deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I'd still love to know what the plan is for the Sabres and Miller. He's 32 years old and signed for two more seasons. Are we trying to win with Miller or trying to build a team that can win in 2-3 years (when Miller is either gone or past his prime)? If we're not trying to win with Miller, we should trade him for something that WILL help us win (eventually). If that means Enroth is our no.1 this year, then so be it. I also don't understand what Miller wants. His window of opportunity is closing. Does he really want to spend the next couple years in Buffalo hoping that a young, half-rebuilding team can suddenly contend? I would completely understand if he wanted out. [All speculation on my part. I'm not starting rumors.] I have to think that the Sabres haven't come close to completing their off-season to-do list. If Doan signs elsewhere and Ryan gets traded to another team, the Sabres may be going into the season with the mindset of this being a throwaway season. At that point, it would be in the Sabres best interest to move Miller before he hits the final year of his deal. You can also say the same about Vanek and Pominville. The Sabres can't allow all three to reach the final year of their deals, can they? I can't imagine that extending any of the three being a good idea.
Trettioåtta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I have to think that the Sabres haven't come close to completing their off-season to-do list. If Doan signs elsewhere and Ryan gets traded to another team, the Sabres may be going into the season with the mindset of this being a throwaway season. At that point, it would be in the Sabres best interest to move Miller before he hits the final year of his deal. You can also say the same about Vanek and Pominville. The Sabres can't allow all three to reach the final year of their deals, can they? I can't imagine that extending any of the three being a good idea. You need vets on a team. Young is good, but if we got rid of them we would have an average age of about 23.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I have to think that the Sabres haven't come close to completing their off-season to-do list. If Doan signs elsewhere and Ryan gets traded to another team, the Sabres may be going into the season with the mindset of this being a throwaway season. At that point, it would be in the Sabres best interest to move Miller before he hits the final year of his deal. You can also say the same about Vanek and Pominville. The Sabres can't allow all three to reach the final year of their deals, can they? I can't imagine that extending any of the three being a good idea. How can they consider it a throw-away year? The media considered them possible Cup contenders last year and when they were healthy, they almost played like it. To me that's not far away. A throw away-year is when you have NOTHING to look forward to and are quite possibly going to finish near the bottom of the league. They are already an improvement over last year, so how can you go from possible Cup contenders (at the very least play like a top team in the league when healthy) to "throw-away" after you've already improved the team over last year?
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 You need vets on a team. Young is good, but if we got rid of them we would have an average age of about 23. Over that time the Sabres would be bringing in other players. it's not like Vanek, Pominville and Miller would be just be gone. Would the Sabres be better off cutting bait early and getting something in return? How can they consider it a throw-away year? The media considered them possible Cup contenders last year and when they were healthy, they almost played like it. To me that's not far away. A throw away-year is when you have NOTHING to look forward to and are quite possibly going to finish near the bottom of the league. They are already an improvement over last year, so how can you go from possible Cup contenders (at the very least play like a top team in the league when healthy) to "throw-away" after you've already improved the team over last year? What "media" considered the Sabres a serious Cup contender? This team is nowhere near contending for a Stanley Cup. At this point I wouldn't consider the Sabres anything more than a bubble team that will likely need some luck to even make the playoffs.
Trettioåtta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Over that time the Sabres would be bringing in other players. it's not like Vanek, Pominville and Miller would be just be gone. Would the Sabres be better off cutting bait early and getting something in return? What "media" considered the Sabres a serious Cup contender? This team is nowhere near contending for a Stanley Cup. At this point I wouldn't consider the Sabres anything more than a bubble team that will likely need some luck to even make the playoffs. Hrmmm, well: Pommers - I really like Pommers, he is consistent, able to produce, plays all situations and is defensively responsible. He isn't overly physical, but i don't mind that - i prefer the wings team to the bruins. Vanek - He is frustratingly inconsistent, but does put up the numbers. I wouldn't mind trading, but unless it is for young top talent, not sure what we gain from it. Miller - I know some people think he isn't that good based on his numbers, but he is left out to dry a lot. Some people also think he is a dick in the locker room, but i don''t see that personally, i see an honest guy. So presuming he isn't a wanker. I wouldn't trade him unless it is for like Bernier. He is a positional goalie so i don't see age being a problem, he has a good work ethic, so i think that he will be okay athletically over the next 4 years. I don't see reason to trade any of them, but if the right deal came along i wouldn't shoot DR if he did trade them.
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 What "media" considered the Sabres a serious Cup contender? ESPN commentators almost unanimously chose the Sabres to win the Northeast, Linda Cohn picked them to win the East and Steve Levy to win the Cup. http://espn.go.com/nhl/preview2011/story/_/id/7061058/stanley-cup-awards-predictions
MattPie Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 What "media" considered the Sabres a serious Cup contender? This team is nowhere near contending for a Stanley Cup. At this point I wouldn't consider the Sabres anything more than a bubble team that will likely need some luck to even make the playoffs. Contender is a strong term, but most media outlets considered the Sabres a solid playoff team. That's why missing the playoffs was a huge surprise and disappointment to everyone. No one was surprised or disappointed (outside of Toronto) the Leafs or Islanders didn't make the playoffs last year. I think people are forgetting the Sabres played some really solid hockey over the last couple months of the year after getting healthy. Call it desperation or whatever, but the simple fact is that during 'crunch time' they put together 2 points out of every 3 available (roughly, I'd have to look up the right number). If they didn't lay a couple eggs in the last week of the season, it would have been one of the great runs in team history. Blame them for the eggs if you like, but the other 20+ games in that stretch can't be ignored. Are they a contender now? Probably not. But they're certainly not a lock for the playoff miss that some are painting. EDIT: 20-8-7 late January thru April, 47 points of 70, 0.67 pts%.
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Hrmmm, well: Pommers - I really like Pommers, he is consistent, able to produce, plays all situations and is defensively responsible. He isn't overly physical, but i don't mind that - i prefer the wings team to the bruins. Vanek - He is frustratingly inconsistent, but does put up the numbers. I wouldn't mind trading, but unless it is for young top talent, not sure what we gain from it. Miller - I know some people think he isn't that good based on his numbers, but he is left out to dry a lot. Some people also think he is a dick in the locker room, but i don''t see that personally, i see an honest guy. So presuming he isn't a wanker. I wouldn't trade him unless it is for like Bernier. He is a positional goalie so i don't see age being a problem, he has a good work ethic, so i think that he will be okay athletically over the next 4 years. I don't see reason to trade any of them, but if the right deal came along i wouldn't shoot DR if he did trade them. Are you taking into account their contract status? ESPN commentators almost unanimously chose the Sabres to win the Northeast, Linda Cohn picked them to win the East and Steve Levy to win the Cup. http://espn.go.com/n...rds-predictions I'm guess the hype of last off-season got to them.
Trettioåtta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Are you taking into account their contract status? I'm guess the hype of last off-season got to them. If cap keeps going up their contracts become cheaper. I don't see any of them getting a major pay increase - they may even take a small pay cut
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Contender is a strong term, but most media outlets considered the Sabres a solid playoff team. That's why missing the playoffs was a huge surprise and disappointment to everyone. No one was surprised or disappointed (outside of Toronto) the Leafs or Islanders didn't make the playoffs last year. I think people are forgetting the Sabres played some really solid hockey over the last couple months of the year after getting healthy. Call it desperation or whatever, but the simple fact is that during 'crunch time' they put together 2 points out of every 3 available (roughly, I'd have to look up the right number). If they didn't lay a couple eggs in the last week of the season, it would have been one of the great runs in team history. Blame them for the eggs if you like, but the other 20+ games in that stretch can't be ignored. Are they a contender now? Probably not. But they're certainly not a lock for the playoff miss that some are painting. EDIT: 20-8-7 late January thru April, 47 points of 70, 0.67 pts%. I look at last years Sabres this way. They didn't start winning until they were out of it. They put themselves in a position to determine their own destiny and they immediately crapped the bed. Unless something changes between now and the regular season, IMO, they are just another bubble team hanging around 9th to 12th hoping a couple of other teams crap the bed. ' May I remind you, I say this while at the same time I love what they have done so far this off-season.
Stoner Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 How can they consider it a throw-away year? The media considered them possible Cup contenders last year and when they were healthy, they almost played like it. To me that's not far away. A throw away-year is when you have NOTHING to look forward to and are quite possibly going to finish near the bottom of the league. They are already an improvement over last year, so how can you go from possible Cup contenders (at the very least play like a top team in the league when healthy) to "throw-away" after you've already improved the team over last year? I'm giving that the unheard of Rick Jeanneret TRIPLE WOWWWW!
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 If cap keeps going up their contracts become cheaper. I don't see any of them getting a major pay increase - they may even take a small pay cut I can see Pominville taking the hometown discount, Vanek and Miller? No way, IMO.
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I'm guess the hype of last off-season got to them. Almost definitely. If not for the near catastrophic run of injuries they probably actually win the Northeast--- but they wouldn't have been a better team, and certainly not a true Cup contender.
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I can see Pominville taking the hometown discount, Vanek and Miller? No way, IMO. Miller? No, Van and Pom? Yes.
Claude_Verret Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 You're the one who brought it up, senator. That's the difference between you and a lot of fans and me. I'm not content with missing the playoffs most seasons, or going out in the first round, while praying at the altar of supposed elites like Lindy and Millsie. I'm willing to risk shipping them out to see if we can do better. I don't need a goalie in return, I need a part that gets us closer to contending status. Yep, fans not like you are perfectly content missing the playoffs most of the time. <_< The difference between a lot of fans and you is that you believe Miller is part of the problem and most others don't (Lindy is a different story), they also aren't eager to create another hole on this team where one didn't exist before.
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Yep, fans not like you are perfectly content missing the playoffs most of the time. <_< The difference between a lot of fans and you is that you believe Miller is part of the problem and most others don't (Lindy is a different story), they also aren't eager to create another hole on this team where one didn't exist before. To be more accurate, the problem with Miller is he doesn't make enough of a difference to justify keeping him here at his current price.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Over that time the Sabres would be bringing in other players. it's not like Vanek, Pominville and Miller would be just be gone. Would the Sabres be better off cutting bait early and getting something in return? What "media" considered the Sabres a serious Cup contender? This team is nowhere near contending for a Stanley Cup. At this point I wouldn't consider the Sabres anything more than a bubble team that will likely need some luck to even make the playoffs. The media part has since been mentioned. But you know damn well if the Sabres hadn't had a rash of key injuries they would have EASILY finished a solid 7th (6th if you don't include the SE division #3 ranking). So they miss the playoffs by 3 points, all that with the injuries........... now they've made significant improvements and yet somehow they're in a throw-away season? I'm giving that the unheard of Rick Jeanneret TRIPLE WOWWWW! Care to explain? -------------------------------------- Here's a simple solution.......... how about the Sabres re-sign these guys before it's even an issue?
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 The media part has since been mentioned. But you know damn well if the Sabres hadn't had a rash of key injuries they would have EASILY finished a solid 7th (6th if you don't include the SE division #3 ranking). So they miss the playoffs by 3 points, all that with the injuries........... now they've made significant improvements and yet somehow they're in a throw-away season? Care to explain? -------------------------------------- Here's a simple solution.......... how about the Sabres re-sign these guys before it's even an issue? They traded Roy for Ott. They have no proven centers on this roster and have only 2 top six forwards (Pominville & Vanek). Where are the "significant improvements." If you are going to try and argue "if the Sabres were healthy" then you have to play out the entire scenario and make every team in the East healthy and go from there.
LGR4GM Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Do you know how I know the Sabres are better this year over last? Hecht, Boyes, MAG, and Roy are not on the Roster to start the season. They have been replaced by Ennis, Hodgson, McNabb and Ott... This year may be well short of a cup run but it will be a great learning experience for the up and coming core and I have no doubt that we make playoffs. Hell are defense 2 years ago was Rivet, Morrison, Montador, an Butler and now we have Ehrhoff, Regehr, Sultzer, McNabb and a more experienced Myers, Sekera, and Weber... IMPO we are turning the corner finally after years of bashing our heads against the wall. This year may be a 1st/2rnd exit but for once there seems to be a plan and we are heading in the correct direction.
Derrico Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 To be more accurate, the problem with Miller is he doesn't make enough of a difference to justify keeping him here at his current price. We have been spoiled in Buffalo with the goaltending we've had over the previous 15 years. I don't want to be in Toronto's shoes right now. What would we do with the additional 6 million? Not like next year's free agency is looking too promising. I guess maybe we could throw Enroth in there to the wolves and offer Doan 10 million a season??
LGR4GM Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 They traded Roy for Ott. They have no proven centers on this roster and have only 2 top six forwards (Pominville & Vanek). Where are the "significant improvements." If you are going to try and argue "if the Sabres were healthy" then you have to play out the entire scenario and make every team in the East healthy and go from there. The Sabres are better this year than last year. Again removing Roy, Hecht, and Boyes is a significant improvement. I am personally glad the Sabres didn't spend 200 million on Parise and Suter because they will never live up to those deals. I will bet 20$ this years team has more points (and makes the playoffs) and they also score more goals than last years.
drnkirishone Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 You're the one who brought it up, senator. That's the difference between you and a lot of fans and me. I'm not content with missing the playoffs most seasons, or going out in the first round, while praying at the altar of supposed elites like Lindy and Millsie. I'm willing to risk shipping them out to see if we can do better. I don't need a goalie in return, I need a part that gets us closer to contending status. your an idiot. I really believe all you want is the sabres to finish last so that your agenda of ruff being fired happens
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 They traded Roy for Ott. They have no proven centers on this roster and have only 2 top six forwards (Pominville & Vanek). Where are the "significant improvements." If you are going to try and argue "if the Sabres were healthy" then you have to play out the entire scenario and make every team in the East healthy and go from there. Right, which is why there needs to be some consideration for a #1 center. But, they didn't have a #1 center last year. Roy didn't put up his usual numbers so by his stats he wasn't a #1 either. And as much as you might want to hate giving Stafford credit, he is a top 6 forward. He finished with 50 points last year which puts him 91st. When you have 30 teams, how does 50 points not get you a top six forward? Where do you think Ennis would finish on that list if he played an entire season? I agree, every team has their injuries.............. BUT very few teams had the injuries in such a short span than the Sabres did. It's a big difference to have a few injuries throughout the year and to have several gone for a couple of months. Improvements include drafting of two new 1st round centers........ one may possibly start the year in the NHL (who knows maybe two). Ennis at center (may or may not work out, but at least he's healthy now). Foligno will be full time (there's no way he can keep last years pace but his physical style will compliment ANY player on his line). Hodgson (did you not see his potential last year?) Do you know how I know the Sabres are better this year over last? Hecht, Boyes, MAG, and Roy are not on the Roster to start the season. They have been replaced by Ennis, Hodgson, McNabb and Ott... This year may be well short of a cup run but it will be a great learning experience for the up and coming core and I have no doubt that we make playoffs. Hell are defense 2 years ago was Rivet, Morrison, Montador, an Butler and now we have Ehrhoff, Regehr, Sultzer, McNabb and a more experienced Myers, Sekera, and Weber... IMPO we are turning the corner finally after years of bashing our heads against the wall. This year may be a 1st/2rnd exit but for once there seems to be a plan and we are heading in the correct direction. Sure it's not a throw-away year and time to rebuild? :doh:
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 We have been spoiled in Buffalo with the goaltending we've had over the previous 15 years. I don't want to be in Toronto's shoes right now. What would we do with the additional 6 million? Not like next year's free agency is looking too promising. I guess maybe we could throw Enroth in there to the wolves and offer Doan 10 million a season?? I wouldn't consider starting Enroth as "throwing him to the wolves." He is a very good goaltender, there no reason to waste another season of his career on the bench. The Sabres can take that savings and put it towards acquiring a center via trade.
darksabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 I wouldn't consider starting Enroth as "throwing him to the wolves." He is a very good goaltender, there no reason to waste another season of his career on the bench. The Sabres can take that savings and put it towards acquiring a center via trade. He's a very good goaltender based on...what...exactly?
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