2013 NHL Entry Draft: Buffalo Sabres Select...

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

Picking Gauthier in the first round for the Sabres would be a mistake. We need to draft for talent and drive, not size. If Lindholm is available when we pick and they chose to go with a 3rd line center because he is tall I will not be too thrilled.

[deluca67]

They certainly do exist. That doesn't make your evaluation of this year's draft prospects anywhere near correct. 1-2 full tiers of talent is worth significantly more than 2 inches of height and 20 pounds of weight.

It doesn't make it wrong.

 

I'm looking at this draft class with one thing in mind, the Buffalo Sabres. Where they are, where they have been, where they are going and most importantly where I hope the Sabres end up. What the Sabres need are players with talent. size and toughness. Because most of the Sabres "skill" guys are smaller and/or softer. This years draft is important. They can come away with some real size and talent with picks #8 & #16.

 

Picking Gauthier in the first round for the Sabres would be a mistake. We need to draft for talent and drive, not size. If Lindholm is available when we pick and they chose to go with a 3rd line center because he is tall I will not be too thrilled.

I haven't seen any projection of Gauthier to indicate his ceiling is that of a third line center. He is certainly a top 20 prospect and would be a solid pick at #16 if he makes it to the Sabres at #16.

[TrueBlueGED]

It doesn't make it wrong.

 

I'm looking at this draft class with one thing in mind, the Buffalo Sabres. Where they are, where they have been, where they are going and most importantly where I hope the Sabres end up. What the Sabres need are players with talent. size and toughness. Because most of the Sabres "skill" guys are smaller and/or softer. This years draft is important. They can come away with some real size and talent with picks #8 & #16.

 

The problem with the Sabres "skill players" isn't that they're smaller or softer, it's that they aren't particularly skilled. This team currently has one first line player, and it's at least a coin flip as to whether he'll be here at the start of next season. When your team doesn't have any first line talent, focusing too much on an idealized height/weight combination is insanity. You don't go from a potential all-star down to a potential average top-6 player because of a couple inches of height and two dozen pounds. Again, we're not talking about a player who is the size of Gerbe here.

[qwksndmonster]

I change my mind. I don't think Darcy can get Barkov, so I think we end up with Valery and Lindholm.

[LGR4GM]

An ideal draft for the Sabres, IMO, is Monahan at #8 and Gauthier at #16. You can never have too many centers. I agree, Gauthier isn't "value" at #8 as the draftniks refer to it. If Monahan is gone the Sabres should have a shot at one of Nurse, Ristolainen or Zardorov. I have no problem with the Sabres going blueline at #8.

 

 

He would need to be a couple tiers above the 1-2 tiers you mentioned for me to be willing to forgo the size. We all have out preferences. I'm ready for a bigger, talented and tougher Buffalo Sabres team.

Lindholm is noted in every single draft/prospect report for not being afraid to be physical and go to the dirty areas. As for a blue liner at 8, Ristolainen is noted for being physical and "punishing" in his own end. He is probably the most NHL ready guy outside of Jones. He has decent size at 6'2" 205lbs and will no doubt be able to add some to that. He has a good slap shot and is a PP quarterback. I think with how good some of the defensmen are (Nurse, Ristolainen, and Zadarov) you will see 1 of those go in the top 7.

 

Picking Gauthier in the first round for the Sabres would be a mistake. We need to draft for talent and drive, not size. If Lindholm is available when we pick and they chose to go with a 3rd line center because he is tall I will not be too thrilled.

Agreed. Lindholm is really good and he plays in Sweden's Elite League where he got 30pts in 48games as an 18yr old. Now that is really quite impressive and I would have no doubt that if Lindholm is available, Darcy Regier will be sprinting up the isle to draft him.

 

"Even after a cursory meeting, one can tell Lindholm is mature beyond his years. Even Ronnberg noted he’s been a leader on the Swedish team and the pro work ethic he learned in the elite league rubbed off on his teammates."

http://sports.yahoo....-184824712.html

 

"A key asset is that Lindholm is unafraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice to make plays though, and loves to finish his checks."

http://lastwordonspo...ayer-profile-5/

 

 

It doesn't make it wrong.

 

I'm looking at this draft class with one thing in mind, the Buffalo Sabres. Where they are, where they have been, where they are going and most importantly where I hope the Sabres end up. What the Sabres need are players with talent. size and toughness. Because most of the Sabres "skill" guys are smaller and/or softer. This years draft is important. They can come away with some real size and talent with picks #8 & #16.

Lindholm is real talent and size. Monahan is talent and size. Wennberg is talent and size. Gauthier is Girgensons or is projected to be similar, where as 2 of those other 3 guys are projected to have higher ceilings than CoHo who is 6' 194lbs and only getting better with age.

[deluca67]

The problem with the Sabres "skill players" isn't that they're smaller or softer, it's that they aren't particularly skilled. This team currently has one first line player, and it's at least a coin flip as to whether he'll be here at the start of next season. When your team doesn't have any first line talent, focusing too much on an idealized height/weight combination is insanity. You don't go from a potential all-star down to a potential average top-6 player because of a couple inches of height and two dozen pounds. Again, we're not talking about a player who is the size of Gerbe here.

When you developing an identity for the franchise you have to focus on players that fit what you want the finished product to be. It is clear we have different opinions on what the final product shoudl look like.

[...]

 

 

The problem with the Sabres "skill players" isn't that they're smaller or softer, it's that they aren't particularly skilled. This team currently has one first line player, and it's at least a coin flip as to whether he'll be here at the start of next season. When your team doesn't have any first line talent, focusing too much on an idealized height/weight combination is insanity. You don't go from a potential all-star down to a potential average top-6 player because of a couple inches of height and two dozen pounds. Again, we're not talking about a player who is the size of Gerbe here.

 

I don't know, man, the way this conversation is playing out, I'm hearing deluca loud and clear. If the talent level is that far above and beyond, okay, I may look the other way when it comes to size and toughness (which I, personally, can interchange with a bunch of intangibles but "toughness" is as adequate a summary as anything else). However, if you're banking on ONE PICK to save your team, that seems far more insane than making the right choices - instead of compromising because the draft gives you the chance to compromise.

 

In other words, if the Sabres are rebuilding, to hell with it, rebuild CORRECTLY; do not compromise the objective because you have the chance to. What teams moving on to the second round this year are small-ish teams? Which teams got beat? The teams that got beat may average 6' or so, but are supposedly more skill than heart/toughness. Sorry, I have no stats, just my eyes for that.

 

As I see it, the only way to get to one or more Stanley Cups is with the right mix of big, talented, tough players. Period.

[deluca67]

Lindholm is noted in every single draft/prospect report for not being afraid to be physical and go to the dirty areas. As for a blue liner at 8, Ristolainen is noted for being physical and "punishing" in his own end. He is probably the most NHL ready guy outside of Jones. He has decent size at 6'2" 205lbs and will no doubt be able to add some to that. He has a good slap shot and is a PP quarterback. I think with how good some of the defensmen are (Nurse, Ristolainen, and Zadarov) you will see 1 of those go in the top 7.

 

 

Agreed. Lindholm is really good and he plays in Sweden's Elite League where he got 30pts in 48games as an 18yr old. Now that is really quite impressive and I would have no doubt that if Lindholm is available, Darcy Regier will be sprinting up the isle to draft him.

 

"Even after a cursory meeting, one can tell Lindholm is mature beyond his years. Even Ronnberg noted he’s been a leader on the Swedish team and the pro work ethic he learned in the elite league rubbed off on his teammates."

http://sports.yahoo....-184824712.html

 

"A key asset is that Lindholm is unafraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice to make plays though, and loves to finish his checks."

http://lastwordonspo...ayer-profile-5/

 

 

 

Lindholm is real talent and size. Wennberg is talent and size. Monahan is talent and size. Gauthier is Girgensons or is projected to be similar. Where as 2 of those other 3 guys are projected to have higher ceilings that CoHo who is 6' and only getting better with age.

Good stuff!

 

Say you are running the Sabres draft, you tried to move up and the cost is just unrealistic. So you are sitting there at #8. If Columbus calls and offers #14 & #23 for the #8, do you take the deal? I think I would.

[qwksndmonster]

Why are you guys still blaming the Sabres suckitude on being small/not having enough grit? They had players that didn't have the right temperament, they didn't have enough grit, and they didn't have enough talent. This season we had more grit and even less talent. I agree that the grit level isn't where it should be, but you need to go BPA for top end talent in the draft, because acquiring it otherwise is not easy.

[...]

Why are you guys still blaming the Sabres suckitude on being small/not having enough grit? They had players that didn't have the right temperament, they didn't have enough grit, and they didn't have enough talent. This season we had more grit and even less talent. I agree that the grit level isn't where it should be, but you need to go BPA for top end talent in the draft, because acquiring it otherwise is not easy.

 

You and TrueBlue are completely overlooking something very important:

 

Just because we may be advocating size,heart/toughness, doesn't mean we (or, at least, I or me) are willing to sacrifice talent. The words roll out in one, complete phrase to create the proper mental image: SIZE-TOUGHNESS-TALENT. So, it's the combination that is important...you seem to be focusing in on one or two factors of the combination which is wrong.

 

The right balance of SIZE-TOUGHNESS/HEART-TALENT per player is critically important here. The Sabres need to take their time and rebuild the roster correctly, not lose focus because a small, amateur player has so-called "elite-level" stats.

[deluca67]

Why are you guys still blaming the Sabres suckitude on being small/not having enough grit? They had players that didn't have the right temperament, they didn't have enough grit, and they didn't have enough talent. This season we had more grit and even less talent. I agree that the grit level isn't where it should be, but you need to go BPA for top end talent in the draft, because acquiring it otherwise is not easy.

You can't hold this season as any standard of building a team. There is a world of difference between building a tougher/grittier team and dressing a John Scott. As Sizzle said above, it's about building correctly. Outside of the top three in this draft, there isn't a huge drop off in talent in the rest of the first round. It's about infusing size, toughness and talent into the organization at the base level, the foundation. Once the foundation is in place, as GoDD said, you can supplement with additional talent at that point.

 

You and TrueBlue are completely overlooking something very important:

 

Just because we may be advocating size,heart/toughness, doesn't mean we (or, at least, I or me) are willing to sacrifice talent. The words roll out in one, complete phrase to create the proper mental image: SIZE-TOUGHNESS-TALENT. So, it's the combination that is important...you seem to be focusing in on one or two factors of the combination which is wrong.

 

The right balance of SIZE-TOUGHNESS/HEART-TALENT per player is critically important here. The Sabres need to take their time and rebuild the roster correctly, not lose focus because a small, amateur player has so-called "elite-level" stats.

Exactly.

 

It's easier to find balance within the roster if the players you add are themselves balanced.

[qwksndmonster]

You and TrueBlue are completely overlooking something very important:

 

Just because we may be advocating size,heart/toughness, doesn't mean we (or, at least, I or me) are willing to sacrifice talent. The words roll out in one, complete phrase to create the proper mental image: SIZE-TOUGHNESS-TALENT. So, it's the combination that is important...you seem to be focusing in on one or two factors of the combination which is wrong.

 

The right balance of SIZE-TOUGHNESS/HEART-TALENT per player is critically important here. The Sabres need to take their time and rebuild the roster correctly, not lose focus because a small, amateur player has so-called "elite-level" stats.

Do you know anything about the players in the upcoming drafts' toughness or heart? I certainly don't. I definitely don't think DeLuca does. Basing who to draft on height, weight, and hit stats is dumb. I'm not sure what point I overlooked, as I'm focusing on what players to draft, not building an entire roster. To the bolded: The player in question was Lindholm, who is not small or amateur.

You can't hold this season as any standard of building a team. There is a world of difference between building a tougher/grittier team and dressing a John Scott. As Sizzle said above, it's about building correctly. Outside of the top three in this draft, there isn't a huge drop off in talent in the rest of the first round. It's about infusing size, toughness and talent into the organization at the base level, the foundation. Once the foundation is in place, as GoDD said, you can supplement with additional talent at that point.

You can find toughness and skill guys later in the first round (Girgensons). Later first round picks are way easier to come by. Talent is infinitely more important than size and hit stats.

[LGR4GM]

First, it is good to be back and I you guys are making me do more and more draft research, loving it.

When you developing an identity for the franchise you have to focus on players that fit what you want the finished product to be. It is clear we have different opinions on what the final product should look like.

Agreed. I think hard working guys like CoHo and Ott and Weber are what we are going for. Hard work is something Regier and Ott have mentioned several times. We need high talent with high work effort.

 

Good stuff!

 

Say you are running the Sabres draft, you tried to move up and the cost is just unrealistic. So you are sitting there at #8. If Columbus calls and offers #14 & #23 for the #8, do you take the deal? I think I would.

No, I do not trade down. What I would do if Columbus calls is decline. We trade up, Darcy has suggested that is where his head is at. I have no desire to miss out on the guys who could/should be around at 8.

 

You and TrueBlue are completely overlooking something very important:

 

Just because we may be advocating size,heart/toughness, doesn't mean we (or, at least, I or me) are willing to sacrifice talent. The words roll out in one, complete phrase to create the proper mental image: SIZE-TOUGHNESS-TALENT. So, it's the combination that is important...you seem to be focusing in on one or two factors of the combination which is wrong.

 

The right balance of SIZE-TOUGHNESS/HEART-TALENT per player is critically important here. The Sabres need to take their time and rebuild the roster correctly, not lose focus because a small, amateur player has so-called "elite-level" stats.

The issue I have with this is the order, Talent-Size-Toughness. Lindholm and Monahan are Talented guys with size who are not afraid to go to the dirty areas and battle. The other thing we lack is speed. That is why I like Lindholm, Monahan and Wennberg. All three have decent to good speed. We were rather slow last year. Also with regards to size, we are now arguing over 10-20lbs and 1-2inches which in reality over the course of season will not off balance being more skilled.

 

If I am drafting at 8th my draft board is Monahan, Lindholm, Ristolainen. At 16th my board is Wennberg, Zadarov, Ristolainen (if he falls, hes a RHD)

 

You can't hold this season as any standard of building a team. There is a world of difference between building a tougher/grittier team and dressing a John Scott. As Sizzle said above, it's about building correctly. Outside of the top three in this draft, there isn't a huge drop off in talent in the rest of the first round. It's about infusing size, toughness and talent into the organization at the base level, the foundation. Once the foundation is in place, as GoDD said, you can supplement with additional talent at that point.

Exactly.

 

It's easier to find balance within the roster if the players you add are themselves balanced.

This is not true at all. There is tier two which is roughly 4-9 and then tier 3 which is roughly 10-18. These have discint differences from the top 3 guys and you could even include Barkov and Nichushkins in there. So spots 6-10 have some really high level players that are far above the bottom 20 of the first round.

 

Lindholm, Monahan are in that 6-10 bubble.

[deluca67]

Do you know anything about the players in the upcoming drafts' toughness or heart? I certainly don't. I definitely don't think DeLuca does. Basing who to draft on height, weight, and hit stats is dumb. I'm not sure what point I overlooked, as I'm focusing on what players to draft, not building an entire roster. To the bolded: The player in question was Lindholm, who is not small or amateur.

 

You can find toughness and skill guys later in the first round (Girgensons). Later first round picks are way easier to come by. Talent is infinitely more important than size and hit stats.

You type this and you have the nerve to refer to anything that someone else has to say as "dumb."

[...]

This is not true at all. There is tier two which is roughly 4-9 and then tier 3 which is roughly 10-18. These have discint differences from the top 3 guys and you could even include Barkov and Nichushkins in there. So spots 6-10 have some really high level players that are far above the bottom 20 of the first round.

 

Lindholm, Monahan are in that 6-10 bubble.

 

Then the Sabres should try and find a way to pick twice in that 6-10 bubble. I would be alright with that. Then still pick 16 and acquire another pick in the lower first round. I see no reason to target any higher and waste assets.

[qwksndmonster]

You type this and you have the nerve to refer to anything that someone else has to say as "dumb."

Because it's so hard to build rosters around top end talent. I will always have the nerve to call the things you say dumb.

[LGR4GM]

Do you know anything about the players in the upcoming drafts' toughness or heart? I certainly don't. I definitely don't think DeLuca does. Basing who to draft on height, weight, and hit stats is dumb. To the bolded: The player in question was Lindholm, who is not small or amateur.

Lindholm as I have stated at least 5 times in the last few posts is considered a guy who loves to compete. People who love to compete do not like to lose. Monahan played injured on a team that was already eliminated from the the playoffs because he didn't want to let his team down. If those things don't equal heart, ###### I don't know what is.

[...]

 

You type this and you have the nerve to refer to anything that someone else has to say as "dumb."

 

Good pick up...targeting individual players in the draft and on the market is what put the Sabres in the position they're in. They need to focus on the entire roster and what works where with whom and why.

[LGR4GM]

Then the Sabres should try and find a way to pick twice in that 6-10 bubble. I would be alright with that. Then still pick 16 and acquire another pick in the lower first round. I see no reason to target any higher and waste assets.

I agree that they absolutely should try to move up to 9/10 if at all possible.

[...]

 

Because it's so hard to build rosters around top end talent. I will always have the nerve to call the things you say dumb.

 

 

Miller and Vanek are not top end talent?

[LGR4GM]

Good pick up...targeting individual players in the draft and on the market is what put the Sabres in the position they're in. They need to focus on the entire roster and what works where with whom and why.

I would agree and I don't think Gauthier works with this roster but the 3 players I keep saying over and over and over, they work. Monahan with Foligno or Armia... I need to change my pants for that.

[X. Benedict]

 

I haven't seen any projection of Gauthier to indicate his ceiling is that of a third line center. He is certainly a top 20 prospect and would be a solid pick at #16 if he makes it to the Sabres at #16.

Most projections I've seen have Gauthier as a defensive center (3rd liner) with some offensive upside. His skating and faceoffs are suspect. I don't see him top 20 unless he has a monster combine or something. I haven't seen anyone project him as a top 6 player yet.

[deluca67]

Because it's so hard to build rosters around top end talent. I will always have the nerve to call the things you say dumb.

Don't most teams do exactly that and fail? If you don't have balance you're done before you even get started.

[LGR4GM]

Don't most teams do exactly that and fail? If you don't have balance you're done before you even get started.

Okay but do the Buffalo Sabres have enough talent to succeed? If you go into this draft going for size aren't you off balancing the very thing you are arguing about, team chemistry?

[qwksndmonster]

Good pick up...targeting individual players in the draft and on the market is what put the Sabres in the position they're in. They need to focus on the entire roster and what works where with whom and why.

The draft is a crap shoot, so you pick the player that you think can be great. You don't pick someone who has less talent because they don't "fit the mold." Targeting individual players in the top of the 1st is definitely what you do. You have the second half of the first round, rounds 2-7, trades, and FA to build an entire roster.

Miller and Vanek are not top end talent?

Yup. And Darcy failed miserably to build a roster around them.

 

EDIT: By yup, I meant that they are top end talent.