deluca67 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Posted March 16, 2013 I'm not giving up on our 2007 draft class until we find out how Corey Tropp comes back from his ACL tear. We also traded Paul Byron for Robyn Regehr so it wasn't a total disaster there either, especially considering what an awful draft year that was for the league. When the best you got is a marginal player with a bad knee and a undersized throwaway part of a trade for a defenseman who has seen better days, it's a disaster.
LTS Posted March 16, 2013 Report Posted March 16, 2013 Ehrhoff was brought here for offense; Regehr to punish the opposition; Leino to possess the puck, or something. How's it working out? People can nitpick me and win the Xs and Os argument every time. I'll just ask. How's it working out for you? They can, because talking about the X's and O's is better than just going around saying "This sucks. That sucks. They suck. You suck." It doesn't take a lot of brains to sit there and point out that this team is terrible. That's like pointing out that it's cold outside. I'm not saying that you have no brains, but if all you want to contribute to anything is that everything sucks then what's the point of responding? The simple truth is this. The owner is staying. Ted Black is staying. The rest of the team can't be all moved at once so there has to be a discussion on what can move when. The problems with this team go far beyond bad draft class here or there. Looking at how guys have developed now against what the situation was when they were drafted, traded, signed, etc. is nice but it doesn't prove anything. You put a bad player on a good team and they look a lot better than they do if they are on a bad team. You put a good player on a bad team and they won't look as good either. Do you think for one moment that Wayne Gretzky is as successful as he was if he didn't have the people around him that he did? Of course not. He was still magnificent but one player can't turn a team around by himself. Pittsburgh didn't win with Lemieux, they won with Lemieux and Jagr, and, and, and. Regardless of anyone's criticism about Darcy Regier the fact of the matter is this. He ran a team that made it to the Stanley Cup in 1999 and he put together a team that did well in the mid-2000's. I think his recent moves have been fairly good. We like to blame Ruff for not developing the players. Well Regier can't do that for him and we don't know if Ruff is capable of developing players anywhere else because he hasn't had the chance. We can blame Regier for not firing Lindy sooner... sure.but he does have an owner who is committed to a family atmosphere and that probably played into it a bit as well. I think the coaching staff needs a complete overhaul. If Regier leaves then we'll see if someone else can do better, but he's here and I don't think he's necessarily the issue. The team we see this year is the team we've been waiting to see for a few years now. We all knew it was possible and we actually expected it but they would manage somehow to go on a run. Well, the luck is out. However with a shortened season and Ruff having built some habits on this team they aren't going to change overnight. This season is a loss and so the best bet is to find out what you have so you can begin making plans for the summer.
Robviously Posted March 16, 2013 Report Posted March 16, 2013 When the best you got is a marginal player with a bad knee and a undersized throwaway part of a trade for a defenseman who has seen better days, it's a disaster. Only if it was a good draft to begin with. 2007 was an awful draft class overall, and you can only draft the guys that are available.
deluca67 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Posted March 16, 2013 Only if it was a good draft to begin with. 2007 was an awful draft class overall, and you can only draft the guys that are available. There was talent to be had, mostly in the first round where the Sabres didn't have a pick. As pointed out earlier, Regier whiffed on the two best players available in round two.
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 T.J. Brennan just scored for Florida. Good for him.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 T.J. Brennan just scored for Florida. Good for him. 2nd in ice time next to Campbell..... Have no fear.....our 5th round draft pick will work out with Gary Roberts in the summer of 2017......
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 There was talent to be had, mostly in the first round where the Sabres didn't have a pick. What? Even the players that made it to the NHL from the first round are mostly mediocre. Not really sure how keeping our first rounder (28th or 29th) would have made us that much better there. Here's the entire draft: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html As pointed out earlier, Regier whiffed on the two best players available in round two. As pointed out earlier, there were only two good players available in the second round, meaning just about every team whiffed there. I'd like the Sabres to draft more guys like Simmonds in general, but I can't call the 2007 draft a disaster when it was slim pickings for everyone.
JJFIVEOH Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 What? Even the players that made it to the NHL from the first round are mostly mediocre. Not really sure how keeping our first rounder (28th or 29th) would have made us that much better there. Here's the entire draft: http://www.hockeydb....t/nhl2007e.html As pointed out earlier, there were only two good players available in the second round, meaning just about every team whiffed there. I'd like the Sabres to draft more guys like Simmonds in general, but I can't call the 2007 draft a disaster when it was slim pickings for everyone. Now you're just taking all the fun out of grasping at straws to find something worthy of trashing Darcy about.
Robviously Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Brennan #2 star. It would be hilarious if he turned into a superstar down there and led Florida to like three Stanley Cups. We'd definitely have something new to talk about.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It would be hilarious if he turned into a superstar down there and led Florida to like three Stanley Cups. We'd definitely have something new to talk about. He's with Brian Campbell....if he takes 70% of the trajectory of Campbell....he will make us look foolish. I liked this kid's attitude. He seemed like he was in the group of 8-10 guys who really were hindered by Ruff. Guys that have original thought and a little fire in their belly. He did not impress this year.....but to give the guy 3 weeks and a couple games after shackles off......not smart.
G-Daddy Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Brennan #2 star. Good for Brennan....he got out of hockey heaven just in time.
JJFIVEOH Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It would be hilarious if he turned into a superstar down there and led Florida to like three Stanley Cups. We'd definitely have something new to talk about. He looked really good tonight! Dineen had him going into the zone and crashing the net, had a couple of chances right in front of the net. Like Lindsey was saying after the game, the Panthers are at the point right now where they're getting the young guys ready to take over the team and move forward so Brennan's going to get a ton of minutes to prove himself and not have to worry about getting scratched if he makes a few mistakes. We all know how Ruff treated the guys who didn't have multi million dollar contracts when they made mistakes.
carpandean Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Simmonds was picked right after the Sabres second pick. There were two players in the second round that have really made a big impact. The Sabres had a chance at both and came away with nothing to show for the 2007 draft. Actually, there were three, since Jamie Benn was also available (not picked until the 5th round.) The point, however, is that if they were the only talented players available and every good GM should have known that, then why weren't they picked 32nd, 33rd and 34th? Or even earlier, since there were 4 misses at the end of the first round. The reason is that it was really unclear at the time. You picked out the only guys who happened to work out, but almost every GM in the NHL had earlier chances to grab them, too, and passed. Why? Because they weren't projected to be where they ended up. The teams that picked them may just have gotten lucky. Don't get me wrong, it is evidence against Darcy (and most every GM in the league), but it's not very strong and there's plenty of more significant evidence against him out there.
Weave Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I don't understand this. http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-rolston-believes-brennans-offense-will-materialize-with-panthers-agrees-with-grigorenko-move/#more Still, Rolston’s confident Brennan’s offensive will show up someday“I think so, and there were signs of it here,” Rolston said. “It’s just we were in a situation we probably couldn’t use him to the full amount in those capacities with where we were. I think eventually for him that’ll show up. They’re a real good team power play team, too, in Florida, so I’m sure they’ll use him properly.” *bold is mine
TrueBlueGED Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 He's with Brian Campbell....if he takes 70% of the trajectory of Campbell....he will make us look foolish. I liked this kid's attitude. He seemed like he was in the group of 8-10 guys who really were hindered by Ruff. Guys that have original thought and a little fire in their belly. He did not impress this year.....but to give the guy 3 weeks and a couple games after shackles off......not smart. To the bolded, you're right. But I'd give him about a 1% chance (actually, probably much less, but I'll be generous) of being 70% of Brian Campbell.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I don't understand this. http://www.buffaloho...enko-move/#more *bold is mine Holy Sh*tballs!.......
inkman Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I don't understand this. http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-rolston-believes-brennans-offense-will-materialize-with-panthers-agrees-with-grigorenko-move/#more *bold is mine I read it as "we already have Ehrhoff to do what he does but he can't actually play defense like most of our forwards so he was a bad fit here."
deluca67 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Actually, there were three, since Jamie Benn was also available (not picked until the 5th round.) The point, however, is that if they were the only talented players available and every good GM should have known that, then why weren't they picked 32nd, 33rd and 34th? Or even earlier, since there were 4 misses at the end of the first round. The reason is that it was really unclear at the time. You picked out the only guys who happened to work out, but almost every GM in the NHL had earlier chances to grab them, too, and passed. Why? Because they weren't projected to be where they ended up. The teams that picked them may just have gotten lucky. Don't get me wrong, it is evidence against Darcy (and most every GM in the league), but it's not very strong and there's plenty of more significant evidence against him out there. It's evidence directly correlated to the topic at at hand. It's easy for some fans to excuse away an entire draft where the Sabres come away empty handed. And taking a close look at other Sabres drafts it's easy to see why they are where they are now. 2005 - All they have from that draft is Gerbe and he's not much of a difference maker. 2006 - Mike Weber, a #6 or #7 defenseman. Jonas Enroth - a goalie the Sabres are afraid to play. 2007 - Nothing. 2008 - Tyler Myers, his stalled development is killing the Sabres. Tyler Ennis, has shown some promise. 2009 - They traded Kassian away. McNabb seems to be faltering. Foligno is similar to Ennis, has shown some promise. 2010-12 No instant impact. That's 8 drafts with a handful of players (Ennis, Foligno, Weber, Myers & Gerbe) making any type of impact. The Sabres have a talent and depth problem. Their drafting history is a big part of the problem. What? Even the players that made it to the NHL from the first round are mostly mediocre. Not really sure how keeping our first rounder (28th or 29th) would have made us that much better there. Here's the entire draft: http://www.hockeydb....t/nhl2007e.html As pointed out earlier, there were only two good players available in the second round, meaning just about every team whiffed there. I'd like the Sabres to draft more guys like Simmonds in general, but I can't call the 2007 draft a disaster when it was slim pickings for everyone. All you you doing is making excuses as to why Regier isn't getting the job done. There is a reason why the Sabres are at the bottom of the NHL. Poor drafting is a major part of the problem. "Slim pickings" or not, it's Regier's job to find those players in any draft that can make an impact on this franchise. In 2007 Regier was shutout, he hasn't fared much better in other drafts.
carpandean Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 It's evidence directly correlated to the topic at at hand. It's easy for some fans to excuse away an entire draft where the Sabres come away empty handed. And taking a close look at other Sabres drafts it's easy to see why they are where they are now. 2005 - All they have from that draft is Gerbe and he's not much of a difference maker. 2006 - Mike Weber, a #6 or #7 defenseman. Jonas Enroth - a goalie the Sabres are afraid to play. 2007 - Nothing. 2008 - Tyler Myers, his stalled development is killing the Sabres. Tyler Ennis, has shown some promise. 2009 - They traded Kassian away. McNabb seems to be faltering. Foligno is similar to Ennis, has shown some promise. 2010-12 No instant impact. That's 8 drafts with a handful of players (Ennis, Foligno, Weber, Myers & Gerbe) making any type of impact. The Sabres have a talent and depth problem. Their drafting history is a big part of the problem. As I said, it is evidence, but it's a relatively weak component of the evidence of a larger systemic problem that you are trying to show. I agree with you wholeheartedly about Darcy. My point was simply that cherry-picking the only two names (or 2 of 3) from a very weak draft in which everyone missed is not particularly damning. Would it be nice to have Subban and Simmons? Of course. It would also have been nice to have taken Pavel Datsyuk instead of Dmitri Kalinin (or Andrew Peter or Norm Milley or ...) in 1998. The ranking that I saw showed Subban in the 4th round and didn't even show Simmons. So, the scouts and most other GMs (even some of the best at that time) didn't know that they'd be better than most of the misses that year. Heck, four other GMs selected defensemen between Brennan and Subban. So, I have no problem with it as a component of a larger pattern, but will argue with it as a stand-alone, coup de grâce argument.
North Buffalo Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Good for Brennan....he got out of hockey heaven just in time. LOL you mean Hockey Purgatory... better known as Ground Hog Day... p.s. here we go again with the Caps today.
shrader Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 Players showing up in their first game after a trade. That sounds familiar. Anyone remember brad boyes or or Steve bernier's first games here. Lets see how Brennan plays once that emotional boost of being traded wears off.
Ross Rhea Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 To the bolded, you're right. But I'd give him about a 1% chance (actually, probably much less, but I'll be generous) of being 70% of Brian Campbell. I think Brennan is going to do fine in Fla. how can any armchair hockey fan judge a guy with any sort of accuracy in less than 2 dozen games. Can't be done.
SDS Posted March 17, 2013 Report Posted March 17, 2013 I think Brennan is going to do fine in Fla. how can any armchair hockey fan judge a guy with any sort of accuracy in less than 2 dozen games. Can't be done. The bottom line is that DR is ALWAYS accused of overrating his own players. People were amazed that he got a 1st for Gausted. If a 5th was what DR got, then I'm pretty sure nothing better was out there. The professionals valued him as a 5th rounder, not the armchair hockey fans.
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