Game of Thrones

[qwksndmonster]

How EXACTLY am I asking for character perfection? I want the incredibly dangerous lords to be formidable. I don't want them to APPEAR formidable until the writers decide to discard them. It's pretty obvious that the writers do away with these formidable lords because they don't have the chops to write for smart characters.

 

Their intepretation of Stannis was much the same.

 

Roose Bolton thought Roose Bolton was smart, that's true, but he was never depicted as arrogant. You could say that the part he played in the red wedding was arrogant, that betraying the Starks in genral was arrogant, but that's such an amazing stretch. Roose Bolton's downfall had nothing to do with Roose and everything to do with Ramsay.

 

Speaking of the show minimizing the Red Wedding, anybody seen any Freys yet? Freys that aren't Fat Walda?

[qwksndmonster]

It's like you want character perfection. Half the message from Martin's characters is that everyone is flawed, everyone has some kind of weakness. Roose couldn't get to the point of even imagining Ramsay moving against him. Think of the books, Roose was the one person Ramsay would figuratively bow to at every turn. Ramsay stabbing him, to Roose, wouldn't even pass the sniff test.

There's so many things wrong with this post it makes me happy that my signature is what it is.  The bolded is the part that makes the least sense.  

 

Book Roose is a player in the game of thrones.

Book Roose is probably on the side of the others.

Book Roose almost definitely practices black magic of some sort.

Book Roose might be an immortal vampire.

Book Roose is loose.

Show Roose betrayed the North, making all loyal Stark men (y'know, most of the North) despise him. Then he betrayed the crown to win back the North lords by marrying Sansa to Ramsay.  So now he has.... no friends.

At least there's a Karstark there! And he hates Robb for killing his dad(?), Lord Karstark! And he hates Robb even more for being a kinslayer! Everybody knows about the blood ties between Stark and Karstark and how important it is to the Old Gods not to kinslay.  Oh.... he's down with Ramsay kinslaying?  Oh... the writers didn't even try to make this Karstark guy a character?

 

Oh... I'm thinking way harder about this show than the writers ever even tried to? 

[PalmTreeMafia]

I think some of you here may be demanding too much from this TV show/book series. It's basically 50 Shades of Gray for medieval high fantasy nerds. All of the characters are going to be hopelessly one-dimensional, motivated by nothing more than power or vague notions of honor and duty. If you want a Shakespearian drama, then read Shakespeare. If you want to see some titties and dragons :w00t: , then tune in to HBO Sunday nights at 9pm Eastern! Yeehaw!

[qwksndmonster]

I think some of you here may be demanding too much from this TV show/book series. It's basically 50 Shades of Gray for medieval high fantasy nerds. All of the characters are going to be hopelessly one-dimensional, motivated by nothing more than power or vague notions of honor and duty. If you want a Shakespearian drama, then read Shakespeare. If you want to see some titties and dragons :w00t: , then tune in to HBO Sunday nights at 9pm Eastern! Yeehaw!

I wonder why HBO sets the bar so low...

[TrueBlueGED]

Now I know how others feel when I post a wall of text. I'll offer my rebuttal...eventually :lol:

[inkman]

I wonder why HBO sets the bar so low...

You dont. You also desperately want the TV show to be the books, which its not. Having never read the books is quite liberating.

[qwksndmonster]

You dont. You also desperately want the TV show to be the books, which its not. Having never read the books is quite liberating.

I want the TV show to be good. I really don't need it to be the books. The fact that they keep adding parts that are in the books that make no sense in the show is salt in my wound.

 

There's a direct correlation between when the show goes off the rails and when they can't straight up copy George. I am mad that there's no writing talent to make up new awesome ASOIAF stuff for me to enjoy. I want the show to do honor to the books. I'm fine with it being a bard's tale where the specifics are different and many of the details didn't make it in. But it still has to be good. And it's not.

 

And saying that I just want it to be the books makes it sound like I hate the show on principle, which I don't. I hate it because I watch it and it doesn't pass the eye test.

[PalmTreeMafia]

I wonder why HBO sets the bar so low...

 

$$$$, of course!

 

You should check out The Wire (if you haven't already): engaging plots, intricate character development, had something meaningful to say about the nature of man and society....not surprisingly, it did fairly poorly during its original HBO run and is only recently receiving its proper accolades. Didn't have enough sexual titillation and CGI eye candy, apparently.

 

But on a less cynical note, I still think Game of Thrones is very entertaining and worth watching every Sunday night. It will be interesting to see what role Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Tyrion play in the ending.

[qwksndmonster]

You're an , McNulty.

 

The did I do?

[inkman]

$$$$, of course!

 

You should check out The Wire (if you haven't already): engaging plots, intricate character development, had something meaningful to say about the nature of man and society....not surprisingly, it did fairly poorly during its original HBO run and is only recently receiving its proper accolades. Didn't have enough sexual titillation and CGI eye candy, apparently.

 

But on a less cynical note, I still think Game of Thrones is very entertaining and worth watching every Sunday night. It will be interesting to see what role Daenerys, Jon Snow, and Tyrion play in the ending.

The Wire was some real gut punching nasty awesome stuff. I don't know how closely it resembled reality but from the limited window I have into drugs, gangs and violence they looked like they nailed it.

[qwksndmonster]

You dont. You also desperately want the TV show to be the books, which its not. Having never read the books is quite liberating.

My first response wasn't totally correct. In some ways, I do just want the show to be like the books. But that's because the first three seasons of the show were (nearly) exactly like the books. Even better, in some ways, because we got to hear conversations between Varys and Littlefinger that no POV from the books would ever get to hear. Now that things are going off the rails, I'm mad at the show for not following its own damn rules!

 

Roose Bolton could've been killed by Ramsay and it could've totally worked. But they would have to set it up, and it would need to be consistent with the Roose Bolton we saw in the first 3 seasons who carefully plotted the destruction of Robb Stark from about 3 paces away.

 

Roose's arrogance isn't a flaw because nothing ever went wrong for him. Jaime's arrogance is a flaw and it constantly over his life, like being arrogant enough to father Robert's heirs.

 

Ramsay is just about the craziest person in the whole show. He's a psychopath, he's cruel, treacherous, extreme, rash, and hyper competent.

 

For Roose to have not expected treachery after the birth of his trueborn son is silly. He spent months in Robb Stark's camp taking care with every single moment of his life to not tip his hand. Watching every single soldier and washer woman, wondering if they're a spy sent to suss him out. Sending secret messages to the Lannisters, wondering if the rider he sent will be taken or the bird he sent will be shot down. This is the guy that wasn't suspecting Ramsay von Hitler Satan?

 

I don't buy it. Because the show didn't show me.

[Huckleberry]

You dont. You also desperately want the TV show to be the books, which its not. Having never read the books is quite liberating.

 

Thank god I'm to lazy to read books :D

I don't think Theon will be the heir to the iron islands. I think Asha will lose to her uncle and then take Theon and be the shows version of Victerion

 

I think he is now the typical Ironborn leader, has known more hardship than any other.

[dudacek]

I watch but I find myself watching with a sense that the show may now be ruining my enjoyment of the books — tipping plot developments in a much more clumsy fashion.

Do I expect Jon to be reborn? Absolutely. But not in a way that makes the death seem convenient, manipulative, or irrelevant to the plot.

Doran's dead? Same. Stannis dead? Same. Brienne finding Sansa? Same.

[LGR4GM]

I've enjoyed this season a lot. As for the Jon thing, my friends and I have been speculating about exactly that happening since the book ended. 

[sabills]

I might have talked about this here before, but I still like the idea that when the Red Priests bring someone back they really only bring back the body. The flesh is there, with the memories still in its brain, it believes it is the person it was, but the soul has moved on (and maybe something else moved in). The old "he came back, but he came back wrong" thing. This would explain a couple things about previous resurrections, and it also would leave the door open for the "Jon warged into Ghost" theory to be true. As he died, he warged his soul/mind into Ghost, but then Mel brings his body back. He'd be trapped in Ghost until eventually learning how to warg on command like Bran (and Arya) have, so that he could take his body back. 

 

IDK if that's what will happen, in the show OR the books, but I think it would be a cool twist on the simple res. theory.

[qwksndmonster]

I might have talked about this here before, but I still like the idea that when the Red Priests bring someone back they really only bring back the body. The flesh is there, with the memories still in its brain, it believes it is the person it was, but the soul has moved on (and maybe something else moved in). The old "he came back, but he came back wrong" thing. This would explain a couple things about previous resurrections, and it also would leave the door open for the "Jon warged into Ghost" theory to be true. As he died, he warged his soul/mind into Ghost, but then Mel brings his body back. He'd be trapped in Ghost until eventually learning how to warg on command like Bran (and Arya) have, so that he could take his body back. 

 

IDK if that's what will happen, in the show OR the books, but I think it would be a cool twist on the simple res. theory.

I like to think that Beric Dondarrion was brought back by R'hollor, but Jon Snow's resurrection is more of an Old Gods type deal.  Maybe Jon's soul will have merged with Ghost's a bit in the time that he was dead.  Maybe he'll be less reserved and more violent/aggressive.  Tyrion's trial and then slaying his father and lover ended up having no effect on his character whatsoever, he's walking around like season 2 Tyrion.  It would be an awful shame if they don't use Jon's death to develop his character.  At least it's helped Melly Dre's arc.

[nfreeman]

I might have talked about this here before, but I still like the idea that when the Red Priests bring someone back they really only bring back the body. The flesh is there, with the memories still in its brain, it believes it is the person it was, but the soul has moved on (and maybe something else moved in). The old "he came back, but he came back wrong" thing. This would explain a couple things about previous resurrections, and it also would leave the door open for the "Jon warged into Ghost" theory to be true. As he died, he warged his soul/mind into Ghost, but then Mel brings his body back. He'd be trapped in Ghost until eventually learning how to warg on command like Bran (and Arya) have, so that he could take his body back. 

 

IDK if that's what will happen, in the show OR the books, but I think it would be a cool twist on the simple res. theory.

 

But this didn't really happen with Beric Dondarrion, did it?  He came back pretty much the same, albeit still bearing the physical wounds of whatever killed him pre-resurrection.

 

I like to think that Beric Dondarrion was brought back by R'hollor, but Jon Snow's resurrection is more of an Old Gods type deal.  Maybe Jon's soul will have merged with Ghost's a bit in the time that he was dead.  Maybe he'll be less reserved and more violent/aggressive.  Tyrion's trial and then slaying his father and lover ended up having no effect on his character whatsoever, he's walking around like season 2 Tyrion.  It would be an awful shame if they don't use Jon's death to develop his character.  At least it's helped Melly Dre's arc.

 

Melisandre has a number of strong qualities, but she's not an Old Gods kinda gal. 

 

I think the father-trying-to-have-him-killed, girlfriend-betrayal, champion-getting-head-smushed, fleeing-into-exile series of events did make Tyrion a bit sadder and darker.

 

As for Jon Snow, I think there might be a bit of the "kill the boy so the man can rule" coming, but that's just a guess.

[qwksndmonster]

Melisandre has a number of strong qualities, but she's not an Old Gods kinda gal. 

But Jon Snow didn't come back right away, he's likely a warg, and was probably in ghost.  Melly Dre lost her faith in R'hollor and Davos said " the gods, just do it." There's a lot of wiggle room there.

 

I think the father-trying-to-have-him-killed, girlfriend-betrayal, champion-getting-head-smushed, fleeing-into-exile series of events did make Tyrion a bit sadder and darker.

Maybe last season when he was at Daznak's pit telling Hizdar that there's already too much violence in the world.  All we've got this season are jokes and "look at how cool he is!" scenes.

 

 

One thing that really bothered me about the Meereen scenes was that Tyrion asked Missandei if the dragons liked her.  I was assuming this was because he was enlisting Missandei's help, but no, the writers got that silly woman out of the frame so manly Tyrion can do stuff.  Apparently he was just asking Missandei to find out if Dany's dragons can differentiate between friend and stranger, which seems like something he should probably know considering the goldmine of dragon knowledge he displayed.  So upon finding out that yes, the dragons can differentiate and Missandei is indeed a dragonfriend, Tyrion decides that going to meet the dragons alone without her around was the best possible course of action.

 

Maybe Tyrion didn't want her to get hurt? That'd be even worse. Missandei is brave, and would want to help. She's not some shrieking violet to be protected by Tyrion (like she already was at Daznak's pit).

 

I do like that Tyrion's entire plan is "Have you considered talking to the dragons?"

[TrueBlueGED]

So close to a definitive answer, yet so far away. In any event, Jon is taking the wildlings to war, right?

[qwksndmonster]

Uggghhh. What a bad episode.

 

What happened the Northron culture? Apparently nobody thinks kinslaying is taboo, and the LC of the Night's Watch is allowed to name his successor.

 

I like to think that the Umbers killed some other big wolf and this is a ruse.

 

Dany's scene was boring and accomplished nothing.

 

Sam and Gilly didn't really accomplish much. Gilly is a delight to see, though. Love that actress.

 

The Tower of Joy scene was so lackluster. It didn't feel hyper important, and Bran is still whining about the same stuff.

 

I don't think I've been so offended by an episode since the whole Sansa ordeal.

[TrueBlueGED]

Uggghhh. What a bad episode.

 

What happened the Northron culture? Apparently nobody thinks kinslaying is taboo, and the LC of the Night's Watch is allowed to name his successor.

 

I like to think that the Umbers killed some other big wolf and this is a ruse.

 

Dany's scene was boring and accomplished nothing.

 

Sam and Gilly didn't really accomplish much. Gilly is a delight to see, though. Love that actress.

 

The Tower of Joy scene was so lackluster. It didn't feel hyper important, and Bran is still whining about the same stuff.

 

I don't think I've been so offended by an episode since the whole Sansa ordeal.

 

Surely you can find a better way to spend an hour each week than watching something you hate.

 

Never mind, you're a Buffalo sports fan, after all :p

[qwksndmonster]

Surely you can find a better way to spend an hour each week than watching something you hate.

 

Never mind, you're a Buffalo sports fan, after all :p

And spend countless hours recording and editing audio for a podcast (that is still coming) about a show I hate. I hate it that much.

[Huckleberry]

Uggghhh. What a bad episode.

 

What happened the Northron culture? Apparently nobody thinks kinslaying is taboo, and the LC of the Night's Watch is allowed to name his successor.

 

I like to think that the Umbers killed some other big wolf and this is a ruse.

 

Dany's scene was boring and accomplished nothing.

 

Sam and Gilly didn't really accomplish much. Gilly is a delight to see, though. Love that actress.

 

The Tower of Joy scene was so lackluster. It didn't feel hyper important, and Bran is still whining about the same stuff.

 

I don't think I've been so offended by an episode since the whole Sansa ordeal.

 

I think rickon is dead next episode.    Thank god I never read the books and reach your level of hate towards the show :D

[sabills]

I like to think that Beric Dondarrion was brought back by R'hollor, but Jon Snow's resurrection is more of an Old Gods type deal.  Maybe Jon's soul will have merged with Ghost's a bit in the time that he was dead.  Maybe he'll be less reserved and more violent/aggressive.  Tyrion's trial and then slaying his father and lover ended up having no effect on his character whatsoever, he's walking around like season 2 Tyrion.  It would be an awful shame if they don't use Jon's death to develop his character.  At least it's helped Melly Dre's arc.

I'm pretty sure there are no Old Gods. The children don't talk about them. I think, instead of praying to the trees, the Children just used them as a communication device/oracle type thing, and the First Men just interpreted it wrong. Maybe its the ancestors of the CotF who they are talking to as Bran is trying to talk to his dad, but still, they're not really gods.

 

But this didn't really happen with Beric Dondarrion, did it?  He came back pretty much the same, albeit still bearing the physical wounds of whatever killed him pre-resurrection.

 

 

Melisandre has a number of strong qualities, but she's not an Old Gods kinda gal. 

 

I think the father-trying-to-have-him-killed, girlfriend-betrayal, champion-getting-head-smushed, fleeing-into-exile series of events did make Tyrion a bit sadder and darker.

 

As for Jon Snow, I think there might be a bit of the "kill the boy so the man can rule" coming, but that's just a guess.

Mostly the same, but he said each time he did it he felt hollower, or something like that.

Lady Stoneheart was an ice-cold bitch, too. Maybe thats just anger and revenge, but LS is very different from Catleyn

 

 

Uggghhh. What a bad episode.

 

What happened the Northron culture? Apparently nobody thinks kinslaying is taboo, and the LC of the Night's Watch is allowed to name his successor.

 

I like to think that the Umbers killed some other big wolf and this is a ruse.

 

Dany's scene was boring and accomplished nothing.

 

Sam and Gilly didn't really accomplish much. Gilly is a delight to see, though. Love that actress.

 

The Tower of Joy scene was so lackluster. It didn't feel hyper important, and Bran is still whining about the same stuff.

 

I don't think I've been so offended by an episode since the whole Sansa ordeal.

God, they couldn't even get a third actor for the "They were seven, facing three..." part? That is the best passage in all the books for my money, they could have just word for worded it and it would have been perfect. Dumb.

Edited May 10, 2016 by sabills

[K-9]

Great episode tonight.

 

I now await to have my joy of the episode snuffed out.