA, PIT, MTL, NYR) So it's a coin toss?
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