TrueBlueGED Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I think Brennan is going to do fine in Fla. how can any armchair hockey fan judge a guy with any sort of accuracy in less than 2 dozen games. Can't be done. So basically, you judged he was going to do fine in Florida, then proceeded to say armchair hockey fans can't judge him yet. Well done.
Ross Rhea Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 So basically, you judged he was going to do fine in Florida, then proceeded to say armchair hockey fans can't judge him yet. Well done. Yep I did. Fine, as a serviceable top 6 dman, whereas you seem to have predisposed him as a career AHLer, after 20 games. But i digress, you and a few others around here seem to think you know everything about everything and will not hesitate to let everyone know that. Whatever though, it's all good. I do what I do and you do what you do.
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It's evidence directly correlated to the topic at at hand. It's easy for some fans to excuse away an entire draft where the Sabres come away empty handed. And taking a close look at other Sabres drafts it's easy to see why they are where they are now. 2005 - All they have from that draft is Gerbe and he's not much of a difference maker. 2006 - Mike Weber, a #6 or #7 defenseman. Jonas Enroth - a goalie the Sabres are afraid to play. 2007 - Nothing. 2008 - Tyler Myers, his stalled development is killing the Sabres. Tyler Ennis, has shown some promise. 2009 - They traded Kassian away. McNabb seems to be faltering. Foligno is similar to Ennis, has shown some promise. 2010-12 No instant impact. That's 8 drafts with a handful of players (Ennis, Foligno, Weber, Myers & Gerbe) making any type of impact. The Sabres have a talent and depth problem. Their drafting history is a big part of the problem. I know you're just a crazy person who loves to complain and never offer solutions, but this is fairly spectacular. You're actually complaining that no one from the 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts has made an impact yet? You do realize that the oldest of those players is 20 years old, right? And that we didn't have any no.1 overall picks in those years? 2005, 2006, and 2007 were pretty poor draft years. By the time the Sabres had picks, the best talent was gone and there were only a couple guys left (in the entire draft) who were really worth anything. In that span, we did draft: Byron and Butler (later traded for Regehr), Mike Weber, Nathan Gerbe, and Jhonas Enroth. Drew Schiestel was on track to be in the NHL except for two catastrophic leg injuries and Corey Tropp would be a Sabre right now except for a torn ACL. We didn't land any stars, but it's not like we didn't add any value to the organization. 2008 was a success by any metric. Myers won Rookie of the Year and Ennis has 110 points in 167 NHL games. Myers and Ennis are 8th and 9th (respectively) in career NHL points out of all the players taken in the 2008 draft (there were 211 of them). 2009 was also a success. We traded Kassian for Vancouver's no.1 prospect and that guy has been great this season. McNabb is doing just fine in Rochester this year and Foligno is a legit NHL power forward. Hard to say we didn't get anyone valuable there. The NHL draft is second only to the MLB draft in terms of difficulty and the vast majority of NHL draft picks amount to basically nothing. The Sabres missed on some great players the same way every team does, but they've still found assets in the draft consistently. The scouting/drafting isn't the problem with this franchise.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Why did they trade Brennan? To open up a roster spot for Pysyk? Or, maybe it was for that Finnish *Not So Much* Flash guy?
deluca67 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I know you're just a crazy person who loves to complain and never offer solutions, but this is fairly spectacular. You're actually complaining that no one from the 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts has made an impact yet? You do realize that the oldest of those players is 20 years old, right? And that we didn't have any no.1 overall picks in those years? 2005, 2006, and 2007 were pretty poor draft years. By the time the Sabres had picks, the best talent was gone and there were only a couple guys left (in the entire draft) who were really worth anything. In that span, we did draft: Byron and Butler (later traded for Regehr), Mike Weber, Nathan Gerbe, and Jhonas Enroth. Drew Schiestel was on track to be in the NHL except for two catastrophic leg injuries and Corey Tropp would be a Sabre right now except for a torn ACL. We didn't land any stars, but it's not like we didn't add any value to the organization. 2008 was a success by any metric. Myers won Rookie of the Year and Ennis has 110 points in 167 NHL games. Myers and Ennis are 8th and 9th (respectively) in career NHL points out of all the players taken in the 2008 draft (there were 211 of them). 2009 was also a success. We traded Kassian for Vancouver's no.1 prospect and that guy has been great this season. McNabb is doing just fine in Rochester this year and Foligno is a legit NHL power forward. Hard to say we didn't get anyone valuable there. The NHL draft is second only to the MLB draft in terms of difficulty and the vast majority of NHL draft picks amount to basically nothing. The Sabres missed on some great players the same way every team does, but they've still found assets in the draft consistently. The scouting/drafting isn't the problem with this franchise. This is just blind allegiance. It is the exact mentality that so many fear Terry Pegula has succumb to. If you can look at this teams draft history and not consider it a problem then there is simply no helping you. LOL you mean Hockey Purgatory... better known as Ground Hog Day... p.s. here we go again with the Caps today. A young Irish lad spending St. Patty's day on South Beach? This has to be the greatest week of his life.
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 This is just blind allegiance. It is the exact mentality that so many fear Terry Pegula has succumb to. If you can look at this teams draft history and not consider it a problem then there is simply no helping you. And if you look at the draft only years later with perfect 20/20 hindsight and wonder why we didn't draft the best player available 100% of the time, then you don't understand how the draft works.
JJFIVEOH Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Darcy should have been fired the day he didn't pick Martin St. Louis.
TrueBlueGED Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 And if you look at the draft only years later with perfect 20/20 hindsight and wonder why we didn't draft the best player available 100% of the time, then you don't understand how the draft works. It's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he's trolling ;)
LTS Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Rather than speculate about draft success I'd love to see some kind of comparison on how well every other GM drafted in comparison to DR. Some standout but I feel there are a lot who've missed just as much as DR has and some of them we might actually consider good. I started looking that up, but I didn't have the time.
TrueBlueGED Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Rather than speculate about draft success I'd love to see some kind of comparison on how well every other GM drafted in comparison to DR. Some standout but I feel there are a lot who've missed just as much as DR has and some of them we might actually consider good. I started looking that up, but I didn't have the time. Jerry West, one of the greatest NBA players and GMs in history, once said something to the effect of "when it comes to drafting, if you're hitting on 50%+1 you're doing a heck of a job". Point being, outside of a couple of guys each year, it's a total crapshoot.
deluca67 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 And if you look at the draft only years later with perfect 20/20 hindsight and wonder why we didn't draft the best player available 100% of the time, then you don't understand how the draft works. So a GM should never be judged on draft success? :blink:
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Rather than speculate about draft success I'd love to see some kind of comparison on how well every other GM drafted in comparison to DR. Some standout but I feel there are a lot who've missed just as much as DR has and some of them we might actually consider good. I started looking that up, but I didn't have the time. The tough part is that the highest pick he's ever had was 5th overall (Vanek). The second highest was 11th overall (Keith Ballard, who has 530 NHL games under his belt and was moved as a prospect for some guy named Chris Drury). So literally one top ten pick since Regier became the GM. Not exactly a ton of opportunities to land superstars. There's also the part where we don't really know how much of the draft is his decisions versus the scouting department. Is Regier really pouring over game film of every prospect available every year or is he reading reports and talking to scouts in the weeks leading up to the draft? If I had to guess, I'd say the Director of Amateur Scouting (Kevin Devine) has more to do with our outcome than the GM. So a GM should never be judged on draft success? :blink: No. I'm saying you don't even understand what draft success is.
deluca67 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he's trolling ;) If "trolling" means usually right, then yes, yes I am. The tough part is that the highest pick he's ever had was 5th overall (Vanek). The second highest was 11th overall (Keith Ballard, who has 530 NHL games under his belt and was moved as a prospect for some guy named Chris Drury). So literally one top ten pick since Regier became the GM. Not exactly a ton of opportunities to land superstars. There's also the part where we don't really know how much of the draft is his decisions versus the scouting department. Is Regier really pouring over game film of every prospect available every year or is he reading reports and talking to scouts in the weeks leading up to the draft? If I had to guess, I'd say the Director of Amateur Scouting (Kevin Devine) has more to do with our outcome than the GM. No. I'm saying you don't even understand what draft success is. I understand that when you continually draft poorly you end up where the Sabres are now. A roster lacking talent and a franchise lacking depth. But, lets blame Kevin Devine. :doh: I thought the Pollyanna excuse making was going the end when Pegula and his deep pockets took over.
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I understand that when you continually draft poorly you end up where the Sabres are now. A roster lacking talent and a franchise lacking depth. But, lets blame Kevin Devine. :doh: I thought the Pollyanna excuse making was going the end when Pegula and his deep pockets took over. If anything I would credit Kevin Devine with how well we've drafted recently. But it's OK if you don't understand what I'm getting at. Your level of ignorance on this topic is staggering. You included the 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts as "failed" drafts because none of those (20 years old and younger) players have made an impact in the NHL yet (it's March 2013, in case you forgot). And the 2008 draft was a failure despite giving us a the Rookie of the Year and two of the top ten players in points from that draft. Most of all, the 2009 draft was a failure....somehow.....despite the fact that in the Hodgson for Kassian thread, you seem to think Zack Kassian is the second coming of Cam Neely. So even though today you're saying the Sabres draft poorly, a few weeks back you were saying they drafted a future superstar power forward. Which is it?
Iron Crotch Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Even Elkund is taking shots at Darcy: "By the way.. Brennan for a 5th to Florida...I predict this as the first official "Epic Fail" of the 2013 Deadline. When a team coached by Kevin Dineen (now in Florida) calls you and wants to trade for a guy he knows REALLY well and trusted entirely in the AHL....you hold out for a little more than a 5th round pick. Look at all the money and playing time the Sabres farm system invested in TJ...The kid would be an immediate top four in Philly and would help any team on the power play. This trade was flat out insane..." :lol:
dudacek Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It hurts to agree with Eklund, but this trade could come back to bite us. That said, if TJ would be top four in Philly, why didn't the Flyers offer a fourth?
TrueBlueGED Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Even Elkund is taking shots at Darcy: "By the way.. Brennan for a 5th to Florida...I predict this as the first official "Epic Fail" of the 2013 Deadline. When a team coached by Kevin Dineen (now in Florida) calls you and wants to trade for a guy he knows REALLY well and trusted entirely in the AHL....you hold out for a little more than a 5th round pick. Look at all the money and playing time the Sabres farm system invested in TJ...The kid would be an immediate top four in Philly and would help any team on the power play. This trade was flat out insane..." :lol: ....so you're saying we fleeced Florida by getting a 5th for Brennan? ;) It hurts to agree with Eklund, but this trade could come back to bite us. That said, if TJ would be top four in Philly, why didn't the Flyers offer a fourth? Because it's Eklund and he's completely and totally full of ######?
nfreeman Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 IMHO, it's a bit silly to say that DR should've gotten more for Brennan. The real question is whether he should've been traded at all. He's been in the system for a long time now, so they know him pretty well. And it's not like any of the other young defensemen that DR has unloaded recently have turned into guys that we've regretted parting with (I'm thinking of Butler and MAG, but there may be others.) I did like his slapper and his edge (which wasn't as ferocious as some have described it, but it definitely exceeded that of many other of the Sabres' defensemen.) We'll see. I think most of the criticism is stemming from a general distaste for DR at this point, which is understandable.
IKnowPhysics Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 http://forums.sabres...480#entry448252 Conspiracy theory time! Dave Davis @DaveDavisHockeyHello from FNC. For those that keep track, there are Western Conf. scouts here from the Avalanche, Stars, Flames, Ducks, Wild & Blackhawks. Fascinating. Since this was the last game of the home stand, that means the scouts were likely here to watch this Sabres game and this game only. Seeing as how Leopold was scratched for the first time this season, and Brennan played his first game in 10 days, I'd say Brennan has a huge target on his back. Leopold may either be a known quantity or is not gathering much interest with those teams. Funny how that happens sometimes. It also tells me that the return for Brennan wasn't for a lack of shopping him around.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 http://forums.sabres...480#entry448252 Funny how that happens sometimes. It also tells me that the return for Brennan wasn't for a lack of shopping him around. Thank you for teaching me something.... Now I know why some people think I am an ######!.......
IKnowPhysics Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Darcy should have been fired the day he didn't pick Martin St. Louis. And then fired for drafting a small, soft player that would never be part of a Stanley Cup contender.
shrader Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 And then fired for drafting a small, soft player that would never be part of a Stanley Cup contender. And then there's the fact that Darcy wasn't even the GM when St. Louis was draft eligible, but then again the poster was just joking so I don't know why I'm even saying this
IKnowPhysics Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 And then fired for not travelling back in time to before he was GM so that he can tell John Muckler who to draft so that the Sabres go to the Stanley Cup Finals in his first couple of seasons as GM. Wait a minute.
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