OT: Explosions at the Boston Marathon

[Eleven]

This is a fairly amazing statement.

 

 

Nope. I know the politically correct thing to do every time radical Islam comes up is to pretend that every culture and every religion on earth is exactly the same. That doesn't mean it's true.

 

 

Without a successful one. The Times Square Bomber, Shoe Bomber, and Underwear Bomber all failed.

 

But a bunch of good ol' non-Muslim Americans succeeded in Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut ...

[nfreeman]

Didn't Junior Seau shoot himself in the chest so that his brain could be studied? One of those guys did, anyway.

 

You've made the mistake of asking a question whose answer might not fit a narrative. Kind of like asking, gee, why would anyone want to attack the United States, when we have hearts of gold. Must be that they hate us for our freedom, and are evil. /ducks

 

Perhaps people who believe in the narrative (i.e. bloodthirsty militant Islamists present an ongoing danger to the US) don't really give a crap about defending "the narrative" and simply just want to prevent a recurrence of the casualties that are part and parcel of the narrative -- and thus aren't really interested in what they regard as far-fetched alternative explanations.

 

The International policies of the US, down through the ages has played no small role, in any of these peoples actions, IMO. That's not to say that I in any way agree with those actions against the US, but one really needs to look at the root causes.

 

I don't agree with this at all. A man is the sum of his actions. Everyone has issues in his or her past. Not everyone deals with those issues by committing mass murder -- or celebrating those that do.

 

Until these MFs decide to grow up and join the civilized world, their grievances are irrelevant and the only appropriate response is also the only one they understand.

[nfreeman]

But a bunch of good ol' non-Muslim Americans succeeded in Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut ...

 

Apples and oranges, as I suspect you know.

[LastPommerFan]

Perhaps people who believe in the narrative (i.e. bloodthirsty militant Islamists present an ongoing danger to the US) don't really give a crap about defending "the narrative" and simply just want to prevent a recurrence of the casualties that are part and parcel of the narrative -- and thus aren't really interested in what they regard as far-fetched alternative explanations.

 

The problem with this is that when presented with a hypothesis that is supplemental not contradictory to their narrative, it was dismissed out of hand. Me hypothesizing that this guy had rage and depression caused by a brain disorder, and then focused that aggression when presented with jihad, is met with:

 

If you are serious, I want to put an oyster schucker through my own temple, because this drips of more feminine sap than a Darcy Regier roster......

 

I was trying to make an honest suggestion about a potential contributing factor, and suddenly I'm a lily-livered liberal militant islam apologist. If a persons worldview is so ingrained that they must dismiss even minor challenges to it immediately, they will find it easy to miss key evidence and potential mitigation methods.

[Eleven]

Apples and oranges, as I suspect you know.

 

Because guns, not bombs? Is that really the difference?

 

Ok. So what about the guy up in Spokane a couple of years ago, during the MLK day parade? The guy who flew his plane into the government building in Austin? The bombs in the Maryland government building a couple of years ago?

 

Or were not enough people injured, or what? What's the difference this time? Still not Muslims and still not thwarted.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

I was trying to make an honest suggestion about a potential contributing factor, and suddenly I'm a lily-livered liberal militant islam apologist. If a persons worldview is so ingrained that they must dismiss even minor challenges to it immediately, they will find it easy to miss key evidence and potential mitigation methods.

 

Did you not read my reply?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Perhaps people who believe in the narrative (i.e. bloodthirsty militant Islamists present an ongoing danger to the US) don't really give a crap about defending "the narrative" and simply just want to prevent a recurrence of the casualties that are part and parcel of the narrative -- and thus aren't really interested in what they regard as far-fetched alternative explanations.

 

 

 

I don't agree with this at all. A man is the sum of his actions. Everyone has issues in his or her past. Not everyone deals with those issues by committing mass murder -- or celebrating those that do.

 

Until these MFs decide to grow up and join the civilized world, their grievances are irrelevant and the only appropriate response is also the only one they understand.

 

Then expect to have these actions continue.

 

Step back and ask the question posed by PA ... why do these people hate us so much?

[LastPommerFan]

Did you not read my reply?

 

I did, and you dismissed my hypothesis because it sounded like "a potential excuse". Which is exactly what I'm trying to say.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Apples and oranges, as I suspect you know.

 

No it's not, IMO.

 

The underlying root cause to action is the same.

[wjag]

Apples and oranges, as I suspect you know.

 

 

more like tangerines and tangelos, me thinks.

[Robviously]

Because guns, not bombs? Is that really the difference?

 

Ok. So what about the guy up in Spokane a couple of years ago, during the MLK day parade? The guy who flew his plane into the government building in Austin? The bombs in the Maryland government building a couple of years ago?

 

Or were not enough people injured, or what? What's the difference this time? Still not Muslims and still not thwarted.

No, the difference is organized movements and belief systems, and lone nut jobs.

 

I'd love to hear anyone even try to categorize the Aurora shooter, or the Arizona shooter, or the Virginia Tech shooter, or the IRS building in Austin. (In the last case, his note mentioned the Communist Manifesto but was so incoherent that he doesn't even belong in that group.) These guys are insane. They're closer to serial killers than any type of political, social, or religious movement. Or any movement.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Then expect to have these actions continue.

 

Step back and ask the question posed by PA ... why do these people hate us so much?

 

That's a valid question....and those debates are very good to have.

 

Why do Sabres fans hate the Bruins and celebrate when Thornton got taken off with a concussion?

[TrueBlueGED]

Then expect to have these actions continue.

 

Step back and ask the question posed by PA ... why do these people hate us so much?

 

Are you suggesting actions which result in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians may result in some bad blood with the responsible party? Surely, you jest! ;)

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No, the difference is organized movements and belief systems, and lone nut jobs.

 

I'd love to hear anyone even try to categorize the Aurora shooter, or the Arizona shooter, or the Virginia Tech shooter, or the IRS building in Austin. (In the last case, his note mentioned the Communist Manifesto but was so incoherent that he doesn't even belong in that group.) These guys are insane. They're closer to serial killers than any type of political, social, or religious movement. Or any movement.

 

Waco ...

 

Ruby Ridge ...

[Robviously]

Waco ...

 

Ruby Ridge ...

Are proof of what?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Are proof of what?

 

... type of political, social, or religious movement. Or any movement.

 

From your previous post.

[nfreeman]

Because guns, not bombs? Is that really the difference?

 

Ok. So what about the guy up in Spokane a couple of years ago, during the MLK day parade? The guy who flew his plane into the government building in Austin? The bombs in the Maryland government building a couple of years ago?

 

Or were not enough people injured, or what? What's the difference this time? Still not Muslims and still not thwarted.

No it's not, IMO.

 

The underlying root cause to action is the same.

No, the difference is organized movements and belief systems, and lone nut jobs.

 

I'd love to hear anyone even try to categorize the Aurora shooter, or the Arizona shooter, or the Virginia Tech shooter, or the IRS building in Austin. (In the last case, his note mentioned the Communist Manifesto but was so incoherent that he doesn't even belong in that group.) These guys are insane. They're closer to serial killers than any type of political, social, or religious movement. Or any movement.

 

Beat me to it. I would just add that the policy approach to preventing this kind of situation is qualitatively different than the policy approach to militant Islamists. (To circle back to GCOE's original post, it is in situations like this one that it's more worthwhile to look at causes like concussion syndrome.)

 

Then expect to have these actions continue.

 

Step back and ask the question posed by PA ... why do these people hate us so much?

 

I do expect these actions to continue -- or at least the desire to attempt them. That's why it's necessary to take the fight to the enemy, not try to make nice and hope they stop attacking. The beast needs to be attacked and killed in its lair.

 

And there are a number of good theories as to why these people hate us so much, but again, I don't really care and I don't think it matters.

[Eleven]

No, the difference is organized movements and belief systems, and lone nut jobs.

 

I'd love to hear anyone even try to categorize the Aurora shooter, or the Arizona shooter, or the Virginia Tech shooter, or the IRS building in Austin. (In the last case, his note mentioned the Communist Manifesto but was so incoherent that he doesn't even belong in that group.) These guys are insane. They're closer to serial killers than any type of political, social, or religious movement. Or any movement.

 

And the guy in Spokane? White supremacy is a movement. Reminiscent of a bowel movement, but a movement just the same.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I did, and you dismissed my hypothesis because it sounded like "a potential excuse". Which is exactly what I'm trying to say.

 

He also wore a golf cap. Maybe all that time on the links led to him breathing in pesticides from our evil corporations thus rendering his thought process null?

 

I told you, the whole nanny state of this concussion thing in sports itself is out of control. Linking it to a terrorist attack was just a bit over the top. I'm all for thinking things out.....but yikes!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I do expect these actions to continue -- or at least the desire to attempt them. That's why it's necessary to take the fight to the enemy, not try to make nice and hope they stop attacking. The beast needs to be attacked and killed in its lair.

 

And there are a number of good theories as to why these people hate us so much, but again, I don't really care and I don't think it matters.

 

And we have come full circle.

 

Sorry, but TBPhD gets it.

 

It does matter, if you (not you nfreeman) ever want it to stop.

[wjag]

I see the outcomes of what Lanza and Tsarnaev did to be identical regardless of their motivations, political leanings and world views. I can't separate them in my mind.

[nfreeman]

And we have come full circle.

 

Sorry, but TBPhD gets it.

 

It does matter, if you (not you nfreeman) ever want it to stop.

 

There is no action or set of actions that the US could take that would cause it to stop.

[LastPommerFan]

These events cannot have a single cause. Very little in this world works that way. They are a culmination of many things. Taking one of them away likely prevents the event from occurring. Clearly, eliminating the idea of Jihad from human knowledge would cause many of these attacks to never have occurred. But this is impossible. You can't put an idea back in the can. White supremacy has been debunked in the US by the vast majority for decades. Those who are proponents of this hateful and violence inducing ideology are shunned by society at large. But the idea is still there. The killings are still there. But the "movement" doesn't get new members without other contributing factors. Kids are NOT born with this hate. Something happens in their life that drives them to it. Could be parents, could be friends, could be loss of a job, could be rejection from art school. We need to be open to all the contributing factors so that we can attempt to mitigate them individually. Yes, we continue to attack the ideology, that is of prime importance. But if our goal is to end this by containing an idea, we will be disappointed. Especially since the internet exists.

 

 

He also wore a golf cap. Maybe all that time on the links led to him breathing in pesticides from our evil corporations thus rendering his thought process null?

 

I told you, the whole nanny state of this concussion thing in sports itself is out of control. Linking it to a terrorist attack was just a bit over the top. I'm all for thinking things out.....but yikes!

 

We have such a fundamental disagreement about basic assumptions needed to have this argument that it is very likely impossible that we will ever convince each other. We are essentially arguing from different realities.

 

 

Edited to note that "kids are NOT born with this hate" terrible typo.

[nfreeman]

I see the outcomes of what Lanza and Tsarnaev did to be identical regardless of their motivations, political leanings and world views. I can't separate them in my mind.

 

Lanza doesn't have a host of buddies that went to training camp with him who are raring to duplicate his efforts.

[LastPommerFan]

There is no action or set of actions that the US could take that would cause it to stop.

 

It's not about stopping it. Public safety is always about mitigation.

 

Lanza doesn't have a host of buddies that went to training camp with him who are raring to duplicate his efforts.

 

No, but Wade Michael Page does.