The "trial" of Terry Pegula

[Thwomp!]

These shenanigans are rampant across all sports.  Great website that has all the dirt indexed by sport and team:  http://www.fieldofschemes.com/

 

There is no Sabres section, but (at the risk of giving pA and GoDD more prosecutorial ammunition, there is a Bills section they would like  :ph34r:).  http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nfl/buffalo-bills/

 

I guess submitting evidence to the prosecution for whatever they are prosecuting IS on topic for this thread.  :P

[That Aud Smell]

With apologies to those who'd prefer to see this thread buried six feet deep (I'll admit that there are times I've felt that way (and maybe will feel that way again (very soon?)): The recent reports about how the energy markets (and the commodity markets more broadly) are in a complete and total tailspin has got me thinking: Did aw shucks plainspoken Terry see some writing on the wall? Of course, the timing could just be a coincidence -- maybe a fortuitous one for all concerned.

 

I'll add this: Pegula closed on that deal that freed up cash for him to buy the Bills in ~July 2014. It was in August/ September 2014 that the price of oil started its fall off of gotdam cliff.

 

"Saudi Arabia, a giant energy economy, has had to tap the credit markets as its financial reserves dwindle. Venezuela, an oil-rich nation that went on a spending spree, is struggling to meet $10 billion in debt obligations this year, since 95 percent of export earnings depend on crude oil."

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/commodities/global-commodities-glut-the-slump-in-china/articleshow/50531311.cms

 

The value of pro sports franchises appears to have fared better in recent times.

Edited January 11, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[MattPie]

With apologies who'd prefer to see this thread buried six feet deep (I'll admit that there are times I've felt that way (and maybe will feel that way again (very soon?)): The recent reports about how the energy markets (and the commodity markets more broadly) are in a complete and total tailspin has got me thinking: Did aw shucks plainspoken Terry see some writing on the wall? Of course, the timing could just be a coincidence -- maybe a fortuitous one for all concerned.

 

I'll add this: Pegula closed on that deal that freed up cash for him to buy the Bills in ~July 2014. It was in August/ September 2014 that the price of oil started its fall off of gotdam cliff.

 

"Saudi Arabia, a giant energy economy, has had to tap the credit markets as its financial reserves dwindle. Venezuela, an oil-rich nation that went on a spending spree, is struggling to meet $10 billion in debt obligations this year, since 95 percent of export earnings depend on crude oil."

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/commodities/global-commodities-glut-the-slump-in-china/articleshow/50531311.cms

 

The value of pro sports franchises appears to have fared better in recent times.

 

Interesting idea, but I don't think it holds water due to the way the Bills were sold. This was a once in perhaps a lifetime chance to buy the team, which I believe he expressed interest in before. Maybe he saw the market "crash" coming, and the timing did seem to work out for him, but I'm not sure he'd have done differently if he didn't see market issues on the horizon.

[woods-racer]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[That Aud Smell]

It's a little hard to follow because of the HTML formatting issues (get on it, Kanalley!), but this is a nice story from Brian Duff about what it's like to work for the Pegulas.

 

http://sabres.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=807342&cmpid=sm-tw-news

[K-9]

It's a little hard to follow because of the HTML formatting issues (get on it, Kanalley!), but this is a nice story from Brian Duff about what it's like to work for the Pegulas.

 

http://sabres.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=807342&cmpid=sm-tw-news

Great. More fluff pieces for an owner more committed to his bottom line than trying to build a winner. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Stoner]

Great. More fluff pieces for an owner more committed to his bottom line than trying to build a winner. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Nope. My only reference to Terry in the Leafs thread was that he should meddle in the business side and tell Gilbert the quote was inappropriate. But I think he lets those people do what they want. People wanted to make it mean old PA vs. TP. It sells papers.

[K-9]

Nope. My only reference to Terry in the Leafs thread was that he should meddle in the business side and tell Gilbert the quote was inappropriate. But I think he lets those people do what they want. People wanted to make it mean old PA vs. TP. It sells papers.

You really are quite smitten with yourself, aren't you?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[That Aud Smell]

But I think he lets those people do what they want.

Sign of a good manager, generally. Unless someone's fully off the Rez.

[Stoner]

Sign of a good manager, generally. Unless someone's fully off the Rez.

It's funny, if I'm right, that the place he is best equipped to meddle is where he decides not to go. At least Kim said she goes to the business offices and he goes to the GM side. Maybe it's that infamous vending machine full of snacks that TB talked about.

[TheAud]

With apologies to those who'd prefer to see this thread buried six feet deep (I'll admit that there are times I've felt that way (and maybe will feel that way again (very soon?)): The recent reports about how the energy markets (and the commodity markets more broadly) are in a complete and total tailspin has got me thinking: Did aw shucks plainspoken Terry see some writing on the wall? Of course, the timing could just be a coincidence -- maybe a fortuitous one for all concerned.

 

I'll add this: Pegula closed on that deal that freed up cash for him to buy the Bills in ~July 2014. It was in August/ September 2014 that the price of oil started its fall off of gotdam cliff.

 

"Saudi Arabia, a giant energy economy, has had to tap the credit markets as its financial reserves dwindle. Venezuela, an oil-rich nation that went on a spending spree, is struggling to meet $10 billion in debt obligations this year, since 95 percent of export earnings depend on crude oil."

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/commodities/global-commodities-glut-the-slump-in-china/articleshow/50531311.cms

 

The value of pro sports franchises appears to have fared better in recent times.

Commodity markets cycle like this all the time over a period of many years. Pegula was just fortunate the Bills sale came up before the latest crash. 

If he 'knew' it was going to happen he could have effectively shorted the market and be worth $30B instead of $3B. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sakman

[That Aud Smell]

Commodity markets cycle like this all the time over a period of many years. Pegula was just fortunate the Bills sale came up before the latest crash. 

If he 'knew' it was going to happen he could have effectively shorted the market and be worth $30B instead of $3B. 

 

Excellent point.

[That Aud Smell]

The charge: meddling. I'm more than happy to lead the prosecution.

Well I'll be darned: Mirtle as PA's expert witness.

 

"Just hire good people and get out of the way. Don't talk. Don't meddle. You have one job."

 

That's a Tweet from last night at 9:32. I can't do better in terms of presentation while on a phone. The above quoted Tweet appears as a reply (one of many) to his own initial Tweet about ownership being at the root of many Canadian teams' struggles.

 

We'd sorta knee capped this thread based on the idea that meddling isn't really a chargeable offence in the realm of sports team owners.

 

But Mirtle commands respect. (No slight intended, PA.) I might be back on the meddling watch.

 

Fwiw, when it comes to the Sabres: GM TM seems to be in control of matters hockey.

 

+++

 

Edit:

 

A worthy reply in the thread of @'s on Mirtle's Twitter:

 

"@mirtle it's sort of a baby bear thing, too involved or too distant both present problems."

Edited March 23, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[That Aud Smell]

Now that I'm at a desktop, here's what Mirtle had said:

 

James MirtleVerified account‏@mirtle

Just hire good people and get out of the way. Don't talk. Don't meddle. You have one job.

 

9:32 PM - 22 Mar 2016

Edited March 23, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[Stoner]

It's common sense, really. Terry, knowing virtually nothing about the sport of hockey and absolute zero about running an NHL team, shouldn't have been as close to the decision-making process as he was (if not actually making decisions himself). The Sabres' reason for existence, at first anyway, was not to win a Cup, but to win with Terry leading the way, to be Terry's toy. I am hopeful things have changed, but maybe they're just doing a better job of camouflaging what Terry is doing. The Finlay hire, which bordered directly on hockey operations, is not a good sign.

 

"We" didn't agree that owners can't technically meddle, you did, after receiving a package from Kim Pegula, followed by lengthy delays in the trial while you were in chambers. One of my major points all along was that if 29 owners are meddling and ours isn't, it's a huge advantage for us. But Terry couldn't resist. He hurt the team in doing so, and I won't let him off the hook for that. I would venture to bet that none of the regulars on this board would have run the team in that fashion if handed the keys. Remember, Terry, despite his wealth, is JAG like the rest of us. (And I'm pretty sure if he posted here, he'd be laughed off the board.)

 

This feels good. Thanks Smell!

[That Aud Smell]

The Finlay hire, which bordered directly on hockey operations, is not a good sign.

 

Agreed. Hopefully harmless.

 

"We" didn't agree that owners can't technically meddle, you did, 

 

Strictly speaking, I think I might've "ruled" based on an amicus brief from X.

 

 

after receiving a package from Kim Pegula, followed by lengthy delays in the trial while you were in chambers. 

 

Oh, dear.

 

 

One of my major points all along was that if 29 owners are meddling and ours isn't, it's a huge advantage for us. But Terry couldn't resist. He hurt the team in doing so, and I won't let him off the hook for that. I would venture to bet that none of the regulars on this board would have run the team in that fashion if handed the keys. Remember, Terry, despite his wealth, is JAG like the rest of us. (And I'm pretty sure if he posted here, he'd be laughed off the board.)

 

I wonder how many of them can, or do. 

 

As was stated upthread several times: The question here is really one of degree. I am guardedly optimistic that Pegula has mostly stepped back and is allowing knowledgeable people to run the show. OTOH, at least insofar as the Bills are concerned, the Rex Ryan hire is one that continues to concern me.

 

Which raises a theme others have addressed before: Pegula buying the Bills and building HarborCenter might ultimately be good for the Sabres (because his attentions are focused elsewhere).

This feels good. Thanks Smell!

 

Well, you're welcome. I guess. 

 

When I saw Mirtle's Tweet, I truly muttered "sonnuvagunnnn ..."  It read as though you'd written it.

Edited March 23, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[TrueBlueGED]

I like Mirtle a lot, but who says he knows more about running a winning team than a team owner does? Dude's a journalist, and he's your expert witness on running a professional sports franchise? Bring him to the stand, I'll shred him on cross!  :devil:

[That Aud Smell]

I like Mirtle a lot, but who says he knows more about running a winning team than a team owner does? Dude's a journalist, and he's your expert witness on running a professional sports franchise? Bring him to the stand, I'll shred him on cross!  :devil:

 

Hahaha. Sure thing. I'll issue a Sabrespace subpoena forthwith.

 

More seriously, though: The fact that a well-considered, serious-thinking member of the Canadian hockey MSM said just about precisely what PA had said from the beginning was ... significant. At least, it seemed to be.

[TrueBlueGED]

Hahaha. Sure thing. I'll issue a Sabrespace subpoena forthwith.

 

More seriously, though: The fact that a well-considered, serious-thinking member of the Canadian hockey MSM said just about precisely what PA had said from the beginning was ... significant. At least, it seemed to be.

 

I don't think there was ever much disagreement on the argument in principle, was there? I don't recall many calling for owners to be more hands-on, but rather an acknowledgment that most owners will be hands on to some degree and stick their nose in whether it's directly to specific decisions or broader constraints on the front office.

[Stoner]

I acknowledge the psychology behind being an antipegulite. We had those weeks and months leading up to the initial presser to make Terry whatever we wanted him to be in our minds. When I heard longtime Sabres fan and Pennsylvania native, oh wow, my imagination took off. I imagined an oil and gas guy I've known my whole life, pulling up to the arena in a pickup wearing shitkickers, announcing in his best Harrison Ford, but somehow with a Western PA accent, "Get off my team." Cleaning house. Then being smart enough to find the best hockey people in the world and stepping back. A sticky wicket there, eh?

 

Then I imagine myself as Terry, with Terry's money. I wouldn't do anything the way he's done it. You wouldn't have seen me on the ice before a game, in the war room, at the draft table. I so readily acknowledge my ignorance of running a hockey team I wouldn't have touched any of it. I would have been inclined to hire a strong hockey president and give him many of the powers of ownership. But being so meak and deferential is one reason I'm PA and he's TPegs. Guys like that don't do what guys like me would do if I were he... him... whatever. Another stick wicket.

 

So I guess I punish Terry for not being the Terry I fantasized about him being.

 

Just for some balance, and I don't do nearly a good enough job expressing this, I think Terry cares, I think he wants to win, I know he's willing to spend to do so. He's not a monster. He's a good owner. But we're so close to absolute ownership perfection, it's tantalizing. I hope he's learning to get out of the way. #thanksmirtle

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think there was ever much disagreement on the argument in principle, was there? I don't recall many calling for owners to be more hands-on, but rather an acknowledgment that most owners will be hands on to some degree and stick their nose in whether it's directly to specific decisions or broader constraints on the front office.

 

You're right that it's really a question of degree.

 

And: After submissions of "proof" over whether Pegula was meddling with the Sabres, there was a fair amount of jousting over whether "meddling" could even be considered a "crime" of an owner, or whether it's just implicit in the profile. I wound up leaving the thing (debate) for dead because I came to see meddling as inevitable, even unremarkable.

 

Then when Mirtle Tweeted language that was the very essence of one of PA's credos, I took notice.

So I guess I punish Terry for not being the Terry I fantasized about him being.

 

Just for some balance, and I don't do nearly a good enough job expressing this, I think Terry cares, I think he wants to win, I know he's willing to spend to do so. He's not a monster. He's a good owner. But we're so close to absolute ownership perfection, it's tantalizing. I hope he's learning to get out of the way. #thanksmirtle

 

Now don't go and ruining the thread just after I revived it!

 

(Seriously, though. That's good stuff.)

I hope he's learning to get out of the way.

 

In the words of my teenagers: YASSS.

[Hank]

Terry's the owner. It's his team, it's his money, he can be as involved as he wants to be. There's no "we". There's no "us". It's his, and he don't owe the fanatics a damn thing. It amazes me the sense of entitlement some seem to have. I'm also amused and entertained, so please, carry on...

[That Aud Smell]

Terry's the owner. It's his team, it's his money,  . . . . There's no "we". There's no "us". It's his, and he don't owe the fanatics a damn thing. It amazes me the sense of entitlement some seem to have. I'm also amused and entertained, so please, carry on...

 

I understand that perspective. I even acknowledge that it is more true than not. I also find it tiresome.

 

If you're a fan and you don't believe, at least on some level, that there is a "we," an "us," and that the owners are custodians of something that belongs to people who call themselves fans, then, well, I'm not sure why you're a fan (or that you are one).

[Hank]

I'm a fan, just like you. Not better, not worse. Wether or not our glasses have the same tint doesn't change that.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Hank

[darksabre]

I actually think Mirtle is a dope. But that's just me I guess. I don't honestly know why he gets so much respect.