Game of Thrones

[WildCard]

26 minutes ago, #freejame said:

That was literally laugh-out-loud bad

And they all lived happily ever after!

This was a season if NBC had written it. Felt like I just watched the ending to Grey's Anatomy

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I guess we're just ignoring Arya and the white horse from the previous episode and also now she's Magellan? 

There were plenty of things to like about the ending but... 

There are? I honestly can't think of one. 

[TrueBlueGED]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

And they all lived happily ever after!

This was a season if NBC had written it. Felt like I just watched the ending to Grey's Anatomy

There are? I honestly can't think of one. 

I'm not going to say I liked it, but these are the endings Martin has planned for the main characters. 

[bobs0108]

It was such a disappointment. No twists and they left nothing but questions. I would of been pissed if this was a season finally let alone the series of one of the best shows of all time. This past season put a bit of a sour taste on the whole series. 

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

And they all lived happily ever after!

This was a season if NBC had written it. Felt like I just watched the ending to Grey's Anatomy

There are? I honestly can't think of one. 

I liked Jon trying to do the right thing and still getting exiled. It fits his character that he would have to accept Justice. I like Bran as king. I like Sansa as QotN. 

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I guess we're just ignoring Arya and the white horse from the previous episode and also now she's Magellan? 

There were plenty of things to like about the ending but... 

Once they decided Jon would kill Dany and go back to the Night's Watch... they had nothing left for her. I don't understand the imagery of Ep5, unless it was just to throw off the audience

I liked the rest, although I couldn't get from Tyrion telling Jon he has to be King to Tryion telling everyone Bran should be King in 5 minutes.

Jon going to the Night's Watch was shocking. Don't see why Bran doesn't just pardon him after a year.

In the end, no one could see how they could wrap it all up in 13 episodes and that's what it looks like when you do. Clearly, they needed about 20 more episodes, but unfortunately, the cast and writers didn't have that kind of time.

7 minutes ago, bobs0108 said:

It was such a disappointment. No twists and they left nothing but questions. I would of been pissed if this was a season finally let alone the series of one of the best shows of all time. This past season put a bit of a sour taste on the whole series. 

Exactly. You saw Jon going to the Night's Watch. The hero of the show from damn near the beginning. You saw it all the way.

[French Collection]

Ghost is happy with this ending.

[SDS]

To steal a point from DC Tom over on the Bills side... Martin probably hasn't finished because he doesn't know how to satisfactorily get from point A to point B either.

[French Collection]

I liked how Sam brought up the idea of democracy and they all laughed at him. They later make a move towards it by adopting a vote of Lords process.

There are quite a few feel good moments that point towards a brighter future for Westeros, which we won't see.

[inkman]

Quote of the season? "We both love Dany, you much more successfully." 

[inkman]

 

[nfreeman]

I liked it.  It doesn’t make up for the shortcomings of the past couple of seasons but I thought it was a very solid ending. 

[Hoss]

While I think they failed in making the last two seasons shorter and this wasn’t the best they could’ve done, I’m mildly satisfied which I’m fine with.

They definitely got cold feet once the audience figured everything out, though. But most of the main complaints I’ve seen are easily dismissed.

”But what about Jon’s lineage, you spent this much time on his true identity and in the end it doesn’t matter.” Bro, did you not hear the literal dozens of references to it over the last two seasons and how it drove Dany to complete madness? It mattered. But then he killed the queen and paid the price.

”But what about Arya’s ability to wear anybody’s face, why didn’t they use that?” She ***** used it. She got revenge for the Red Wedding, maybe the most shocking scene in television history. Then she decided she no longer wanted to be faceless. She needed to be Arya Stark.

”But Bran can time travel, why doesn’t he do that and save everyone?” Because it doesn’t work like that and because he’s been warned several times that it’s dangerous. Oh, and he saw first hand how dangerous it can be when Hodor had a gigantic seizure.

[Neo]

Well done ....  Not Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, but not Seinfeld, either.  This was so large it couldn’t close.  If GoT taught us anything, it’s that every death is a birth and every answer a question.

Anybody else feel “comic moment” trepidation in light of the various situations in which they arose?   Edmure’s campaign speech, Sam imagining democracy only to illicit jeers AFTER a group comedic pause, brothels vs. ships .. 

[Huckleberry]

Besides jon becoming king, this was the ending everyone wanted.   Him going north of the wall with Tormund and Ghost.

Sansa is queen of the north , another ending most wanted.   

Tyrion still lives 

Dany died, drogon still flying around is an open question mark, he didn't kill jon because he was a targaryan ? 

And I still wonder how the ***** Grey Worm survived.

 

[inkman]

7 hours ago, Hoss said:

...she got revenge for the Red Wedding, maybe the most shocking scene in television history. Then she decided she no longer wanted to be faceless. She needed to be Arya Stark.

Personally I thought Ted Danson removing his hairpiece was a hit more shocking but maybe my Toupee radar needs adjusting. 

Also, the Red Wedding was still in the who the ***** are all these guys with similar names and beards period for me. So I wasn't invested in any of the characters at that point outside of the Stark girls and the Lannisters. 

[sabills]

I like most of it. But like every other episode this year, it still seemed rushed. If they had made this season 10 episodes that were a normal length like most of the seasons I think they could have done a much better job.

Of all the endings, the only one I really have an issue with is Arya. WTH did that come from?

[sabills]

Interesting Azor Ahai theory from /r/asoiaf

 

Quote

Jon Snow is Azor Ahai and the Prince *NOT the King* that was Promised

Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over.

Jon wanted to save the world from the dead. First, he united mankind against the White Walkers – Wildlings, the North, and Dany’s army. He plunged his army into the white walkers (ice a.k.a. water). But the Long Night was not over. The world was not saved; a great threat still held the world in its clutches. So at the head of his new army, he drove South.

The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered.

Cersei, the lion. Jon drove the new army he had united straight into the heart of the lion, but the world was not saved, for the peace shattered as Dany prepared to usher in a new age of war and conquest. The Long Night was just beginning.

The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes. Her blood, soul, strength, and courage went into the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer. Following this sacrifice, Lightbringer was as warm as Nissa Nissa had been in life.

Devastated, Jon knew what he had to do. He drew close his lover and asked her to bear her heart to him, her love. Then in despair, he stabbed his sword into her breast. Dany inspired thousands. Through all the inspiration that her blood, soul, strength and courage had poured into her conquest, her dream to break the wheel, he forged Lightbringer, the New Era of peace in the kingdom, freeing the world from the Long Night of war, death, and destruction.

Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust his sword through the belly of the beast its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks and its body burst into flame.”

Perhaps the Iron Throne was in fact the monster; it represented the Wheel. The system of rule by right of birth – the Iron Throne. And with Jon’s final thrust, and he caused Drogon to burn the Iron Throne, melting it away, and the old system with it. A new system of the kingdom choosing its ruler began, perhaps a new era of peace and prosperity.

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.

His story represents true heroism, total sacrifice for the greater good: giving up his family, his friends, his lovers, his own life, his claim to the throne, and his only reward was exile. Jon was the true Prince, the rightful heir to the throne, but he could not be King. He did, however, unite the world in the war for the dawn, saving mankind from the Long Night of destruction by Ice or by Fire. Jon Snow is Azor Ahai.

 

[darksabre]

17 minutes ago, sabills said:

Interesting Azor Ahai theory from /r/asoiaf

 

 

I mean, it basically has to be this. But I have to admit that not actually getting something we can point to as Lightbringer is super disappointing.

And where was Jon ever "born" of salt and smoke. Maybe when I re-watch I'll see it. But man, I don't know.

All in all, it could have been worse. It just also could have been better.

[Lanny]

10 hours ago, SDS said:

Jon going to the Night's Watch was shocking. Don't see why Bran doesn't just pardon him after a year.

I thought that too, or even a day after the Unsullied left. 

[TrueBlueGED]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I mean, it basically has to be this. But I have to admit that not actually getting something we can point to as Lightbringer is super disappointing.

And where was Jon ever "born" of salt and smoke. Maybe when I re-watch I'll see it. But man, I don't know.

All in all, it could have been worse. It just also could have been better.

Well, when he was murdered in the books, his wounds were described as smoking. But I tend to think of "birth" in the case of the prophecy in a more metaphorical sense. He was born by the ashes of King's Landing (smoke) and his tears (salt) while killing Dany. 

Overall I think the finale was "okay." Ultimately, once the decision was made to cap the show at 8 seasons and truncate the number of episodes for the final two, I think this was probably the best we could hope for.

11 hours ago, SDS said:

To steal a point from DC Tom over on the Bills side... Martin probably hasn't finished because he doesn't know how to satisfactorily get from point A to point B either.

This is a really good point, and if the last two books are any indication, his end product (should he ever finish) has a good chance of being just as messy and disjointed as the show's storytelling became. 

[josie]

I'm fine with it. I think expectations were tempered by the last season or so, so to be a little miffed/disappointed didn't feel as contrasted. 

Bran is your typical fantasy novel king. He has The Sight, he's just, he has no need for glory, pretty solid choice. In the books (god i hate even typing that but here I am) there's a lot of foreshadowing now that I think about it. You're reminded constantly he'll never be king because he's got older brothers... but you're also constantly told about his namesakes, Bran the Builder, Bran of the Bloody Blade, Bran the Breaker... Brandon is the OG Stark King name and is deeply steeped in the Old Gods and creation of the 7 kingdoms- great catalysts. (Saw someone on the twitters going on about how his name is so lackluster compared to "Aegon" or other Valyrian sounding names). 

But if you don't get his backstory and character building like you do in the books, I totally see why folks feel like he was shoved into the slot. They pretty much ignored him for a whole season or so and now the audience has little to no affinity for the guy, so it doesn't go down well. 

 

The more I think about it, there were lots of little details that peeve me. Ashes turn to snow, ok.. then... no snow. Sunny. Fine. Ok... Arya on the white horse, this gorgeous apocryphal moment... then NOWHERE in this episode. You even see her wandering around shell-shook, but no horse. And to think I had a tweet about her being Azor Ahai go modestly viral over that... for NOTHING! My internet points! Lot of clunks and awk to get to the final point. 

 

Also still mad how they did the Ironborn- my favs in the book. Violent (yet oddly progressive) Viking pirates, steeped in legend and magic. Asha... eh. Definitely not what I envisioned. But Euron.. he's this eldritch horror summoning wizard pirate demon, a great magician, terrifying, evil incarnate, an eyepatch covering a jet black magical eye, a strong beast of a man, a Kraken in human form... legitimately a final boss for any wannabe King or Queen. And we got fuccboi swagger Euron the sleezemuffin. Which is MUCH more what Theon was supposed to be like (pre Reek). 

 

And if you're gonna have my second favorite character of the whole thing, lovable big woman loving kissed by fire Tormund Giantsbane, a beastly man who loves Jon as a brother.... WHY DIDN'T HE HAVE ANY LINES? Meaningful looks? Just. Yup. There he be. Bah. 

 

Eh whatever. I wanna re-read the books now. I like delving into the GoT wiki. Lots of stuff there. It was a fun multiple year show, it was gorgeous, and I hope GRRM finishes that damn book soon. 

[sabills]

Here's what I would have done this season if I was writing it. Not sure its considerably better, but I think it sets some stuff up stronger while keeping to GRRM's ending.

So here’s what I think the main bullet points they would have gotten from GRRM that I need to  hit:

·        Dany burns KL

·        Arya kills the NK

·        Jon kills Dany

·        Bran becomes king

 

To pull off what I have here a couple things from the previous season have to change as well. First, Dany and Jon need to already be in love by the end of the second to last episode of season 7.

Then, the last episode of that season ends without Tyrion managing to "convince" Cersei to come north. She tells them exactly what she'll do; stay there and wait them out. This creates a real conflict between Jon and Dany, because now Dany argues that they need to take care of Cersei first at all costs since she’ll just stab them in the back as soon as they leave. Plus, the Night’s King’s armies are still beyond the wall; they can take care of Cersei quick enough and still get up there and save most people, while still preserving the kingdom. Meanwhile Jon wants them to go north and finish off the Night’s King to, you know, save the people. This can be presented in a way where we can see both sides.

So now the two are at a breaking point, and the only thing keeping them together is their love. Jon is considering leaving but won’t because of his love of Dany. But then, Bran and Sam show up to tell Jon that he’s a Targ. Now he feels weird about loving Dany, AND he needs to go north. The season ends with Jon telling Dany who he is, taking the Stark armies north to fight the WWs, and Dany watching him leave, but clearly feeling betrayed and pissed.

Jaime leaves Cersei in the same way. Bran actually STAYS with Dany/Tyrion, and does his creepy stuff down south instead of up north. He has some sort of vaguely BS reasoning for this. (I’ll be in the way, my knowledge is needed here, etc)

Next season starts not long after. Jon shows up in Winterfell, we get a bunch of the reunions we did in that first episode anyways. The Stark kids (minus Bran). Brienne and Jaime (we can get the knighting scene later in the episode). Theon and Sansa. Etc. The north, the Riverlands, the Vale are all prepping to fight the WWs. The wildlings are supposed to be coming in soon. Jon tells the Stark girls who he is. Some Sansa/Jon conflict.

Down south Dany is preparing to invade. She still needs to get up to Jon to help them (even though she's pissed at him, she still wants to save everyone) and doesn’t want to wait. Tyrion tries to convince her not to burn the city. We get the Rhaegal death. We watch her get closer and closer to the breaking point. Tyrion gets a letter from Sansa about Jon’s parentage. He tells Varys.

Next we watch a lot of the wildlings get slaughtered by the WWs. Separately we watch Last Hearth and a few other places get overrun. This enemy is terrifying and unstoppable. We really get to FEEL the power of this army.

Winterfell digs in to fight, but knows its probably hopeless. We’re led to feel like maybe Dany is coming to save them in the last minute, but the army is moving very quickly. Scouts reveal that the split armies are converging on Winterfell. They’re just outside. The NK overlooks winterfell on the back of his dragon and with his armies behind him. Then we get a shot of Bran with his eyes rolled back down south. He smirks a little. The NK looks a little miffed. Then takes off in his dragon and his armies turn south. They walk right passed Winterfell as the soldiers watch. Jon’s face goes from grim determination to terror. Jaime sees this, grabs a horse and takes off south as fast as possible. We see Clegane heading the same way.

Next down south Dany hears about the WWs. Now she’s really pressed for time and she’s down two dragons. She hears about Varys’s treason and kills him. Missande is captured, we get the last pleading with Cersei, and Missande’s death. Dany is now desperate and pissed off. She orders the invasion for the next morning.

The next episode is mostly the same as the invasion of Kings Landing this season. Tyrion begs Dany to spare the people if the bells ring. Clegane bowl, all that. Except Jaime gets to Cersei while she’s still in power. He sees the battle is lost, begs her to surrender. She doesn’t. He kills her, tells the guards to ring the bells. They do. Dany, distraught, afraid, betrayed, and maybe mad, burns the city anyways.

Next we watch a montage of the WWs moving south through the continent, destroying anything in their path, but not stopping to conquer. Down through the north, the neck, the riverlands. They pass Moat Calain and Harrenhal. Nice little montage of places we recognize with mounds of snow and dead people. Cute.

They arrive at night with the city still on fire. Now we get essentially the battle of Winterfell, but a little different. Dragon battle between Dany and the NK, in which she kills Viseryon but not the NK. All seems lost, then the North armies appear, and the battle is a LITTLE more even, but still not close. Mellisandre does some cool *****. Arya does some cool *****. Theon dies heroically. Jorah dies saving Dany. Jaime dies after some back to back fighting with Brienne, dying in her arms. Bran gets face to face with the NK, and then Arya kills him.

Battle end wrap up. Second to last episode. Barely see Dany this episode, but you feel her everywhere. Everyone learns what she did. There are a bunch of discussions about what to do about her. A little time to mourn for those lost. Bran tells them what he did, why the NK came after him, why he stayed there: so he could draw the NK south and combine the armies to stop him, one way or the other, and to get Arya there to kill him. We see a lot of what we saw at the beginning of the actual last episode in this one, with Unsullied killing Lannisters, maybe some other atrocities. We get the Tyrion/Jon talk.

Final episode is similar to the one we got. Dany talks crazy about freeing the world. Jon kills Dany. Bran gets the throne. Major plot points achieved. Jon goes north. Maybe we get some better info about what the Nights Watch will be now that the threats are both gone (wildings/WWs). Sort of a National Guard sort of thing maybe. The North STAYS part of the 7 Kingdoms, as Tyrion convinces Sansa that its essential, else the rest will split off not long after(if you think Dorne is waiting a year before leaving when the North is already gone, you're nuts). Arya gets some better story ending then whatever the hell that was. The end.

[WildCard]

 

[josie]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

 

I saw something where Emilia Clarke was saying that playing Dany was so important to her as she survived a couple of brain embolisms during the first season or two and she found strength in the character. And when she read the script as to what happens in the end with King's Landing and all she just totally lost it, so upset, asking her family if they'd hate her for it. 

[jad1]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Besides jon becoming king, this was the ending everyone wanted.   Him going north of the wall with Tormund and Ghost.

Sansa is queen of the north , another ending most wanted.   

Tyrion still lives 

Dany died, drogon still flying around is an open question mark, he didn't kill jon because he was a targaryan ? 

And I still wonder how the ***** Grey Worm survived.

 

Dragons have killed plenty of Targaryens, so the reason Drogon let Jon live is uncertain.

Further, Jon being a Targaryen had no impact on the show's plot at all.

Some claim it helped drive Dany to madness, but the last show explained Dany's actions as tactics, not madness.

She burned Kings Landing to show future foes that using innocents as shields will not prevent her from using her Dragon. Tywin Lannister would probably agree with this strategy.

And it can be further argued that listening to Tyrion's advice to avoid immediately attacking King's Landing in season 7 cost her 2 dragons.  At this point, she realizes that delay caused by mercy has cost her power.

Dany had also found her purpose as a liberator back in season 3.  So it makes sense that she would want to continue her crusade after winning the Iron Throne.

She's not mad, she's just determined and ruthless, like several other characters in the show.  Jon being a Targaryen doesn't change this.  In fact she willingly accepts Jon's killing embrace.

Which comes back to the purpose of Jon being a Targaryen.  There is none. It's like it was just thrown in there for (show) fan service.

By the way, Gendry had the best claim to the throne at the end of the show.  Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen were all Baretheons.  Even Cersi gets her claim from being married to Robert, and not from her being a Lannister.  When Dany legitimized Gendry as Robert's heir, he also gained a claim to the throne.

That the writers didn't even recognize this at the council scene shows how the quality the writing has declined as Dan and Dave have looked to move on from the show.