Darcy Regier, do you trust him with the rebuild?

[deluca67]

That whole offseason was a cluster-######. So much so you have to think some stuff was going on behind the scenes. I just don't think anyone trades a 23 year old 80+ point scorer for 4 late 1sts

Don't you think the 23 year old with the 80+ points should have been a higher priority? You don't leave an asset like that vulnerable. The Oilers screwed the Sabres big time and the Sabres deserved to be screwed. Regier deserved to be screwed.

[tom webster]

Don't you think the 23 year old with the 80+ points should have been a higher priority? You don't leave an asset like that vulnerable. The Oilers screwed the Sabres big time and the Sabres deserved to be screwed. Regier deserved to be screwed.

 

I said it back then and I'll say it again, the minute Nathan Horton signed his deal(about 2 weeks before free agency), Vanek should have been signed and this whole discussion is mute.

[Taro T]

Anyone hear Darcy on WGR earlier today?

 

He feels there are five to seven players at the top of draft that can be true difference makers.

 

Wants to rebuild a foundation of the team and then add free agents to supplement it.

 

Also brought up a draft mistake his first year. They had targeted a player in the draft, but rumors of Hasek retiring shifted their thinking to Mika Nornonen as a replacement for Hasek. The original target was Brenden Morrow.

 

He brought this up to discuss the importance of having depth at all positions.

Wonder how they would have managed to pussify him?

[SDS]

That whole offseason was a cluster-######. So much so you have to think some stuff was going on behind the scenes. I just don't think anyone trades a 23 year old 80+ point scorer for 4 late 1sts

 

Late 1sts???

[Trettioåtta]

Late 1sts???

 

I think you presume if a team that went to the finals the previous year gets a top 5 forward in the game, then that will increase their performance to a playoff team. So when trying to decide the value of the pick you don't think hrmmm that is 4 1st overalls, you think hrmmm that is 4 playoff team 1st rounders

[JJFIVEOH]

The "solid moves" have taken place on paper only. On the ice they have not worked at all.

 

Darcy built this mess. He's accountable for the results.

 

Enlighten me on these moves that haven't worked out in the post-Golisano era.

 

How about keeping the discussion on the topic?

 

Post Golisano Regier was mentioned. IMO, the post Golisano era has been the most disappointing of the Regier Regime. For years all we heard was how Regier could be a great GM if the shackles were removed, Quinn was gone and he had resources to compete with the big boys. Here we are, circumstances have been laid out perfectly for Regier, what do we have to show for it? One of the worst teams in the NHL.

 

And as I have mentioned, the problems with this team are the players that were acquired in the pre-Pegula era.

[SDS]

I think you presume if a team that went to the finals the previous year gets a top 5 forward in the game, then that will increase their performance to a playoff team. So when trying to decide the value of the pick you don't think hrmmm that is 4 1st overalls, you think hrmmm that is 4 playoff team 1st rounders

 

They were the 8th seed that went on a lucky run.

[ExWNYer]

In a word...no. Personally, I was disappointed when Darcy wasn't dumped along with Lindy. He's made some good trades but his teams are never greater than the sum of their parts. It's time to move on and move in a different direction.

[Robviously]

In a word...no. Personally, I was disappointed when Darcy wasn't dumped along with Lindy. He's made some good trades but his teams are never greater than the sum of their parts. It's time to move on and move in a different direction.

The teams consistently being less than the sum of their parts is a tremendous point.

[qwksndmonster]

Enlighten me on these moves that haven't worked out in the post-Golisano era.

 

And as I have mentioned, the problems with this team are the players that were acquired in the pre-Pegula era.

All of the moves haven't worked out, because the team sucks. That was the gist of freeman saying that they only looked good on paper. Yeah, Ehrhoff is a great D-man and I have a raging mancrush on Villeino, but the team has been terrible. Darcy is accountable for the product on the ice, regardless of when the players that are on the team were acquired.

[Andrew Amerk]

 

What has he done that is deserving of having the interim tag removed? There is a huge pool of coaching candidates available every year, and I'm sure a lot of them have more impressive resume's than Rolston's which consists of coaching teenagers(head coaching experience) prior to coming to Rochester.

 

Ruff: 6-10-1 (.76 pts/gm)

 

Roston: 9-7-5 (1.1 pts/gm)

 

In a statistical sense, Rollie's pace would have had us in 6th or 7th place right now.

 

Not to mention, most of Ruffs version was NHL players, and much of Rolstons team has been an infusion of AHLers (Flynn, Porter, Pardy, Pysyk, Adam, etc). He has a team that just lost 3 vets on a 2 game winning streak, beating the 1st and 5th place teams, with a ragtag roster missing its top scorer.

 

You mention resumes as being important. Ruff has a nice résumé of NHL coaching experience. So what.

 

If this is a team that is rebuilding, and all of Rolstons experience is dealing with younger players, then he seems the perfect fit for that scenario.

 

So, what's the problem with Rolston staying?

[JJFIVEOH]

All of the moves haven't worked out, because the team sucks. That was the gist of freeman saying that they only looked good on paper. Yeah, Ehrhoff is a great D-man and I have a raging mancrush on Villeino, but the team has been terrible. Darcy is accountable for the product on the ice, regardless of when the players that are on the team were acquired.

 

The team isn't bad because of what Darcy has done since Pegula took over. The team is bad because of what Darcy had to do pre-Pegula. Your logic is no different than me telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about based on your last post while your previous 1549 posts mean nothing.

 

It's really quite simple. Darcy has been scrutinzed because of a core that he needed to put together without the benefit of free reign. Unfortuntely for him, and all of us, that core ran too deep to be corrected when a new owner came along. In terms of trades and FA signings, nobody has yet to convince me that Dary hasn't much wrong post-Golisano.

 

Now, I'm not even sure I want Darcy to be in charge of a rebuild only because of the fact I'm already sick and tired of hearing the whiners blame him for everything including why my toast was burnt this morning. Because no matter what happens Dacry will be lambasted until the day he is fired. If we get to the conference finals next year, 49% will bitch we didn't win the whole thing, 49% will bitch we didn't strive to finish last to get a good draft spot. The other 2% will bitch that it was his fault their car wouldn't start.

[TrueBlueGED]

Ruff: 6-10-1 (.76 pts/gm)

 

Roston: 9-7-5 (1.1 pts/gm)

 

In a statistical sense, Rollie's pace would have had us in 6th or 7th place right now.

 

Not to mention, most of Ruffs version was NHL players, and much of Rolstons team has been an infusion of AHLers (Flynn, Porter, Pardy, Pysyk, Adam, etc). He has a team that just lost 3 vets on a 2 game winning streak, beating the 1st and 5th place teams, with a ragtag roster missing its top scorer.

 

You mention resumes as being important. Ruff has a nice résumé of NHL coaching experience. So what.

 

If this is a team that is rebuilding, and all of Rolstons experience is dealing with younger players, then he seems the perfect fit for that scenario.

 

So, what's the problem with Rolston staying?

 

Despite that, the Sabres place in the standings is unlikely to be significantly improved once everyone plays their games in hand. What good is a slightly improved points-rate if it doesn't improve the bottom line in the standings? Improvement relative to the competition should be the measuring stick, not improvement relative to Ruff.

 

The team isn't bad because of what Darcy has done since Pegula took over. The team is bad because of what Darcy had to do pre-Pegula. Your logic is no different than me telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about based on your last post while your previous 1549 posts mean nothing.

 

What's your timeline then? How long does it take the stain of the Golisano regime to wash out and judge Darcy strictly on what he's done post-Pegula? It's been 2.5 years and there has been significant roster turnover already. Another two years? Three? I'm legitimately curious at what point Regier is responsible for the team's results.

[Andrew Amerk]

 

 

Despite that, the Sabres place in the standings is unlikely to be significantly improved once everyone plays their games in hand. What good is a slightly improved points-rate if it doesn't improve the bottom line in the standings? Improvement relative to the competition should be the measuring stick, not improvement relative to Ruff

 

Even if those teams won those games in hand, Sabres would still be in 7th if Rolstons pts/ gm ratio remained true for the entire season. Maybe even higher without 2 of our losses to the Laffs.

[JJFIVEOH]

Despite that, the Sabres place in the standings is unlikely to be significantly improved once everyone plays their games in hand. What good is a slightly improved points-rate if it doesn't improve the bottom line in the standings? Improvement relative to the competition should be the measuring stick, not improvement relative to Ruff.

 

 

 

What's your timeline then? How long does it take the stain of the Golisano regime to wash out and judge Darcy strictly on what he's done post-Pegula? It's been 2.5 years and there has been significant roster turnover already. Another two years? Three? I'm legitimately curious at what point Regier is responsible for the team's results.

 

There has been a pretty good turnover and in my opinion it has eliminated the initial step in terms of a rebuild. A total rebuild would consist of ridding the team of everything you have and starting from scratch. I've been watching the Panthers rebuild, they went from scratch to the point where the following year after Tallon took over there were 17 new names on the opening day roster. They had six picks in the first two rounds in 2010. They're just now getting all there picks brought up. In my opinion the Sabbres are well ahead of that already because they have a pretty strong wave of players who have come up. I think they may be able to avoid a complete turn-around. I'm not saying it's going to be pretty, but I don't think it will take 3-4 years like the Panthers. They have enough picks to do some damage in the next year or two. Maybe a couple of well places trades could move them up and get another early first round pick. I think if you build around Ott and Vanek that this team can contend for a playoff spot in two years. Pick up a couple of veteran free agents here and there......... I'm not convinced that a GM holds sole responsibility of draft picks, there are many people involved in the decision making. I think if there isn't a trend of steady improvement in two years then it might be time to think about firiing Darcy and bring in somebody who will make the necessary moves to improve the roster before the new "core" becomes tarnished.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't mean Ott and Vanek should be the only two players Darcy keeps, I was implying those are the two vets he should keep to build around. I think if he can convince Ott and Vanek that it won't take more than a year or two that they might consider re-signing.

[qwksndmonster]

The team isn't bad because of what Darcy has done since Pegula took over. The team is bad because of what Darcy had to do pre-Pegula. Your logic is no different than me telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about based on your last post while your previous 1549 posts mean nothing.

This doesn't make sense. Darcy has the power to change the roster and hasn't. He has stood pat and the Sabres have suffered for it. The team is bad because of what Darcy HASN'T done since Pegs took over.

[JJFIVEOH]

This doesn't make sense. Darcy has the power to change the roster and hasn't. He has stood pat and the Sabres have suffered for it. The team is bad because of what Darcy HASN'T done since Pegs took over.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[deluca67]

All of the moves haven't worked out, because the team sucks. That was the gist of freeman saying that they only looked good on paper. Yeah, Ehrhoff is a great D-man and I have a raging mancrush on Villeino, but the team has been terrible. Darcy is accountable for the product on the ice, regardless of when the players that are on the team were acquired.

Ehrhoff has made $35 million over the past three seasons and Leino has made $25 mil. Leino has been a disaster and Ehrhoff has been good, just not $35 mil good. When you shell out $60 mil you need difference makes, neither qualify as difference makers.

 

This doesn't make sense. Darcy has the power to change the roster and hasn't. He has stood pat and the Sabres have suffered for it. The team is bad because of what Darcy HASN'T done since Pegs took over.

Give this poster a prize. Regier has had the time and resources to make over this roster. He is responsible for the roster, any pre-Pegula player that remains on the roster is here because Regier wants them here. There are no more excuses for Regier, this is his team and his roster and his results.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Give this poster a prize. Regier has had the time and resources to make over this roster. He is responsible for the roster, any pre-Pegula player that remains on the roster is here because Regier wants them here. There are no more excuses for Regier, this is his team and his roster and his results.

 

Truth is, very few pre-Pegula players remain, especially of the "core". Gone ... Connolly, Pominville, Goose, Roy, Leopold, Cody Mc ...

 

I suspect others will be gone soon too.

 

I do agree, though, that the roster is Regier's and he is responsible for the results.

 

I still say he needs to go and, IMO, will be gone before the draft.

[nfreeman]

I think you presume if a team that went to the finals the previous year gets a top 5 forward in the game, then that will increase their performance to a playoff team. So when trying to decide the value of the pick you don't think hrmmm that is 4 1st overalls, you think hrmmm that is 4 playoff team 1st rounders

 

Only if a young Vanek's presence would've convinced Mrs. Pronger to like Edmonton.

 

Also, Vanek is about as close to being a "top 5 forward in the game" as the Sabres are to being the #1 seed in the EC.

 

Enlighten me on these moves that haven't worked out in the post-Golisano era. And as I have mentioned, the problems with this team are the players that were acquired in the pre-Pegula era.

 

Are you joking?

 

Here are some terrible post-TP moves:

 

1. Leino -- there is the injury excuse this year, which is legit, but he was completely ineffective last year. I grade him out as incomplete, but that's giving him the benefit of the doubt, and most here and league-wide view him as a major bust.

 

2. Stafford's contract extension -- just a disaster. He's a career underachiever who had the classic contract year and DR lapped it right up and gave him a fat extension, after which he immediately went back into the tank.

 

3. Burning a year of the Sabres' rights in Griggy before he hits free agency, which seems fairly likely to have been a negligent mistake.

 

4. Sitting on his hands for from November through January of last year while the Sabres delivered one lifeless performance after another and the season went down the tube, so that by the time they awakened it was too late.

 

5. Bringing a team to camp this year with a major deficiency at center, in reliance on a 160-pound smurf with almost no experience at center to be the #2 center and an 18-year-old to be the #3 center.

 

6. Myers' extension -- I'm still optimistic that Myers is going to be a great player, so that this extension will turn out to be a good move, but it sure doesn't look that way right now. In any case the contract makes Myers untradeable at the moment, which hurts the flexibility of a team in rebuild mode.

 

7. The biggest one: not making the necessary moves to create a team that isn't a disaster. E.g. we'll never know whether DR was in the mix on the Mike Richards trade, but that was an opportunity to add exactly what the Sabres have been dying for. And there are a million other moves that didn't happen. It's pointless to say what he could've done and couldn't have done, but we know with 100% certainty that he didn't do enough -- because the team stinks.

[JJFIVEOH]

Are you joking?

I asked a simple question, no need to come back with a snide comment.

Here are some terrible post-TP moves:

 

1. Leino -- there is the injury excuse this year, which is legit, but he was completely ineffective last year. I grade him out as incomplete, but that's giving him the benefit of the doubt, and most here and league-wide view him as a major bust.

And what did most here and people league-wide say when they signed him? Most in the league considered it the best find and best signing of the day. It's not Darcy fault he regressed under Lindy like many do.

2. Stafford's contract extension -- just a disaster. He's a career underachiever who had the classic contract year and DR lapped it right up and gave him a fat extension, after which he immediately went back into the tank.

He was a free agent, what was he supposed to do? Trade away his rights without a contract and get in return pretty much what we could get for him now?

3. Burning a year of the Sabres' rights in Griggy before he hits free agency, which seems fairly likely to have been a negligent mistake.

Really?

4. Sitting on his hands for from November through January of last year while the Sabres delivered one lifeless performance after another and the season went down the tube, so that by the time they awakened it was too late.

Good point, what team wouldn't want to trade with BFLO when half the guys available couldn't pass a physical.

5. Bringing a team to camp this year with a major deficiency at center, in reliance on a 160-pound smurf with almost no experience at center to be the #2 center and an 18-year-old to be the #3 center.

He set it up to draft two centers and prepare for the future just like everybody wanted. You and I both know the asking price was way too high to bring in a stud center. He could have blown draft picks to get one and then you'd be here bitching that we still weren't going to make the playoffs and now be short on draft picks, all while said center wants out of town to be on a winner.

6. Myers' extension -- I'm still optimistic that Myers is going to be a great player, so that this extension will turn out to be a good move, but it sure doesn't look that way right now. In any case the contract makes Myers untradeable at the moment, which hurts the flexibility of a team in rebuild mode.

I agree, it's a little much. I've lost patience with him, he could still be worth building around. I still think he is easily tradeable.

7. The biggest one: not making the necessary moves to create a team that isn't a disaster. E.g. we'll never know whether DR was in the mix on the Mike Richards trade, but that was an opportunity to add exactly what the Sabres have been dying for. And there are a million other moves that didn't happen. It's pointless to say what he could've done and couldn't have done, but we know with 100% certainty that he didn't do enough -- because the team stinks.

Again, I'll go back to my point that the problem is the regression of players pre-Pegula. This is dependent on the fact you agree with my previous points. If you can't see that the Gaustad trade, Ott trade, P-ville trade and Hodgson trade were all solid moves then I don't know what more to say.

[IKnowPhysics]

Here are some terrible post-TP moves:

1. Hindsight. Gambled on him being the 2nd best free agent center available. Projection at center didn't work out, rest of his game still might. He's looked good in the eight games he's played this year, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

2. Hindsight. Underperformance of a 30 goal scorer. I'd like him traded more than anybody, but the blame I assign goes on the player.

 

3. Meh, no big deal. If the CBA wasn't scribbled on a bar napkin at the time, maybe the league's GMs c/would've known the rules. Lamiorello did the same thing.

 

4. Hindsight. Plus, the trade market isn't what it should be during those months- return value goes up at the deadline.

 

5. Hindsight with a dash of player undervaluing mixed in. Ennis is 3rd on the team in points, on pace for similar stats as last year at wing. Lack of defensively-capable 3rd line center is probably the most legitimate GM complaint on this list.

 

6. Hindsight. Underperformance of a Calder Cup winner. Myers will (and is) getting better. Interesting that the optimism flows through the length of the contract to maintain performance value but stops at trade value.

 

7. Hindsight and/or pointless.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think the whole "hindsight is 20/20" is a viable defense of Regier, because if it is then it can be used in perpetuity--nothing can ever be his fault as long as it's a good idea at the time. We're all judged with the benefit of hindsight. If I come up with a brilliant theory about politics, which everyone agrees is great, and then I test it and the data doesn't support it, guess what? An academic journal isn't going to publish me and help my career just because at the time it seemed to be right--it needs to turn out to be right.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

All I know is that since Pegula has been here, the Sabres have spent up to 97% of the cap on average, Thrown in another $25 million in bonus payments over the cap, burried millions of dollars in the minors or overseas......and with all those extra resources, still will have managed in 3 years to play a little over 1 week's worth of playoff games.

 

Seems pretty obvious to me what the verdict should be.

[JJFIVEOH]

I don't think the whole "hindsight is 20/20" is a viable defense of Regier, because if it is then it can be used in perpetuity--nothing can ever be his fault as long as it's a good idea at the time. We're all judged with the benefit of hindsight. If I come up with a brilliant theory about politics, which everyone agrees is great, and then I test it and the data doesn't support it, guess what? An academic journal isn't going to publish me and help my career just because at the time it seemed to be right--it needs to turn out to be right.

 

Hindsight isn't a defense of Regier, in most cases on this board it is used as a basis for a contrarian argument.