2013 NHL Entry Draft: Buffalo Sabres Select...

[dudacek]

LGR, you and I went over the where to draft a defensive centre discussion earlier in the thread.

We clearly have differing views on the actual players, so I was trying to move this into an apples to apples discussion.

If you think Nurse is Suter, clearly you pick him ahead of Horvat.

My point was that I rate Nurse, Zadarov and Risto like the three I named above - they have upside, but haven't got there yet and may never - and I rate Horvat as Bergeron or O Reilly, guaranteed.

Given that as a baseline, I was wondering who you'd pick.

[Robviously]

Oh, and I also hope we move Vanek and Miller by/at the draft to secure some more picks/prospects for the rebuild. This seems like the obvious, appropriate move at this point, so obviously Regier will sit on his hands and wait until later.

[LGR4GM]

LGR, you and I went over the where to draft a defensive centre discussion earlier in the thread.

We clearly have differing views on the actual players, so I was trying to move this into an apples to apples discussion.

If you think Nurse is Suter, clearly you pick him ahead of Horvat.

My point was that I rate Nurse, Zadarov and Risto like the three I named above - they have upside, but haven't got there yet and may never - and I rate Horvat as Bergeron or O Reilly, guaranteed.

Given that as a baseline, I was wondering who you'd pick.

Hold on if I understand your theory proposition, you are saying IF Horvat is Bergeron/O'Reilly who do I pick at 8 if the Magnificent 7 are gone?

[X. Benedict]

Here's the RedLine Report for Horvat for those who haven't seen it.

 

http://www.redlinereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Horvat-Spotlight-Dec-12.pdf

[Weave]

Here's the RedLine Report for Horvat for those who haven't seen it.

 

http://www.redlinere...ight-Dec-12.pdf

 

That scouting report sure doesn't make Horvat sound like the next Bergeron. And "C" level skating means he's a bit of a project, not unlik e most kids projected to go outside of top 10.

 

LGR, you and I went over the where to draft a defensive centre discussion earlier in the thread.

We clearly have differing views on the actual players, so I was trying to move this into an apples to apples discussion.

If you think Nurse is Suter, clearly you pick him ahead of Horvat.

My point was that I rate Nurse, Zadarov and Risto like the three I named above - they have upside, but haven't got there yet and may never - and I rate Horvat as Bergeron or O Reilly, guaranteed.

Given that as a baseline, I was wondering who you'd pick.

 

Guaranteed? At that projected spot in the draft? Too strong of an opinion IMO.

[dudacek]

 

Hold on if I understand your theory proposition, you are saying IF Horvat is Bergeron/O'Reilly who do I pick at 8 if the Magnificent 7 are gone?

More or less.

Or, if you are drafting an NHL franchise for scratch and those five veterans I mention above are available, in what order would you rank them?

[LGR4GM]

More or less.

Or, if you are drafting an NHL franchise for scratch and those five veterans I mention above are available, in what order would you rank them?

So you want me to rank Bergeron, Myers, Johnson and Bogosian plus toss in Horvat?

 

okay:

Bergeron, Myers, Bogosian, Johnson, Horvat.

I have no one of knowing if Horvat makes the NHL but if he does he would be ranked higher obviously. If he was Bergeron quality than you can't use 3 first round defenders who are meh. You would have to go Karlsson etc...

[dudacek]

 

 

That scouting report sure doesn't make Horvat sound like the next Bergeron. And "C" level skating means he's a bit of a project, not unlik e most kids projected to go outside of top 10.

 

Guaranteed? At that projected spot in the draft? Too strong of an opinion IMO.

 

Fair, although he's not a bad skater from what Ive seen.

The point I am trying to make with Horvat is that similar players consistently get under-drafted because too much emphasis is put on measurables instead of how well these kids play hockey. Horvat just knows how to play hockey.

Scouts generally don't, and Philly didn't, but I take Mike Richards over Jeff Carter every time.

[X. Benedict]

Good article from the Redline guys this week in USA Today.'

http://m.usatoday.co...le/news/2388455

 

Some possibilites for the Sabres - Horvat - Domi - Erne

 

Domi is built like a bowling ball at 5-9, 194 pounds, and uses his speed and low center of gravity to gain leverage in battles and drive through checkers to get to net. Unlike his famous dad, he's a highly skilled offensive player with a blurry-fast release on an accurate shot that makes him supremely dangerous from the circles in. He's also a real opportunist around the net and can explode through even the slightest of openings.

At Red Line, we're huge fans of Horvat, and feel he doesn't get the love he deserves. His hard-driving style and aggressive play in the trenches open up operating room for his linemates, and he has great touch around the net himself. Horvat scored a bushel of hugely important goals in the playoffs, and is the type of player who is able to elevate his game a few levels at crunch time in big games. He also registers off the charts in personal character, and is a likely captain at the NHL level.

Adam Erne is a rugged winger with size and natural aggression. He attacks the net with power and dominates below the circles at the offensive end. He's a big-time hitter, yet has the hands and offensive finesse to beat defenders wide with speed and slick moves. Unfortunately, there are times when his attitude has beenquestioned, and some veterans on the Quebec Remparts felt he was a prima donna who let the publicity go to his head. So teams will do a thorough vetting process

[LGR4GM]

Fair, although he's not a bad skater from what Ive seen.

The point I am trying to make with Horvat is that similar players consistently get under-drafted because too much emphasis is put on measurables instead of how well these kids play hockey. Horvat just knows how to play hockey.

Scouts generally don't, and Philly didn't, but I take Mike Richards over Jeff Carter every time.

Which is why we trade up from 16 to 12/13 and take Horvat. In my Mock I had him going on high because I think he is really good but he is below that 1st round of defenders. A lot of options. If we ended up going Lindholm/Ristolainen at 8 then take Horvat at whatever I would love that draft.

 

All I can say is outside the Magnificent 7 things open way up in terms of who and where. If Ristolainen and Nurse were not in this draft I have Horvat in my top 2 of the 3rd tier right along side Shinkaruk.

 

2nd tier is Lindholm/Monahan, Ristolainen, and Nurse in that order.

[dudacek]

 

Which is why we trade up from 16 to 12/13 and take Horvat. In my Mock I had him going on high because I think he is really good but he is below that 1st round of defenders. A lot of options. If we ended up going Lindholm/Ristolainen at 8 then take Horvat at whatever I would love that draft.

 

Me too.

I knew would eventually agree on something. ;-)

[TrueBlueGED]

 

The problem with Ristolainen at 8 and Erne at 16 is that it won't really do much to change the longterm outlook for the team, IMO. Would you feel any closer to winning the Cup with that draft?

 

Adding any of the top six forwards would feel like a big shift for the franchise. This? Ristolainen sounds like a good defenseman and Erne sounds like every 1st round forward we've drafted the last 20 years (except Vanek): he'll never be a superstar, but he MIGHT be a guy like Pominville someday if we're lucky. Bleh.

 

If the top six forwards forwards are gone by the no.8 pick, I hope we trade up from 16, even if we ended up taking two defensemen. Seriously, if we ended up with Nurse and Ristolainen (or Zadarov), we'd at least have a really interesting blueline down the road with big, mean guys who can skate (especially if you think about a Myers reclamation project or McNabb).

 

I guess I don't see how Nurse and Ristolainen is appreciably better than Ristolainen and Erne. Erne has a power game we haven't drafted in the first round outside of Kassian.

[X. Benedict]

Which is why we trade up from 16 to 12/13 and take Horvat. In my Mock I had him going on high because I think he is really good but he is below that 1st round of defenders. A lot of options. If we ended up going Lindholm/Ristolainen at 8 then take Horvat at whatever I would love that draft.

 

Much like Zemgus. I think Horvat is a can't miss NHL player. I just don't think he's a first line player.

He's a great value 10-15.

 

It's hard to be at 8 and not come away with a top line/top pairing player though.

[TrueBlueGED]

LGR, you and I went over the where to draft a defensive centre discussion earlier in the thread.

We clearly have differing views on the actual players, so I was trying to move this into an apples to apples discussion.

If you think Nurse is Suter, clearly you pick him ahead of Horvat.

My point was that I rate Nurse, Zadarov and Risto like the three I named above - they have upside, but haven't got there yet and may never - and I rate Horvat as Bergeron or O Reilly, guaranteed.

Given that as a baseline, I was wondering who you'd pick.

 

.....can I has O'Reilly?

 

I'm not sure if the change in coaching and management alters his situation, but I'd like to maintain enough trade chips to make a run at him should the Avs want to move him when they can next year. I don't expect them to shop him, but stranger things have happened.

[26CornerBlitz]

.....can I has O'Reilly?

 

I'm not sure if the change in coaching and management alters his situation, but I'd like to maintain enough trade chips to make a run at him should the Avs want to move him when they can next year. I don't expect them to shop him, but stranger things have happened.

 

Check back in March of 2014.

[qwksndmonster]

I think we should trade with Dallas but not the 8th pick. 16 to Dallas for 10th. They also get Prospect and a 3rd round pick. Then we draft Elias Lindholm (he falls to us) and Rasmus Ristolainen. Now that prospect is someone midlevel and not a grigorenko or armia. Dallas needs forward help and defensive help and could use extra picks and a prospect. Also it puts them in the middle of that muddled 3rd tier of guys.

I like this.

Fucale is the top goalie prospect, but he's seen as a Cam Ward level goalie. Won a stanley cup but isn't really a top goalie in the league. Not near the top prospect in this draft.

Liger made a good point about certain teams becoming enamored with prospects. Fucale is a goaltender and his ceiling is nowhere near attainable knowledge at this point. I guarantee there's at least a couple GMs who view Fucale the way NS does.

 

Do at least two of these:

 

Miller 50% retained, 2nd to Flyers for Couturier, 11.

Stafford 33% retained, 2nd next year for 20s pick.

Vanek 50% retained to Oilers for 7, mid level prospect.

 

With those assets set yourself up to draft at least 3 of:

 

Lindholm, Monahan, Fucale, Erne, Barkov (Pipe dream), Horvat, Domi.

 

If Darcy is committing to suffering he could potentially set us up with a great haul.

[Robviously]

I guess I don't see how Nurse and Ristolainen is appreciably better than Ristolainen and Erne. Erne has a power game we haven't drafted in the first round outside of Kassian.

Erne isn't that big at all (6'1") and I'm pretty skeptical about a tough guy coming out of the QMJHL (to go along with skepticism that comes with all the scoring numbers that come from the QMJHL). Not excited about Erne at all, which probably means we'll draft him.

 

Nurse has a ton more upside and just had a monster year in a better league.

[TrueBlueGED]

Erne isn't that big at all (6'1") and I'm pretty skeptical about a tough guy coming out of the QMJHL (to go along with skepticism that comes with all the scoring numbers that come from the QMJHL). Not excited about Erne at all, which probably means we'll draft him.

 

Nurse has a ton more upside and just had a monster year in a better league.

 

He's the same size as Dustin Brown, and if we should know anything by now, it's if the size is adequate then the attitude matters more. If he has a natural tendency to drive the net, then I don't think that's a product of a softer league. That said, I know Q offense tends to translate less well than other leagues.

 

Oh, and because you don't like him, not only will we draft Erne, but he'll be really good and you'll have to hear praises of Regier for years to come :P

[Robviously]

He's the same size as Dustin Brown, and if we should know anything by now, it's if the size is adequate then the attitude matters more. If he has a natural tendency to drive the net, then I don't think that's a product of a softer league. That said, I know Q offense tends to translate less well than other leagues.

It could be. He's not exactly in a league where you get your head taken off if you go to the dangerous parts of the ice.

 

I also haven't heard anything special about his leadership skills and the write-up X just posted up above makes him sound like he might even be a head case. I'm not seeing Dustin Brown here.

 

After the Magnificent Seven (congrats to whoever coined that term in this thread), I like Nurse/Ristolainen/Zadarov, Horvat, Wennberg, Pulock, and Shinkaruk. So worst case scenario is we get one of those defensemen at 8 and then all the rest are gone by 16. At that point, maybe Kerby Rychel from Windsor? The Sabres picks are weird because (at 8 and 16) each one seems to come after a group of good prospects should be gone and another tier begins.

 

Plus a lot of this depends on what the Sabres can get from moving Miller and Vanek. If we can pry Strome out of Long Island (or a comparable prospect from somewhere else), that'd give the Sabres some flexibility.

[darksabre]

Good article from the Redline guys this week in USA Today.'

http://m.usatoday.co...le/news/2388455

 

Some possibilites for the Sabres - Horvat - Domi - Erne

 

Domi is built like a bowling ball at 5-9, 194 pounds, and uses his speed and low center of gravity to gain leverage in battles and drive through checkers to get to net. Unlike his famous dad, he's a highly skilled offensive player with a blurry-fast release on an accurate shot that makes him supremely dangerous from the circles in. He's also a real opportunist around the net and can explode through even the slightest of openings.

At Red Line, we're huge fans of Horvat, and feel he doesn't get the love he deserves. His hard-driving style and aggressive play in the trenches open up operating room for his linemates, and he has great touch around the net himself. Horvat scored a bushel of hugely important goals in the playoffs, and is the type of player who is able to elevate his game a few levels at crunch time in big games. He also registers off the charts in personal character, and is a likely captain at the NHL level.

Adam Erne is a rugged winger with size and natural aggression. He attacks the net with power and dominates below the circles at the offensive end. He's a big-time hitter, yet has the hands and offensive finesse to beat defenders wide with speed and slick moves. Unfortunately, there are times when his attitude has beenquestioned, and some veterans on the Quebec Remparts felt he was a prima donna who let the publicity go to his head. So teams will do a thorough vetting process

 

Do you know how much fun we could have with the Leafs, the beloved Domi name being used against them by the SABRES???

[26CornerBlitz]

Interesting interview with Oilers' GM Craig MacTavish:

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

Much like Zemgus. I think Horvat is a can't miss NHL player. I just don't think he's a first line player.

He's a great value 10-15.

 

It's hard to be at 8 and not come away with a top line/top pairing player though.

 

I can agree with this. I'm really hoping we unload Miller and a couple of seconds to secure 1-2 more first rounders. Miller for a first doesn't seem out of line. Move both second rounders and maybe one next to secure another first. It would be huge having 4 first rounders. I don't even mind if Miller to Philly for their first rounder.

[Weave]

 

It's hard to be at 8 and not come away with a top line/top pairing player though.

 

This about sums it up for me. We've got a pick at 8. There will be players with top line/ top pair potential when its our turn at the podium. Top line/top pair talent is hard to come by. It is foolish to pass up a chance at them.

[bunomatic]

I can agree with this. I'm really hoping we unload Miller and a couple of seconds to secure 1-2 more first rounders. Miller for a first doesn't seem out of line. Move both second rounders and maybe one next to secure another first. It would be huge having 4 first rounders. I don't even mind if Miller to Philly for their first rounder.

Miller to Philly was what I said to my Philly fan friend last night. Can't be afraid to trade within our conference when we probably don't compete for a few years anyways. Chances are he moves out west at some point after that also.

[SabresBillsFan]

Miller to Philly was what I said to my Philly fan friend last night. Can't be afraid to trade within our conference when we probably don't compete for a few years anyways. Chances are he moves out west at some point after that also.

 

Totally agree that we won't compete for a few years anyways so moving Miller for their #1 makes sense.