off topic Sabres HARBORcenter updates

[sabills]

Sabres have made their proposal for the so called 'Webster Block', AKA the parking lot in front of the FN Center.

 

http://www.buffalone... proposal (pdf)

 

They're up against Carl Paladino, who also made a bid on the project. Here's his design.

Edited May 6, 2014 by sabills

[Two or less]

wow.

[spndnchz]

Those apartments should have a great view of the skyway.

[wjag]

Those apartments should have a great view of the skyway.

 

Yeah, it's conveniently missing from that artist rendering...

[sabres13]

WOW that center would be Awesome!!! IF it gets built i can drink at the game and have a place to stay at night.

 

Also this would generate business and familys to move to Buffalo. In turn maybe lure some potential FA. :thumbsup:

[IKnowPhysics]

Love the Sabres' proposal. Total investment at 65% of what it cost to build FNC (in 2012 dollars).

 

I think Paladino's facade choices match the neighborhood better, but they also feel less distinctive than the Sabres' proposal.

 

Also this would generate business and familys to move to Buffalo. In turn maybe lure some potential FA. :thumbsup:

 

And yes, as a recreational hockey player who's open to moving back to the Buffalo area, the prospect of a new double sheet downtown only makes me want move there more.

[Iron Crotch]

I'm a little hazy on my Buffalo geography, but this would be across Scott St. from the new Courtyard Marriott that is going in?

[Robviously]

Those apartments should have a great view of the skyway.

If Buffalo ever wants to have a really great waterfront, the Skyway is going to have to come down.

 

Both concepts look great. I like the Sabres' better because it's a little more distinct and because I have more faith in Pegula than I do in Carl Paladino. Hopefully we get this done quickly; it'll be great for Buffalo and even better when we're hosting March Madness or (hopefully) another World Juniors.

 

Side note: This was also going to be the location of the doomed Adelphia Tower, right?

[LabattBlue]

If Buffalo ever wants to have a really great waterfront, the Skyway is going to have to come down.

 

Both concepts look great. I like the Sabres' better because it's a little more distinct and because I have more faith in Pegula than I do in Carl Paladino. Hopefully we get this done quickly; it'll be great for Buffalo and even better when we're hosting March Madness or (hopefully) another World Juniors.

 

Side note: This was also going to be the location of the doomed Adelphia Tower, right?

Knowing the city can never get out of its own way, I am convinced they will choose Crazy Carl, Pegula becomes pissed off, and shys away from any future waterfront opportunites.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Knowing the city can never get out of its own way, I am convinced they will choose Crazy Carl, Pegula becomes pissed off, and shys away from any future waterfront opportunites.

 

How's Larry Quinn doing?

 

I'm sure a few people will walk away with envelopes as they run up Uncle Terry.

[MattPie]

How's Larry Quinn doing?

 

I'm sure a few people will walk away with envelopes as they run up Uncle Terry.

 

Sigh, I won't even bother to ask if you have some proof of bribery.

[Sabre Dance]

If Buffalo ever wants to have a really great waterfront, the Skyway is going to have to come down.

 

Both concepts look great. I like the Sabres' better because it's a little more distinct and because I have more faith in Pegula than I do in Carl Paladino. Hopefully we get this done quickly; it'll be great for Buffalo and even better when we're hosting March Madness or (hopefully) another World Juniors.

 

Side note: This was also going to be the location of the doomed Adelphia Tower, right?

 

Actually, the Skyway is bad enough, but then you have the Marine Drive Apartments - those are ugly buildings and they block the view of the Inner Harbor at least as much as, if not more than the Skyway does. In a perfect world, both of these would be gone. Knowing Buffalo, we'll be seeing them for years to come.

 

Both Webster Block proposals look good - if I had to choose, I'd go with the twin ice rinks. Knowing that available ice time around Buffalo is always in short supply, putting these in would guarantee increased activity at the foot of Main Street. But whichever one is chosen, PLEASE actually build the thing! We've had too many years of having our hopes raised, only to be dashed upon the rocks of local politics.

[LabattBlue]

Actually, the Skyway is bad enough, but then you have the Marine Drive Apartments - those are ugly buildings and they block the view of the Inner Harbor at least as much as, if not more than the Skyway does. In a perfect world, both of these would be gone. Knowing Buffalo, we'll be seeing them for years to come.

 

Both Webster Block proposals look good - if I had to choose, I'd go with the twin ice rinks. Knowing that available ice time around Buffalo is always in short supply, putting these in would guarantee increased activity at the foot of Main Street. But whichever one is chosen, PLEASE actually build the thing! We've had too many years of having our hopes raised, only to be dashed upon the rocks of local politics.

Having subsidized housing on the waterfront(Marine Drive Apartments) is way worse than the skyway.

 

The skyway...I know it is a longer route to downtown without it, but there is plenty of access to the 90 from Hamburg and points south. If you really want that straight shot, take Rte. 5 in, and then hop on Ohio St. to downtown. The more that gets developed underneath and around the skyway, the less likely it is ever to come down.

[TrueBlueGED]

Actually, the Skyway is bad enough, but then you have the Marine Drive Apartments - those are ugly buildings and they block the view of the Inner Harbor at least as much as, if not more than the Skyway does. In a perfect world, both of these would be gone. Knowing Buffalo, we'll be seeing them for years to come.

 

Both Webster Block proposals look good - if I had to choose, I'd go with the twin ice rinks. Knowing that available ice time around Buffalo is always in short supply, putting these in would guarantee increased activity at the foot of Main Street. But whichever one is chosen, PLEASE actually build the thing! We've had too many years of having our hopes raised, only to be dashed upon the rocks of local politics.

 

I agree that both projects look good, but I'd go for the Sabres proposal for a few reasons.

 

1) It's actually a unique destination and a reason to go into the city. As somebody who has lived in the suburbs for my entire life, I rarely have a reason to go into the city. Give me one, and I will! More office space and apartments that I can't afford aren't going to get me there.

 

2) Does the city really need more office space? Seriously, especially with HSBC moving out, I can't imagine a reason why we need to pour tens of millions into new office space when the city can't fill the space it currently has.

 

3) If the Sabres get the bid, I have faith it will actually get done. Maybe it's blind faith in Pegula, but I think he's demonstrated that when he gets involved, things get done. Paladino sometimes gets things done, but he also has other properties with which he's done the equivalent of nothing.

 

In sum I think the Sabres' proposal gives people a reason to go into the city who otherwise wouldn't, and it's just a really cool concept, whereas the Paladino proposal strikes me as more of the same, only newer. What does this mean? The visionaries in city hall will crunch the numbers, see the Paladino proposal is cheaper, and go with it :wallbash:

[Sabre Dance]

Having subsidized housing on the waterfront(Marine Drive Apartments) is way worse than the skyway.

 

The skyway...I know it is a longer route to downtown without it, but there is plenty of access to the 90 from Hamburg and points south. If you really want that straight shot, take Rte. 5 in, and then hop on Ohio St. to downtown. The more that gets developed underneath and around the skyway, the less likely it is ever to come down.

 

Ohio Street to Michigan Ave. is (to me) preferable to the Skyway. Nothing worse than perking along at 55 MPH and then hitting the traffic signal at the foot of the Skyway. I only use the Skyway when I want to stop at Starbucks on Delaware on the way into work (which lately hasn't been very often at all).

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Sigh, I won't even bother to ask if you have some proof of bribery.

 

I'm just laughing at the setup. Quinn is partners with Paladino on many projects. Quinn hired 90% of the people working inside of the arena who are putting the proposal together with the Sabres. The city is the city and wouldn't close an open window in the middle of January if they found it.

 

All those expecting a 100% perfectly legit and efficient process....please raise your hands.

[ROC Sabres]

I really wonder if the designer of that was having an off day when he labeled the facility. Labeling the restrooms "toilets" is a little amateur to me.

[...]

I actually don't have a problem with the Skyway aesthetically. It has, perhaps, the best view of the area outside of getting into one of the taller buildings. When I was a reporter, I saw the proposal to replace the Skyway with a tunnel...a particularly ambitious project and very costly. I would rather that money go towards developing/cleaning up near by areas.

[That Aud Smell]

I actually don't have a problem with the Skyway aesthetically. It has, perhaps, the best view of the area outside of getting into one of the taller buildings. When I was a reporter, I saw the proposal to replace the Skyway with a tunnel...a particularly ambitious project and very costly. I would rather that money go towards developing/cleaning up near by areas.

 

i've sort of given up on my anti-skyway credentials. i am more a fan of the mantra "lighter, quicker, cheaper" (or whatever it is) that is now guiding canalside development. removing and replacing the skyway would be a massive undertaking -- better to use that money elsewhere. the turning point for me was going to the concerts at canalside; when the sun is setting, the harbor is behind you, the band you like is on stage, and you're feeling a pleasant blue light buzz, the skyway just ... blends innocuously into the background. it's not the obstacle to development and beautification that i once imagined/assumed it to be.

[MattPie]

I actually don't have a problem with the Skyway aesthetically. It has, perhaps, the best view of the area outside of getting into one of the taller buildings. When I was a reporter, I saw the proposal to replace the Skyway with a tunnel...a particularly ambitious project and very costly. I would rather that money go towards developing/cleaning up near by areas.

 

It's probably be easier to put in a new highway from Smith St (give or take) and connect down past Tift. Looking at the satellite map, there doesn't seem to be a ton of stuff in the way.

[Weave]

i've sort of given up on my anti-skyway credentials. i am more a fan of the mantra "lighter, quicker, cheaper" (or whatever it is) that is now guiding canalside development. removing and replacing the skyway would be a massive undertaking -- better to use that money elsewhere. the turning point for me was going to the concerts at canalside; when the sun is setting, the harbor is behind you, the band you like is on stage, and you're feeling a pleasant blue light buzz, the skyway just ... blends innocuously into the background. it's not the obstacle to development and beautification that i once imagined/assumed it to be.

 

It is kind of weird seeing a semi barreling down the skyway as the band plays on stage though.

[That Aud Smell]

It is kind of weird seeing a semi barreling down the skyway as the band plays on stage though.

 

i hear you. it has also crossed my mind, from time to time, that the reportedly higher relative incidence of accidents on that elevated expressway has the potential to affect/impact the environs below.

 

[sabills]

I'm slowly getting used to the skyway. It isn't as bad as I once thought it was, and it somehow gives it a distinct urban feel when I'm down at the harbor. We'll see if I still think that when canalside is completed, though.

Edited July 31, 2012 by sabills

[JJFIVEOH]

What exactly is Paladino's proposal?

[spndnchz]

What exactly is Paladino's proposal?

 

See the link in the first post.

 

Basically more offices, no rinks.