The "trial" of Terry Pegula

[...]

These outbursts seem like the last attempts of denial to assert itself before vanishing completely.

 

To me it's akin to the denial of the existence of significant threats to the country, or that the United States federal government can (or, more accurately, has) turn against the people, that'd we see two blizzards here in one winter, or that there's life on other planets. If can deny those, I guess you can deny that Pegula has meddled to the detriment of the team.

 

 

[nfreeman]

 

 

4 years....

 

4 trade deadlines...

 

1 month away from 4th season...

 

3 months away from 4th draft....

 

Please Retract....

 

We are 37 months in. There have been 3 offseasons and 2 completed hockey seasons. one of which was a 48-game monstrosity. 2 training camps. 3 drafts. 3 FA periods.

 

There is just no reasonable way it can be characterized as 4 years.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

3 years...4 years...20 years......Yes....he is a GIFT......

 

 

[Marvelo]

3 years...4 years...20 years......Yes....he is a GIFT......

 

if he's a gift, I'd like to return it.

[nfreeman]

if he's a gift, I'd like to return it.

 

What other realistic alternative owners would you prefer, and why? Please be specific.

[I am Defecting]

Warren Buffett, because he's already invested in Buffalo, puts the right people in charge, letting them do their jobs, and it would make a great news story.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Marcellus

[Marvelo]

What other realistic alternative owners would you prefer, and why? Please be specific.

 

I really don't keep track of who's out there who wants to buy a hockey team, especially in the Buffalo market. But it seems like our ownership group already has rumblngs of preparing the team for the next owner. I never heard of Rigas, Golisano and Pegula before they were chosen for us by the NHL. I wish I had an answer of a person who has tons of cash and lots of hockey smarts and has a feel for the city of Buffalo but I don't

know who would invest in a money-losing situation like that. One guy I heard of is Sherry Bassin but he's probably too old at 74. I always thought Phil Esposito, who was kicked out of Tampa Bay by the Steinbrenner ownership group (read his book, it's hilarious) might make a good owner.

 

btw, I think this is a great take by Jim Lorentz in TBN about what's been happening with the Sabres. I always thought he had a good handle on what's really going in.

 

 

 

Jim Lorentz

 

...Lorentz, who is about to turn 67, misses very few TV games. What does he think of the team?

“Not very much,” said Lorentz. “What was surprising to me I wasn’t sure what Darcy (former general manager Darcy Regier) was trying to do. I thought it was really, really unfair what they did to the fans here in the approach they took to try and redevelop the team. And they put them in a really bad position – the fans and the organization.”

Lorentz was shocked by the quick departure of Pat LaFontaine as president of hockey operations.

“I think it is a public relations disaster,” said Lorentz. “I’m a big supporter of Pat. He brought a lot of class and credibility to the organization. I don’t know what happened but I think it is really bad for the organization.”

He is a fan of Coach Ted Nolan.

“Even when he was coaching the New York Islanders, I remember the (2007) playoff series and Buffalo was damn lucky to win that series. I thought the Islanders outworked them,” said Lorentz. “Buffalo just won by its talent. I’ve always impressed by what he’s been able to get from his players. He is one of the best I’ve seen from getting the most out of them.”

“He spends more time on trying to motivate players. … Today’s game gets too structured and it takes away from the players’ imagination and creativity. Ted wants the work ethic and he knows if you get the work ethic the talent is going to come to the forefront and that overcomes a lot of things.”

Lorentz still watches games like an analyst and wishes he could explain some things going on.

And what is his view of Sabres analyst Rob Ray?

“I think Rob has a lot of potential, but I don’t think he has learned how to do the job yet,” said Lorentz. “I think he has good insight, but I don’t think he has learned how to deliver it yet. I think he needs to do more preparation with coaches.”

Lorentz also agrees with my criticism of Ray.

“Somebody should give him a grammar book,” said Lorentz. “I don’t mean to be rough on him. All I’m saying is he needs to clean up the grammar.”

He doesn’t regret leaving the booth and isn’t envious of Jeanneret, who also has tired of traveling but has been able to work a reduced schedule.

“If I could have done home games, I would have been fine with that,” said Lorentz. “Different time, different ownership, different philosophy. When I retired, I think they wanted more continuity. I understand that.”

He believes it might take a while before the Sabres can turn it around and become more watchable.

“I would have to say three to four years,” said Lorentz. “It depends, too, on what they can pick up on the free agent market. With free agents, you can turn it around pretty quickly. But they have all these young players and draft choices and you just never know how they are going to turn out. You can have all the No. 1 picks that you want but it doesn’t mean they are going to play in the league.”

- Alan Pergament

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2014 by 716

[Stoner]

What other realistic alternative owners would you prefer, and why? Please be specific.

 

Terry in Boca and his cronies back where they came from.

[Claude_Verret]

And I'm not even mad. I'm really ambivalent, because at the end of the day, none of this ###### matters. Pegula owns the team, He'll operate it in the fashion of his choosing. And whether you agree or disagree with what it is, it is what it is.

 

This.

 

Terry in Boca and his cronies back where they came from.

 

Not gonna happen. Ever. So I really don't see the point of continuing to bring up all this 'evidence'. Unless you just want everyone to admit that Pegula is a meddler. If that's what it takes to stop the insanity then I'll be the first to admit it since none of it matters one iota. Everyone please join along with me:

 

Pegula has been and always will be a meddler.

[That Aud Smell]

What other realistic alternative owners would you prefer, and why? Please be specific.

Terry in Boca and his cronies back where they came from.

 

Hey, Professor Pangloss, he said "realistic". Your reply doesn't meet the criteria.

 

Not gonna happen. Ever.

 

I think this is right.

 

But, hey, maybe TP will sell the team to some cash poor charlatan who never says a peep about how hockey ops get run and never shows his face around town, not ever.

 

And then we will all be happy.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

What other realistic alternative owners would you prefer, and why? Please be specific.

 

"there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.".........

 

This was your quote. We ARE going on 4 years....we have seen the man in action...we have our current situation and projected results for the next few seasons. What kind of "gift" owner has the franchise as the unquestioned worst in the league for his first 5-7 years of ownership? The Sabres can win 3 Cups, 10 years from now, sure....but to assume they will is much more outlandish than taking what we have seen so far at face value.

 

Is Pegula willing to sell for fair market value? I don't know who would be interested. I can come up with 300 names of who could run a safer ship. Braging about Pegula's checkbook is like bragging about having the biggest cannon in a war. The thing is, that cannon is so big, it has zero accuracy. Not only does it send shots all over the place, but a charge or two has exploded in the barrel and wiped out his own crew.

 

I was downtown for basketball this week, and had discussions with a few people about what that arena area is looking like. Who is going to want to or have the means to operate a project that big in this city if these guys disappear? Or worse, what if a black swan pops up over the next few years and the project isn't completed? It is a disproportionate amount of capital for this city in terms of size, location, and one person in control. If you aren't 100% confident in Pegula being balls out in the area the next 20 years, this whole situation has the possibility of being another star chapter in the city's history book. I don't have that faith....I would have to question the long term viability of anyone in this situation, and did when the project was being mulled over. It wasn't the safe play. We will see.....I have seen enough though now to be overly concerned. Not to mention the political motives...which we will not know for some time. Maybe there aren't any, but after watching all the tit-for-tat in PA with the Sabres Crew and their politicians, you can't say it isn't an interest of theirs. There is a juicy 50 square block of potential political blackmail that will be ripe for the using going forward. Not saying anything will happen, but I don't feel it is anything but rational for some to question leadership capabilities and motives given what we have seen happen with the Sabres.

 

[nfreeman]

"there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.".........

 

This was your quote. We ARE going on 4 years....we have seen the man in action...we have our current situation and projected results for the next few seasons. What kind of "gift" owner has the franchise as the unquestioned worst in the league for his first 5-7 years of ownership? The Sabres can win 3 Cups, 10 years from now, sure....but to assume they will is much more outlandish than taking what we have seen so far at face value.

 

Is Pegula willing to sell for fair market value? I don't know who would be interested. I can come up with 300 names of who could run a safer ship. Braging about Pegula's checkbook is like bragging about having the biggest cannon in a war. The thing is, that cannon is so big, it has zero accuracy. Not only does it send shots all over the place, but a charge or two has exploded in the barrel and wiped out his own crew.

 

I was downtown for basketball this week, and had discussions with a few people about what that arena area is looking like. Who is going to want to or have the means to operate a project that big in this city if these guys disappear? Or worse, what if a black swan pops up over the next few years and the project isn't completed? It is a disproportionate amount of capital for this city in terms of size, location, and one person in control. If you aren't 100% confident in Pegula being balls out in the area the next 20 years, this whole situation has the possibility of being another star chapter in the city's history book. I don't have that faith....I would have to question the long term viability of anyone in this situation, and did when the project was being mulled over. It wasn't the safe play. We will see.....I have seen enough though now to be overly concerned. Not to mention the political motives...which we will not know for some time. Maybe there aren't any, but after watching all the tit-for-tat in PA with the Sabres Crew and their politicians, you can't say it isn't an interest of theirs. There is a juicy 50 square block of potential political blackmail that will be ripe for the using going forward. Not saying anything will happen, but I don't feel it is anything but rational for some to question leadership capabilities and motives given what we have seen happen with the Sabres.

 

It's not the size of the checkbook. It's the willingness to lose millions upon millions of dollars in the effort to build a great team.

 

As for exploding charges -- the only charge that has exploded was his willingness to stick with DR. You (and others) were right about that being a mistake. But it was a mistake of patience and trust, not one of "meddling" or shady real estate deals or implied chicanery.

 

(Now, you may think that PLF's departure was another exploding charge. But I think you will likely agree that nobody knows what happened and that it's quite likely, based on the various reports of PLF's behavior, that PLF contributed to the situation.)

 

You are right that no one else is going to be interested in funding a downtown/waterfront development in the same way TP has. But that is exactly my point -- it's a gift from heaven. It's a great thing for our city, which has been left to die on the vine by a deeply corrupt state legislature and local political/labor oligarchy. Why would you suspect a future blackmail on this? Would anyone really partially build a major development with the idea of getting the city pregnant and then extorting various payoffs from an extremely poor city and/or a near-bankrupt state? That would be a highly illogical move for someone that is (i) already stinking rich and (ii) able to simply start another fracking business if he wants to make more money.

 

And if you think Albany is going to give TP fracking rights in NY because he might decide to hold WNY hostage -- NFW. Albany doesn't give a crap about WNY. And again, TP spending a ton of money in Buffalo because he hopes the NYS legislature (which is completely in the pocket of the NYC liberal establishment) is going to someday approve fracking would be an insane plan. There are a dozen other states where he can frack.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

https://twitter.com/eileenbuc/status/397933291979812864/photo/1

 

These guys were backing Tom Corbett since he was an assistant DA....that worked out swell for all parties. Benson is the finance chairman for Sen. Toomey.

 

I have no clue what their long term thinking is in NYS....but I think what we have seen, however you classify the Lafontaine situation, is that you aren't just getting Terry Pegula, the owner of the Buffalo Sabres. You are getting Terry Pegula and Crew, a real estate, political, energy, and hockey/entertainment conglomerate. You can't deny it at this point. Battista was hired through East Resources. Benson through the Sabres. Yet Battista is the self proclaimed VP of Hockey Operations, and Benson is running the point at Harbor Center. Isn't that backwards given who employs them? That's the deal....we aren't looking at a traditional owner anymore. It is more of a Pegula Cloud.

 

It is what it is, and after the 3 month return to pure fandom I had where I was willing to look at things in a pure positive fashion and allow the benefit of the doubt, all my original concerns were amplified when Lafontaine left. I am not nearly as passionate about it because at least Regier is gone, and a capable talent evaluator seems to be in place, but I am lukewarm at best now. Even Nolan seems to have lost the magic. It could be the end of novelty and more tape on his system and patterns, or it could be that he believed too for 3 months, and after having the life experience and seeing what happened here again, he is lukewarm as well. It's pretty deflating for me as a fan. I just don't have the energy to worry as much. I want to believe Pegula is pure at heart, but even if he is, that doesn't mean this franchise will be a success under him...and given past, current, and projected results his first 5+ seasons here, I think it is more than fair to question his value as a leader. I hope for the city and it's peoples' sake, he turns out to be that gift you so proclaim. When I hold up that mustard stained wrapped gift to my ear though.....I hear ticking.......

[I am Defecting]

https://twitter.com/...9812864/photo/1

 

These guys were backing Tom Corbett since he was an assistant DA....that worked out swell for all parties. Benson is the finance chairman for Sen. Toomey.

 

I have no clue what their long term thinking is in NYS....but I think what we have seen, however you classify the Lafontaine situation, is that you aren't just getting Terry Pegula, the owner of the Buffalo Sabres. You are getting Terry Pegula and Crew, a real estate, political, energy, and hockey/entertainment conglomerate. You can't deny it at this point. Battista was hired through East Resources. Benson through the Sabres. Yet Battista is the self proclaimed VP of Hockey Operations, and Benson is running the point at Harbor Center. Isn't that backwards given who employs them? That's the deal....we aren't looking at a traditional owner anymore. It is more of a Pegula Cloud.

 

When I hold up that mustard stained wrapped gift to my ear though.....I hear ticking.......

 

More of a Mustard Tiger, if you ask me..."Sole Mania, Mustard, Perreault, Hotdogs, ETC."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGfUB58gaYw

 

I think that the ladder is symbolic, for the more philosophic among you... ;) We've seen this story before: PA Wildcatter gets Bitchslapped by NY Savycats. Long time ago, we decided that it would be better for the People to own the Gold beneath the ground, and it should be no different with the Natural Gas. It really sucks when someone tries to tug your heartstrings with your sportsteams. Specially when it's a PA gangster. #NYState

Edited May 30, 2014 by Yuri Olesha

[Stoner]

Where's Perreault=Which One's Perreault?

[That Aud Smell]

Geoff Molson: Admitted meddler.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/canadiens-owner-had-final-word-on-p-k--subban--to-shock-of-no-one-173403572.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

 

As are, apparently, Ted Leonsis, Jeff Vanderbeek, and Ed Snider.

[Stoner]

Geoff Molson: Admitted meddler.

 

http://sports.yahoo....diacontentstory

 

As are, apparently, Ted Leonsis, Jeff Vanderbeek, and Ed Snider.

 

A plain, unvarnished question. The owner of the Habs, not a hockey man, is meddling. If our owner, who also is not a hockey man, doesn't meddle, isn't that necessarily an advantage for us? Unless anyone can be a good NHL GM, it would have to be.

[IKnowPhysics]

Montreal press is trying to spin up a front office controversy on the basis of meddling. The article linked refutes that notion (rather reasonably, I think).

 

...

That Molson would take an active role in those negotiations is understandable, logical and in the end not all that out of line with what’s expected from an NHL team owner that doubles as the franchise’s president.

...

This notion from Todd has been spun in some circles as an indication that Molson and his GM aren't on the same page.

 

The idea that there’s a power struggle between a general manager fighting for a short-term deal and an owner stomping all over him to hand Subban a long-term deal is a juicy one; because any inkling that an activist owner and his stubborn GM aren’t getting along, or that the GM has been reduced to puppet status, is especially sexy when it involves hockey’s most sacrosanct franchise.

Edited August 11, 2014 by IKnowPhysics

[TrueBlueGED]

A plain, unvarnished question. The owner of the Habs, not a hockey man, is meddling. If our owner, who also is not a hockey man, doesn't meddle, isn't that necessarily an advantage for us? Unless anyone can be a good NHL GM, it would have to be.

 

If the Habs were going to be stuck with Subban on an arbitration contract as opposed to signed long term, then their owner's meddling worked to their advantage, not disadvantage.

[LastPommerFan]

Darcy Regier is a Hockey Man...

 

Garth Snow is a Hockey Man...

[That Aud Smell]

A plain, unvarnished question. The owner of the Habs, not a hockey man, is meddling. If our owner, who also is not a hockey man, doesn't meddle, isn't that necessarily an advantage for us? Unless anyone can be a good NHL GM, it would have to be.

 

My point (if I had one) was to confirm the conclusion I'd reached somewhere upthread: That "meddling" is no more a "crime" on the part of an owner than signing paychecks is -- i.e., it's an activity in which all owners engage to one degree or another. The key, as with most things in life, appears to be the practice of reasonable restraint and some level of moderation.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Darcy Regier is a Hockey Man...

 

Garth Snow is a Hockey Man...

 

next up on greatest jokes of the decade...

[Sabres Fan in NS]

next up on greatest jokes of the decade...

 

Well, they are employed by NHL teams.

 

Therefore, that makes them "hockey men".

 

They just have not been very good at it, in part, perhaps, due to the owners they have worked for.

[Stoner]

If the Habs were going to be stuck with Subban on an arbitration contract as opposed to signed long term, then their owner's meddling worked to their advantage, not disadvantage.

 

Then either Molson should also name himself general manager, or hire a new general manager.

 

My point (if I had one) was to confirm the conclusion I'd reached somewhere upthread: That "meddling" is no more a "crime" on the part of an owner than signing paychecks is -- i.e., it's an activity in which all owners engage to one degree or another. The key, as with most things in life, appears to be the practice of reasonable restraint and some level of moderation.

 

Oy. Holy non sequitur. I don't care if every owner meddles. It's still wrong. And if every other owner meddles, and ours doesn't, advantage us. I'd love to see Terry's reaction if a non oil and gas man took over his beloved East Resources and started acting like he knew where to frack.

 

This is great! Thanks for bringing this thread back to life, Aud!!!!!!

[Doohicksie]

Darcy Regier is a Hockey Man...

 

Garth Snow is a Hockey Man...

next up on greatest jokes of the decade...

 

No, it's a valid point GC makes. Regier and Snow both played in the NHL (albeit briefly in Regier's case), and both have had long careers in NHL front offices. Pegula, for instance, is *not* a hockey man. He is a fan, he had some involvement with the Penn State hockey program as a benefactor, and he bought the Buffalo Sabres. But his career has not been primarily involved with hockey; Regier and Snow's careers have been pretty much all hockey. No, they're not good hockey men at the executive level, but they must be better than most to even get the job, eh?