2013 NHL Entry Draft: Buffalo Sabres Select...

[inkman]

What makes this discussion deliciously awesome is that we shouldn't even be having it. The Sabres ridiculous run to 11th ruined what should be a discussion about who are we taking; Drouin, MacKinnen or Jones.

 

It bothers me to no end that it happened. I don't blame the players, I blame Darcy. They should have blew it up. I'm not sure that would have even worked. Every player they brought up tried harder and played better than the guys they replaced. We had it right in front of us.

[sicknfla]

Just watch the finals and you have your blueprint. We need elite players, skilled players, and character players to reach that level. How many current guys on our roster makes those teams? I would say 3-5 if your lucky. This draft is just the start. We have a LONG ways to go. Number 1 pick or not.

[deluca67]

What makes this discussion deliciously awesome is that we shouldn't even be having it. The Sabres ridiculous run to 11th ruined what should be a discussion about who are we taking; Drouin, MacKinnen or Jones.

 

It bothers me to no end that it happened. I don't blame the players, I blame Darcy. They should have blew it up. I'm not sure that would have even worked. Every player they brought up tried harder and played better than the guys they replaced. We had it right in front of us.

He should have stayed pat and kept Lindy as coach?

 

The idea of cashing in a bunch of assets for one player seems insane to me. If you make that move and the kid is a bust or gets injured you have set your franchise back years.

[inkman]

 

He should have stayed pat and kept Lindy as coach?

 

The idea of cashing in a bunch of assets for one player seems insane to me. If you make that move and the kid is a bust or gets injured you have set your franchise back years.

Because they are on the cusp of greatness? I'd actually move as much as I could right now to ensure they will be terrible the next two years so they can draft McDavid.

[darksabre]

 

 

The Sabres have tried that route year after year and it has resulted in no cups.

 

The only time the Sabres drafted a franchise player was their first ever pick.

 

I want a chance to get another. Break the bank, I say. Get to #1 and then restock and build the team around that franchise guy.

 

This is my feeling as well. Just like the Bills refusing to get a franchise QB forever, I want the Sabres to do whatever it takes RIGHT NOW to get their big franchise player of the next 7-10 years. We need that guy. Because we don't yet have that guy.

[dudacek]

 

Where do you get 3-4 likely first line guys? If we stand pat at 8 and 16, then proceed to add another 10-15 pick, we'll be fortunate if one of those guys turns into a legit top line player on a good team. Also, I don't think Couturier is likely to be a top line center, I just haven't seen or read about the requisite offensive skill being there.

 

Perhaps poorly phrased. I think we should be able to leverage Miller, Vanek and cap dumps into two more top 15 picks. I think one of those four, at least in this draft, is likely to hit as a genuine first liner, two others would be top six forwards or top four defenceman, and the fourth will likely be a bust.

 

Basically, I'm saying I wouldn't go all in on MacKinnon for Vanek , Miller, 8, 16 and the cream of our prospect list.

I would rather have four picks in the first half of the first round and all our best prospects than MacKinnon and none of them.

 

Edit: I might, however, do Vanek, Miller, 8 and 16 for MacKinnon, or substitute Grigorenko for any one of those elements. if Colorado could resign V & M they would have to seriously consider that haul.

[TrueBlueGED]

Perhaps poorly phrased. I think we should be able to leverage Miller, Vanek and cap dumps into two more top 15 picks. I think one of those four, at least in this draft, is likely to hit as a genuine first liner, two others would be top six forwards or top four defenceman, and the fourth will likely be a bust.

 

Basically, I'm saying I wouldn't go all in on MacKinnon for Vanek , Miller, 8, 16 and the cream of our prospect list.

I would rather have four picks in the first half of the first round and all our best prospects than MacKinnon and none of them.

 

Edit: I might, however, do Vanek, Miller, 8 and 16 for MacKinnon, or substitute Grigorenko for any one of those elements. if Colorado could resign V & M they would have to seriously consider that haul.

 

Gotcha. I just see it differently. I view it as giving up the cream of our prospect pool for a franchise cornerstone, and using Vanek & Miller to replenish that prospect pool with new guys. I also think you're overestimating the success rate of the picks in the 10-15 range.

 

So other than being wrong, misguided, and not knowing how to value players, I think you make great points :P ;)

 

Honestly though, I don't think you're wrong per se, I just think the time is now for a different approach (which is somewhat amusing, seeing as I don't think this alternate approach is realistically possible), that's all :)

[Sherman]

The more I think about the comments about teams not wanting to trade for our veterans the more I don't think Miller or Vanek get us a 1st at the draft. I could see a prospect or two plus a conditional 2nd next year that could go to a first if they are resigned. Also, we may need to with hold money back or take something less desirable (All Koltalik comes to mind) to get returns of any kind in this draft.

[dudacek]

 

So other than being wrong, misguided, and not knowing how to value players, I think you make great points :P ;)

 

Yeah, well judging by your avatar, your sister is a cow. :P ;)

(And yes, mine is a bitch.)

[dudacek]

The more I think about the comments about teams not wanting to trade for our veterans the more I don't think Miller or Vanek get us a 1st at the draft. I could see a prospect or two plus a conditional 2nd next year that could go to a first if they are resigned. Also, we may need to with hold money back or take something less desirable (All Koltalik comes to mind) to get returns of any kind in this draft.

 

Look at what similar players got. Pominville got a first, a second,and two prospects likely to play (but not star) in the NHL.

Nash got more with only one team bidding.

Vanek is one of the best pure scorers in the league.

If he can't net a first, or an equivalent prospect - plus - don't trade him at the draft. Wait until the next deadline.

Gaustad got a first, FFS.

[Sherman]

 

 

Look at what similar players got. Pominville got a first, a second,and two prospects likely to play (but not star) in the NHL.

Nash got more with only one team bidding.

Vanek is one of the best pure scorers in the league.

If he can't net a first, or an equivalent prospect - plus - don't trade him at the draft. Wait until the next deadline.

Gaustad got a first, FFS.

 

I wasn't saying I don't think Vanek can get us a 1st. I'm just saying I don't know if he can get us a 1st in this draft based on the statement that teams don't want our veterans. I agree though, keep him if the return doesn't start with a 1st. Miller, that is a tougher choice. We have 3 NHL ready goalies and there are several options in the market.

[TrueBlueGED]

I wasn't saying I don't think Vanek can get us a 1st. I'm just saying I don't know if he can get us a 1st in this draft based on the statement that teams don't want our veterans. I agree though, keep him if the return doesn't start with a 1st. Miller, that is a tougher choice. We have 3 NHL ready goalies and there are several options in the market.

 

To be clear, teams at the top don't want our veterans in our attempts to move up...but that still leaves a bunch of other teams to talk to.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Here's the thing.......I can't speak for everyone, but I think a TRUE SCOUT.....a guy who really has confidence in his ability to identify talent, wants as many picks as possible in a "deep draft". Now, if the Sabres really feel it is deep....I don't know, but it seems that way from what I read from the rest of the world....but you would think it would be good to go quantity over quality. I am not nearly as versed in understanding and evaluating the NHL draft as I am the NFL, but I have heard Devine speak enough over the years to feel he is a Scout's, Scout. I like the guy. As opposed to Darcy who is so wishy-washy......I want a guy with passion who is going to say.."This M'F'r can play and we need to draft him."

 

Again, I know there have been studies with the NHL in position, and it is much harder to project an 18 yo kid to a 22yo man.....but it just feels crazy, and almost a punt, to try to trade up for a guy. Is he Crosby, or is he Turgeon?

 

Blah....there I go, sort of caring again.......

[thewookie1]

If only I could achieve this roster I'd be happy:

 

Vanek - MacKinnon - Drouin

Ott - Hodgson - Horton

Leino - Foligno - Ryder

Kaleta - Girgensons - Tropp

 

Erhroff - Sulzer

Myers - ??

Sekera - Weber

 

Enroth

Hackett

 

 

 

 

[dudacek]

If you were the Lightning and trapped in cap hell, would you trade down from 3 to 8 if the Sabres bought out Lecavalier for you?

Would it sweeten the pot if Lecavalier had pre-agreed to re-sign with you at a very reasonable rate after Pegula handed him $40 million?

If you were the Avalanche or the Panthers, would you take 3 and 16 for 1 or 2?

[SabresBillsFan]

 

He should have stayed pat and kept Lindy as coach?

 

The idea of cashing in a bunch of assets for one player seems insane to me. If you make that move and the kid is a bust or gets injured you have set your franchise back years.

 

This I totally agree on. Don't go all in on MacKinnon or Barkov. Number 1 picks aren't the easiest to acquire anyways. My personal feeling is you double the scouting staff held your own combine. The whole point was to find and pick the best players available. To me why give up young players, picks and or one of your best player for one unproven junior player. Now if its Sidney Crosby type skill or the so hype Connor McDavid then maybe I put a package together. But u also don't want to set the franchise back either by giving up alot to acquire 1 player.

 

 

 

Perhaps poorly phrased. I think we should be able to leverage Miller, Vanek and cap dumps into two more top 15 picks. I think one of those four, at least in this draft, is likely to hit as a genuine first liner, two others would be top six forwards or top four defenceman, and the fourth will likely be a bust.

 

Basically, I'm saying I wouldn't go all in on MacKinnon for Vanek , Miller, 8, 16 and the cream of our prospect list.

I would rather have four picks in the first half of the first round and all our best prospects than MacKinnon and none of them.

 

Edit: I might, however, do Vanek, Miller, 8 and 16 for MacKinnon, or substitute Grigorenko for any one of those elements. if Colorado could resign V & M they would have to seriously consider that haul.

 

You know how far back that would set this team? 2 of your teams best player and 2 first rounder for 1 player. No way in hell Darcy makes that deal. I like what someone else mentioned why not move Miller for another top 15 pick and Vanek for another top 20 pick. If you plan to move Miller and Vanek. I happen to agree what some of us think. About Vanek being one of the best pure scorers in hockey. I really believe he is and if he had a player like Getzlaf passing him the puck he would be a 50 goal scorer year in and year out.

[thewookie1]

How about having the Avs draft MacKinnon and Buffalo drafting two players Colorado wants and throwing in Pysyk and Grigs

[X. Benedict]

Here's the thing.......I can't speak for everyone, but I think a TRUE SCOUT.....a guy who really has confidence in his ability to identify talent, wants as many picks as possible in a "deep draft". Now, if the Sabres really feel it is deep....I don't know, but it seems that way from what I read from the rest of the world....but you would think it would be good to go quantity over quality. I am not nearly as versed in understanding and evaluating the NHL draft as I am the NFL, but I have heard Devine speak enough over the years to feel he is a Scout's, Scout. I like the guy. As opposed to Darcy who is so wishy-washy......I want a guy with passion who is going to say.."This M'F'r can play and we need to draft him."

 

Again, I know there have been studies with the NHL in position, and it is much harder to project an 18 yo kid to a 22yo man.....but it just feels crazy, and almost a punt, to try to trade up for a guy. Is he Crosby, or is he Turgeon?

 

Blah....there I go, sort of caring again.......

I think you are right about the scouts.

It must kill scouts when a club trades away picks.

 

If this draft is as deep as they say - more could be better.

In 2003, which they are comparing this draft to, having more picks from 11-29 is not a bad problem to have.

 

I like Devine, I wouldn't mind giving him a few extra chances to go fish.

[sicknfla]

If you were the Lightning and trapped in cap hell, would you trade down from 3 to 8 if the Sabres bought out Lecavalier for you?

Would it sweeten the pot if Lecavalier had pre-pagreed to re-sign with you at a very reasonable rate after Pegula handed him $40 million?

If you were the Avalanche or the Panthers, would you take 3 and 16 for 1 or 2?

 

Why do the lightning need us to bail them out with Lecavalier? Couldn't they just do it themselves? Their owner, Jeffery Vinik, may have more money than TP. Not sure how this entire amnesty thing works so maybe if he is traded the other team has more options involving contract. Help me out here because I am not understanding all the comments on how TPs money plays a big role here.

[Trettioåtta]

Why do the lightning need us to bail them out with Lecavalier? Couldn't they just do it themselves? Their owner, Jeffery Vinik, may have more money than TP. Not sure how this entire amnesty thing works so maybe if he is traded the other team has more options involving contract. Help me out here because I am not understanding all the comments on how TPs money plays a big role here.

 

In the amnesty buyout you still pay the player 2/3 of their salary (like a normal buyout), it just doesn't count against the cap. TP might be willing ti shell out $40 million on a buyout, whereas other owners (understandably) may not. This means either you keep Lecavalier on your roster earning nearly $8 million till he is 40 producing 40 points a year, or you trade him. But trading him will be expensive as he is a bit like Luongo - his contract is so bad that you will basically get nothing for him and probably have to pay someone (with picks) to take him

[Weave]

Why do the lightning need us to bail them out with Lecavalier? Couldn't they just do it themselves? Their owner, Jeffery Vinik, may have more money than TP. Not sure how this entire amnesty thing works so maybe if he is traded the other team has more options involving contract. Help me out here because I am not understanding all the comments on how TPs money plays a big role here.

 

TB certainly could bail themselves out of the Vinny contract but it would cost them alot of cash and they'd have nothing to show for it when done. I have no idea what their ownership situation is but I could see an owner not willing to spend that much dough to walk away from a useful player.

 

If another team (say Buffalo for instance) were to work a trade for Vinny with the intent of buying him out TB gets 2 things. 1. Cap relief and 2. an asset in return.

 

I have no idea whether TB wants Vinny off their roster though.

[sicknfla]

 

 

Fl certainly could bail themselves out of the Vinny contract but it would cost them alot of cash and they'd have nothing to show for it when done. I pophave no idea what their ownership situation is but I could see an owner not willing to spend that much dough to walk away from a useful player.

 

If another team (say Buffalo for instance) were to work a trade for Vinny with the intent of buying him out Fl gets 2 things. 1. Cap relief and 2. an asset in return.

 

I have no idea whether Fl wants Vinny off their roster though.

 

And that is my point. We just can't assume TB would be willing to give up assets so someone takes on his contract. The Lightning ownership is very strong. I see him stroking a check just as easily as TP without giving up assets. In all the talk I have heard down here I have never heard anything about TB looking for a trade partner for Lecavalier. Not saying they wouldn't - just have not heard it.

 

Keep in mind though that the Lightning with the 3rd pick generates as much buzz as the Sabres do with the 23rd pick.

[HopefulFuture]

Vanek, even with 1 year remaining on his current contract, will fetch nearly a kings ransom from some team. I have 0 concerns about the return for him in a trade either before or at the draft.

 

Miller on the other hand, will most likely have to be packaged to get a serious return in such a scenario imho.

 

I believe both are gone between now and next seasons trade deadline, and rightfully so. A rebuild is just that, a rebuild. Neither player need remain if they wish to compete with a contender in the next 3 to 5 seasons.

I don't put a great deal of stock in comments on teams not wanting our vets, any team that is well on their way with a rebuild already or are looking for serious firepower upfront in the top 6 would take Vanek I am sure.

[tom webster]

 

 

TB certainly could bail themselves out of the Vinny contract but it would cost them alot of cash and they'd have nothing to show for it when done. I have no idea what their ownership situation is but I could see an owner not willing to spend that much dough to walk away from a useful player.

 

If another team (say Buffalo for instance) were to work a trade for Vinny with the intent of buying him out TB gets 2 things. 1. Cap relief and 2. an asset in return.

 

I have no idea whether TB wants Vinny off their roster though.

 

But if Buffalo bought him out, he could resign with Tampa at a very discounted rate

[rakish]

 

 

Is he Crosby, or is he Turgeon?

 

 

Crosby had a PPG in his last year of the Q of 2.7

MacKinnon had a PPG in his last year of Q of 1.7

 

MacKinnon has numbers of a legitimate top 5 pick, there are things to be excited about. In looking at comparables I hadn't looked as far back as Turgeon. Turgeon had excellent PPG numbers, but had a number of factors against him. I have a series of blog posts coming that get into detail.

 

Picking first is really about energizing the base. If they trade that far up, you will know that marketing (Pegula or the lawyer that runs things, I forget his name) runs the show. Trading up part way might be worth it, I haven't quite decided.

 

What caught my ear with the Devine interview is that they are still talking about emulating Detroit.