The other sports thread

[Taro T]

Watching a little bit of the Columbia - Spain women's soccer QF.  What's interesting, at least IMHO, is the stadium isn't even 1/4 full.  (The lower bowl is ~1/4 (MAYBE 1/3) full and there isn't anyone at all in the upper decks.)  Spain is literally right next to France and hardly anyone made the trip on a Saturday.  Would've expected more in attendance.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Also, 

 

How in the world are we allowing actual Men, with XY chromosomes, that went through full puberty (Also failed gender testing previously) into the actual Olympics. They're beating the crap out of women and it's frankly disgusting to watch. As if I needed more of a reason to dislike the Games in general. 

If you wanna be liberal or "woke" or whatever the word may be these days, then ok. But this is just absurd and getting worse every year. At this point, just make every sport Co-Ed and call it a day. It will at least being some honor back to some of these medals. 

[#freejame]

40 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Also, 

 

How in the world are we allowing actual Men, with XY chromosomes, that went through full puberty (Also failed gender testing previously) into the actual Olympics. They're beating the crap out of women and it's frankly disgusting to watch. As if I needed more of a reason to dislike the Games in general. 

If you wanna be liberal or "woke" or whatever the word may be these days, then ok. But this is just absurd and getting worse every year. At this point, just make every sport Co-Ed and call it a day. It will at least being some honor back to some of these medals. 

Nowhere legitimate has reported that either boxers are anything other than women and women from birth. Not only that, but other women have beaten both boxers in competition before. Plenty of men have gotten the ***** kicked out of them in boxing in ways that have been disgusting to watch and yet the show goes on. I’m no Mr. Wokey pants but this controversy is fully absurd, especially when it more or less stems from a Russian boxing federation in poor international standing.

The Italian woman who initially spoke out should be ashamed of herself as an athlete and fighter. You’re competing in boxing and you quit because someone punched you too hard? Find a new game. 

[That Aud Smell]

43 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Also, 

 

How in the world are we allowing actual Men, with XY chromosomes, that went through full puberty (Also failed gender testing previously) into the actual Olympics. They're beating the crap out of women and it's frankly disgusting to watch. As if I needed more of a reason to dislike the Games in general. 

If you wanna be liberal or "woke" or whatever the word may be these days, then ok. But this is just absurd and getting worse every year. At this point, just make every sport Co-Ed and call it a day. It will at least being some honor back to some of these medals. 

I find these issues to be enormously complex and not amenable to simple declarations. The athlete who’s been the main punching bag (if you will) on this — Khelif — was born with (and presumably still has) female anatomical parts. She has some unusual hormonal condition, evidently. Again, a complicated situation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/08/02/imane-khelif-fact-check-olympic-boxer/74645341007/

[Weave]

34 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I find these issues to be enormously complex and not amenable to simple declarations. The athlete who’s been the main punching bag (if you will) on this — Khelif — was born with (and presumably still has) female anatomical parts. She has some unusual hormonal condition, evidently. Again, a complicated situation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/08/02/imane-khelif-fact-check-olympic-boxer/74645341007/

It is easier to assume everything is simple and judge.

[Wyldnwoody44]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

It is easier to assume everything is simple and judge.

Y chromosomes are still Y chromosomes. I use science as a backup. So yeah, simple.... XX and XY are different things. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Y chromosomes are still Y chromosomes. I use science as a backup. So yeah, simple.... XX and XY are different things. 

Except that wasn’t the issue in this case.

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

Except that wasn’t the issue in this case.

Except in this case, yes it is.  Apparently Kehlif was born XY but with female genitalia.  Which, while extremely rare, sometimes happens.

[#freejame]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Except in this case, yes it is.  Apparently Kehlif was born XY but with female genitalia.  Which, while extremely rare, sometimes happens.

This is according to a Russian boxing federation that has not provided any evidence or test result and came after she defeated a Russian boxer. This could certainly be the case, but for this to be playing out in the open in what is probably the biggest event of her lifetime is a shame for her. 

[That Aud Smell]

44 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Except in this case, yes it is.  Apparently Kehlif was born XY but with female genitalia.  Which, while extremely rare, sometimes happens.

Is it? Was she? That’s far from clear at this point.

In any case, the situation with this athlete is not a simple one.

Relatedly, I was watching the France women play … was it Brazil? In soccer. That French centreback is very masculine looking (whatever that means). And fearsome to play against, I am sure. But she’s a woman. I recall a rumour surrounding her during the last World Cup that her testosterone levels tested outside of some prescribed limit for “women.”

This stuff is confusing as hell.

 

39 minutes ago, #freejame said:

This is according to a Russian boxing federation 

Testing from a Russian federation, you say?

[That Aud Smell]

Also: How should we set an over/under on this thread getting locked/posts getting moved? I’ll put it at 5.5 additional posts beyond this one (it’s a Sunday after all - mods may be away).

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Except that wasn’t the issue in this case.

It was, but you're right in the aspect that it's not the same as the college swimmer issue and other countless ones that have been happening. But still brings to question  

 

And I do find it funny that a boxer quit for getting hit too hard. 

 

I don't have a problem with a boy/girl thinking they are something else, my issue lies in the spirit of gamesmanship around it all. 

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Also: How should we set an over/under on this thread getting locked/posts getting moved? I’ll put it at 5.5 additional posts beyond this one (it’s a Sunday after all - mods may be away).

Idk, it has been semi-civil considering 

[JujuFish]

Just now, Wyldnwoody44 said:

It was, but you're right in the aspect that it's not the same as the college swimmer issue and other countless ones that have been happening. But still brings to question  

 

And I do find it funny that a boxer quit for getting hit too hard. 

 

I don't have a problem with a boy/girl thinking they are something else, my issue lies in the spirit of gamesmanship around it all. 

Idk, it has been semi-civil considering 

 

I'm going to assume you haven't actually looked into the story. The only person who is saying that Imane Khelif failed a gender test is Umar Kremlev, the president of the IBA. Kremlev is Russian. These claims didn't happen until after Khelif beat a then-undefeated Russian boxer. After this supposed failed test, about which no actual evidence has been offered other than Kremlev's word, the Russian boxer had her undefeated streak restored.

I know who I believe in this scenario, and it's not the guy from Russia protecting a Russian boxer.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, #freejame said:

This is according to a Russian boxing federation that has not provided any evidence or test result and came after she defeated a Russian boxer. This could certainly be the case, but for this to be playing out in the open in what is probably the biggest event of her lifetime is a shame for her. 

These don't seem to be from the Russian boxing federation.  The IBA is the organization that banned Kehlif for the XY chromosome issue.  (Not sure why the links aren't embedding.  Sorry.)  It appears you are considering the IBA to be a/the Russian boxing federation due to the head of it's ties to Russia and Gazprom; but personally consider that to be a bit of a misrepresentation as it includes approximately 200 national boxing federations under it's umbrella.

 

https://reduxx.info/international-olympic-committee-was-warned-about-male-boxers-world-boxing-organization-vice-president-says/

 

https://www.newsweek.com/olympic-boxer-lin-yu-ting-win-imane-khelif-1933862

 

Tried to find out what the IOC testing is to determine if an athlete qualifies as female.  Have not been able to track that down.  The IOC's boxing rules for the Paris Olympics says they're pretty much going with the rules from the "2020" Tokyo Olympics.  Looking at the boxing medical procedures, it states that the medical team "In the pre-Bout Medical Examinations:
– Boxer identifies himself/herself – the doctor checks the Boxer’s Record Book name and photo with the Boxer’s 
face and accreditation card."

That is the closest that this kid could find for how gender is assessed in the "Qualification System" document, the "Event Regulations" document, and the "Boxing Unit Medical Rules" document.  There is nothing in any of that which states how gender is assessed for the games.  It seems that the Olympics do not perform a DNA level test to assess whether a competitor should be in the male or female bracket.  The IBA apparently did use that level of testing.

Interestingly, and tangential to this discussion, there is no international boxing federation recognized to run the Olympic boxing program at present.  The WBO is trying to get accredited and if they don't succeed soon, boxing will be removed from the Olympics for 2028.  Presumably so they can avoid this sort of controversy and the general corruption controversies so often associated with boxing.

[shrader]

They can’t/don’t test gender. They test sex.

[Weave]

https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-boxing-gender-7b171980b05bcef2117a7615f212eba9

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, Weave said:

https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-boxing-gender-7b171980b05bcef2117a7615f212eba9

Thanks for that.  But 2 items stand out from that story.  The reporter states the boxer failed "unspecified eligibility tests."  But the IBA states that DNA tests of the boxer showed the boxer has a Y chromosome which would make that boxer male genetically and ineligible to compete in women's events.

The article also states "Khelif declined to answer when asked whether she had undergone tests other than doping tests, saying she didn’t want to talk about it."  If the boxer has undergone other tests that do clear her name, why not publicly clear her name?

 

[Weave]

11 hours ago, Taro T said:

Thanks for that.  But 2 items stand out from that story.  The reporter states the boxer failed "unspecified eligibility tests."  But the IBA states that DNA tests of the boxer showed the boxer has a Y chromosome which would make that boxer male genetically and ineligible to compete in women's events.

The article also states "Khelif declined to answer when asked whether she had undergone tests other than doping tests, saying she didn’t want to talk about it."  If the boxer has undergone other tests that do clear her name, why not publicly clear her name?

 

If you had a medical anomaly that caused a ***** ton if controversy and abuse, especially one surrounding your most personal traits how willing would you be to publicly talk about it?

And the IBA was permanently banned by the Olympics, how bad of an organization do you have to be to get permanently banned?

Edited August 5 by Weave

[Night Train]

Back to the Olympics. The track and field events are amazing.  USA  Lyles won the gold in the 100M by 2 inches. 

France having a great Olympics for a host country. 

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, Night Train said:

Back to the Olympics. The track and field events are amazing.  USA  Lyles won the gold in the 100M by 2 inches. 

France having a great Olympics for a host country. 

I wish articles would explain that it’s whoever’s chest crosses the line first. I had a hard time figuring out how Lyles won. Great race. That French swimmer (Leon Marchand I think) has been incredible to watch. I was happy to see the Italian sponsored by Parmesan cheese won gold after Biles fell. Great finish to women’s cycling too. 

I usually poo-poo the summer games but with the time difference I’ve been really enjoying watching in the mornings and afternoons. 

[That Aud Smell]

51 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Back to the Olympics. The track and field events are amazing.  USA  Lyles won the gold in the 100M by 2 inches. 

45 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I wish articles would explain that it’s whoever’s chest crosses the line first. I had a hard time figuring out how Lyles won. Great race.

I wish I could find the version of this photo that I saw on Twitter - I can't be bothered to go back and dig for it now - where there was a line drawn to the winning US runner with a caption: FASTEST MAN IN THE WORLD - and then a line drawn to the runner in green (Jamaica?) with a caption: DID NOT MEDAL.

[Night Train]

I like a lot of the less popular events they rarely show.. Handball was outstanding. Archery, table tennis (ping pong), badminton  equestrian. Boxing wasn't shown much at all, even with the extra Olympic channels I receive with FIOS. Caught some. 

Don't get into gymnastics, soccer, basketball,water polo and beach volleyball, which they showed a ton of. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

Back to the Olympics. The track and field events are amazing.  USA  Lyles won the gold in the 100M by 2 inches. 

France having a great Olympics for a host country. 

Someone who lost by more than 2 inches 

 

[Weave]

Oww

[inkman]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Oww

I’m guessing he’ll have some volunteers to console him.