2013 NHL Entry Draft: Buffalo Sabres Select...

[TrueBlueGED]

But if Buffalo bought him out, he could resign with Tampa at a very discounted rate

 

Why would he? Mike Ribeiro is the best free agent center available, followed by Derek Roy. If Lecavalier were suddenly on the market, he'd get paid $6MM+. Sure he wouldn't have a forever contract like now, but no way he signs at a massive discount IMO.

[dudacek]

And that is my point. We just can't assume TB would be willing to give up assets so someone takes on his contract. The Lightning ownership is very strong. I see him stroking a check just as easily as TP without giving up assets. In all the talk I have heard down here I have never heard anything about TB looking for a trade partner for Lecavalier. Not saying they wouldn't - just have not heard it.

 

Keep in mind though that the Lightning with the 3rd pick generates as much buzz as the Sabres do with the 23rd pick.

 

I'm not assuming, I'm asking. The Lightning are in a tough spot in the cap world and need to do something.

Lecavalier is their worst contract, more than $7 million a year for another seven years, until he's 40, and a no trade clause.

If they buy him out themselves they gain the cap space, but they are out both the $30 million buyout cost and their captain.

 

Under the scenario I proposed, they gain the cap space while keeping Vinnie and saving $30 million.

I don't care how rich you are, $30 million is a lot of money.

 

Offer Vinnie 5 years at $5 million per to agree to the deal. That way he gets $55 million, including $30 million up front.

He gets $6 million more than he's owed now, gets it two years earlier, gets to stay in TB, and helps his team out at the same time.

 

Both parties win and would be foolish not to do it, if they could convince a third party to take on the buyout at a reasonable price.

My question was: would dropping from 3 to 8 be a reasonable price?

 

EDIT: Looks like the buyout is spread out, not up front. Don't think it changes the scenario much though.

 

Why would he? Mike Ribeiro is the best free agent center available, followed by Derek Roy. If Lecavalier were suddenly on the market, he'd get paid $6MM+. Sure he wouldn't have a forever contract like now, but no way he signs at a massive discount IMO.

 

Could the above scenario be a way?

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not assuming, I'm asking. The Lightning are in a tough spot in the cap world and need to do something.

Lecavalier is their worst contract, more than $7 million a year for another seven years, until he's 40, and a no trade clause.

If they buy him out themselves they gain the cap space, but they are out both the $30 million buyout cost and their captain.

 

Under the scenario I proposed, they gain the cap space while keeping Vinnie and saving $30 million.

I don't care how rich you are, $30 million is a lot of money.

 

Offer Vinnie 5 years at $5 million per to agree to the deal. That way he gets $55 million, including $30 million up front.

He gets $6 million more than he's owed now, gets it two years earlier, gets to stay in TB, and helps his team out at the same time.

 

Both parties win and would be foolish not to do it, if they could convince a third party to take on the buyout at a reasonable price.

My question was: would dropping from 3 to 8 be a reasonable price?

 

Could the above scenario be a way?

 

Certainly could be. Other considerations from Vinny's perspective: How close he feels Tampa is to competing, and how crucial it is for him to be on a competing team to finish out his career. How much does he like playing in Tampa? Is there a chance he'd prefer to finish his career out in a more traditional hockey market that could also use a center (I'm lookin' at you, Winnipeg)? Would he have bad blood with Tampa if they asked him to waive his NMC because they wanted to save money? No idea on any of these, just some food for thought.

 

I honestly don't think 3-8 is a fair price from Tampa's perspective, as they have solid ownership and good fan support. I think it would be a much more attractive option if they were in Phoenix's situation.

[Koomkie]

Crosby had a PPG in his last year of the Q of 2.7

MacKinnon had a PPG in his last year of Q of 1.7

 

MacKinnon has numbers of a legitimate top 5 pick, there are things to be excited about. In looking at comparables I hadn't looked as far back as Turgeon. Turgeon had excellent PPG numbers, but had a number of factors against him. I have a series of blog posts coming that get into detail.

 

Picking first is really about energizing the base. If they trade that far up, you will know that marketing (Pegula or the lawyer that runs things, I forget his name) runs the show. Trading up part way might be worth it, I haven't quite decided.

 

What caught my ear with the Devine interview is that they are still talking about emulating Detroit.

 

grigs had 1.6ppg this year for the Q. i think us trading grigs, and three other prospects and picks is a horrible idea. i say we trade vanek and miller, get the picks and prospects, if we can move up a little with those, then great, but otherwise get as many guys as possible in this draft and we will still suck next year so we can have another top ten, hopefully top 5 pick. we will be stacked with loads of potential talent

[LGR4GM]

because Tampa is still boring...

 

Rasmus Ristolainen RHD 6'4" 207lbs, considered one of the smartest players in the draft, he could be our #8 pick.

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2013/6/13/4427524/2013-nhl-draft-profile-scouting-report-rasmus-ristolainen

Summary:

Probably the best defender in his own Zone. Superb hockey sense and good skating. His incredible intelligence with the puck on his stick is discussed. Finally they say he should be able to log top pairing minutes and contribute 25-30pts a year as a #1 shutdown defender with grit and size.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

grigs had 1.6ppg this year for the Q. i think us trading grigs, and three other prospects and picks is a horrible idea. i say we trade vanek and miller, get the picks and prospects, if we can move up a little with those, then great, but otherwise get as many guys as possible in this draft and we will still suck next year so we can have another top ten, hopefully top 5 pick. we will be stacked with loads of potential talent

 

I agree trade Miller and see what u can get for him. Move both seconds and possibly one of next years seconds for another 1st. The key is trying to have 4 1st rounders in the top 20. That would definitely move this team in the right direction.

[Koomkie]

I agree trade Miller and see what u can get for him. Move both seconds and possibly one of next years seconds for another 1st. The key is trying to have 4 1st rounders in the top 20. That would definitely move this team in the right direction.

 

i would honestly be fine with just one more 1st rounder and keeping our 2nds. it would be great if we could grab the #7 or #9. edmonton fired their GM because he failed to bring in top talent with all the prospects...i expect them to move that pick.

if we could snag elias lindholme and ristolainen with those picks, i would be very happy. trading miller or vanek for first rounders next year is still fine with me as well. i think it will add to our sucktitude and give us a real shot at conner mcdavid. and he can be our elite player. as i have said before, it is just nice to know that we have a lot of solid options this year and since we are rebuilding, i expect some major movement.

 

oh and dont forget as well that grigs was ranked in the top three last year for a lot of the season....only falling off towards the end for the russian factor and his mono performance. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176284-2012-nhl-mock-draft/page/4

the guy is a stud with incredible vision and he is a big body as well. i think darcy is an idiot if he trades grigs, mcnabb, armia, 8th or whatever they were saying

[LGR4GM]

i would honestly be fine with just one more 1st rounder and keeping our 2nds. it would be great if we could grab the #7 or #9. edmonton fired their GM because he failed to bring in top talent with all the prospects...i expect them to move that pick.

if we could snag elias lindholme and ristolainen with those picks, i would be very happy. trading miller or vanek for first rounders next year is still fine with me as well. i think it will add to our sucktitude and give us a real shot at conner mcdavid. and he can be our elite player. as i have said before, it is just nice to know that we have a lot of solid options this year and since we are rebuilding, i expect some major movement.

 

oh and dont forget as well that grigs was ranked in the top three last year for a lot of the season....only falling off towards the end for the russian factor and his mono performance. http://bleacherrepor...ck-draft/page/4

the guy is a stud with incredible vision and he is a big body as well. i think darcy is an idiot if he trades grigs, mcnabb, armia, 8th or whatever they were saying

LINDHOLM no E

[Koomkie]

and this http://bleacherreport.com/articles/736894-2011-nhl-mock-draft-projecting-all-the-first-round-picks/page/13

 

"I truly think Armia will be the steal of this draft."

 

i have read this in quite a few mock drafts. i cannot wait to see armia next year. kid looks incredible. keep our picks. or just move up the 16th to 7 or 9

 

LINDHOLM no E

thanks...i always do that

[LGR4GM]

and this http://bleacherrepor...d-picks/page/13

 

"I truly think Armia will be the steal of this draft."

 

i have read this in quite a few mock drafts. i cannot wait to see armia next year. kid looks incredible. keep our picks. or just move up the 16th to 7 or 9

 

 

thanks...i always do that

Lol no prob. As for Armia, I want to see him play first. He excites me.

 

What about sending either Vanek or Miller to Columbus for 14th and stuff. Maybe then you could package 14/16 and move up to 7 or something. There are a lot of options here.

[spndnchz]

Why would he? Mike Ribeiro is the best free agent center available, followed by Derek Roy. If Lecavalier were suddenly on the market, he'd get paid $6MM+. Sure he wouldn't have a forever contract like now, but no way he signs at a massive discount IMO.

 

You'll have Briere out there as a free agent too.

[rakish]

You'll have Briere out there as a free agent too.

 

What do you guys and girls think of Briere and a second, for nothing?

 

Philly would lose the big cap hit

If I understand Dudacek, they would save paying Briere his buyout of 3.3

Philly would retain a buyout for other problems

 

Sabres gain Briere, pay him 3m this year, 2m the next.

Sabres take on big cap hit, but unless they go shopping in free agency, doesn't matter

[X. Benedict]

What do you guys and girls think of Briere and a second, for nothing?

 

Philly would lose the big cap hit

If I understand Dudacek, they would save paying Briere his buyout of 3.3

Philly would retain a buyout for other problems

 

Sabres gain Briere, pay him 3m this year, 2m the next.

Sabres take on big cap hit, but unless they go shopping in free agency, doesn't matter

 

I'm not sure what happens, but I don't think anybody is going to help buy Philly out.

Briere has a No movement clause. ..... the obvious move for Briere is take the buyout and go where he wants for the price he wants netting above what he would have made with the buyout and new salary.

[dudacek]

I'd do it if thats the best option on the table, but I'd be angling for a bigger fish than a second, and I would be dangling Miller for Bryzgalov to get their attention.

 

Edit: where do you guys go for info on no-trade clauses, etc?

X's take certainly makes better sense from Briere's perspective.

He's kinda got them over a barrel with a no-trade.

[rakish]

You're right X, I forgot about the NMC

[Hoss]

What makes this discussion deliciously awesome is that we shouldn't even be having it. The Sabres ridiculous run to 11th ruined what should be a discussion about who are we taking; Drouin, MacKinnen or Jones.

 

It bothers me to no end that it happened. I don't blame the players, I blame Darcy. They should have blew it up. I'm not sure that would have even worked. Every player they brought up tried harder and played better than the guys they replaced. We had it right in front of us.

 

Exactly.

[Lanny]

Edit: where do you guys go for info on no-trade clauses, etc?

capgeek

http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/ No trades are indicated with the lock icon, scroll over them to get the details.

[TrueBlueGED]

If we're going to use junior point totals to heavily influence how good we think a kid will be in the pros, the we should cut Grigs immediately and the Avs should he happy with a 2nd round pick for #1. Why, you ask? Take a look at Marek Zagrapan's production in the Q...everyone with similar production will suck because he sucked!

 

My point is that just because MacKinnon barely produced more than Grigs is meaningless. MacKinnon is on another level and you won't find an objective opinion to the contrary.

[LTS]

I think the most telling thing about McNabb is that Pysyk got the call to the big club over McNabb(who was healthy at the time). I honestly did not think McNabb was all that impressive during his stint in the NHL in 11-12. He had a hit or two, and he was being called McNasty, and he is going to be great blah blah blah. Okay for his first time with the big club, but no WOW factor to the point where I'd be calling him a top 4 NHL blueliner.

 

Well, did it help that Pysyk could play more games with Buffalo before having to clear waivers? Also, which type of defenseman did they need at the time? It's not always about calling up the best player. I'm not saying that McNabb is great just that there might have been other reasons as to why Pysyk.

 

What makes this discussion deliciously awesome is that we shouldn't even be having it. The Sabres ridiculous run to 11th ruined what should be a discussion about who are we taking; Drouin, MacKinnen or Jones.

 

It bothers me to no end that it happened. I don't blame the players, I blame Darcy. They should have blew it up. I'm not sure that would have even worked. Every player they brought up tried harder and played better than the guys they replaced. We had it right in front of us.

 

In order for them to have completely BLOWN IT UP they would have had to trade away all the talent they had. If they did that would you be a happy fan? I don't get it, I suppose I never will. The team improved by removing certain players from the team. What does that tell you?

 

Finally, I don't understand why so many are ready to give everything for 1 player. Even if MacKinnon is the next Sydney Crosby what does it mean? The Pittsburgh Penguins have succeeded without Crosby every time he's been out (and it's been quite a bit the past two seasons). Giving up everything for 1 player isn't going to do anything for the team. Columbus had Rick Nash, they weren't so successful. The Capitals have Ovechkin and look at the rollercoaster ride they've been on. The Bruins are in the Cup Final for the second time in the past few years and they don't have a Sydney Crosby type player at all. The Kings battled and they're lacking that one player as well. Sure Chicago and Pittsburgh have their Kane & Toews and Crosby & Malkin but they didn't give up the world to get it. People talk about Vancouver and getting the Sedins but in the same sentence seem to forget that they've used a plural there. They didn't get 1 player they got 2 players.

[CheckingLine]

8 to 1, not going to happen. 3, 4 or 5 to 1, Maybe. In my opinion that is where the second tier drop-off happens. If you get to 4 and don't get to 1, are you upset? I say, get to at least 4, take Barkov, Nichushkin, or Drouin. Does a team with one of the Hart Trophy finalists always win the Cup? Hodgson, Armia, Grigorenko, Larssen, Pysyk, McNabb, Myers, Girgensen, Tropp, Foligno.... all 23 or under. Some of those guys are not going to be the player we want them to be. If Darcy sends it all to the Avs who are the core players? Add one of the three 2013 draft 3,4 or 5 talents this year and another very good prospect at 16 and let the rebuild happen. Then go trade an NHL defenseman and a 3rd or 2nd in 2014 for Tallinder in the last year of his contract and pair him with Myers to get him back on track. That provides the 10 under 23s plus this years two high firsts, (12 total under 23s, counting Myers) as potential core players. They need 6-7 to reach or exceed their projected potential for a successful rebuild.

[TrueBlueGED]

 

 

Well, did it help that Pysyk could play more games with Buffalo before having to clear waivers? Also, which type of defenseman did they need at the time? It's not always about calling up the best player. I'm not saying that McNabb is great just that there might have been other reasons as to why Pysyk.

 

 

 

In order for them to have completely BLOWN IT UP they would have had to trade away all the talent they had. If they did that would you be a happy fan? I don't get it, I suppose I never will. The team improved by removing certain players from the team. What does that tell you?

 

Finally, I don't understand why so many are ready to give everything for 1 player. Even if MacKinnon is the next Sydney Crosby what does it mean? The Pittsburgh Penguins have succeeded without Crosby every time he's been out (and it's been quite a bit the past two seasons). Giving up everything for 1 player isn't going to do anything for the team. Columbus had Rick Nash, they weren't so successful. The Capitals have Ovechkin and look at the rollercoaster ride they've been on. The Bruins are in the Cup Final for the second time in the past few years and they don't have a Sydney Crosby type player at all. The Kings battled and they're lacking that one player as well. Sure Chicago and Pittsburgh have their Kane & Toews and Crosby & Malkin but they didn't give up the world to get it. People talk about Vancouver and getting the Sedins but in the same sentence seem to forget that they've used a plural there. They didn't get 1 player they got 2 players.

 

There is nothing that can guarantee a Cup. Nothing. And nobody has suggested otherwise. But having star players means you're always in the conversation. How many teams are consistently in the top 4 of each conference without star players? Funny you mention LA....they used a former #3 overall pick to get Carter. Then they used a former #5 pick and a good young player to get Richards. They can't assemble that Cup team without being horrible for a stretch.

[Hoss]

Talked about MacKinnon some here http://sabresoftomorrow.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/nathan-mackinnon-prospect-profile/ if we somehow do miraculously get up high enough to take him.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Talked about MacKinnon some here http://sabresoftomor...ospect-profile/ if we somehow do miraculously get up high enough to take him.

 

A good write up.

 

Two minor things ...

 

Cole Harbour is a suburb of Dartmouth, NS ... our twin city on the other side of the harbour.

 

He scored 33 points in 17 games of the Q league playoffs and scored 13 points in 4 games at the Memorial Cup.

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

Not sure this year is the best year for the Sabres to target picking #1 overall. In fact, I suspect the talk of speaking to Colorado is more of a smokescreen than anything else.

 

Sure, MacKinnon comes highly rated, but is the gap between him and the guy we could potentially get at 8 THAT huge that it justifies throwing in some very promising prospects? I wouldn't be surprised if the Sabres are really looking at a two step plan along these lines:

 

Turn Vanek and Miller into picks this year, preferably 1st rounders for both. Use the glut of first round picks to pick up a very strong crop of prospects. Proceed to suck balls to high heaven and secure a top 3 pick next year. Get your franchise center in Connor McDavid at a much cheaper price.

[Hoss]

Not sure this year is the best year for the Sabres to target picking #1 overall. In fact, I suspect the talk of speaking to Colorado is more of a smokescreen than anything else.

 

Sure, MacKinnon comes highly rated, but is the gap between him and the guy we could potentially get at 8 THAT huge that it justifies throwing in some very promising prospects? I wouldn't be surprised if the Sabres are really looking at a two step plan along these lines:

 

Turn Vanek and Miller into picks this year, preferably 1st rounders for both. Use the glut of first round picks to pick up a very strong crop of prospects. Proceed to suck balls to high heaven and secure a top 3 pick next year. Get your franchise center in Connor McDavid at a much cheaper price.

 

Yes. It's that huge. This draft is absurdly strong at the top from 1-5/6. Then from 6/7-the middle of the first it's back down to earth. Then it gets strong again from then through the entire second round.

 

A good write up.

 

Two minor things ...

 

Cole Harbour is a suburb of Dartmouth, NS ... our twin city on the other side of the harbour.

 

He scored 33 points in 17 games of the Q league playoffs and scored 13 points in 4 games at the Memorial Cup.

 

Ahhh thanks. I was looking at statistics posted as "Playoffs" and didn't think to separate the two.