RazielSabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Preds would only have Josi, Ellis, Klein, and Hal Gill left on defense if they let Weber go for the four 1st round picks. They lost Francis Boullion (and of course Suter) already this summer. They'd be woefully inexperienced on the back-end, with only Gill and Klein as true veterans. They would certainly have to trade to get a couple of new d-men, at least one of whom would need to be an established veteran. Think we could get a first round pick or more back for a guy like Leo or Sekera? It would be a deal definately worth offering Probably Leopold for Phillys 1st next year.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Sigh. And the criminal undervaluing of Sekera continues. He's not a cap dump. He's not a throw-in. I wish people would stop acting like it's 2010.
inkman Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Sigh. And the criminal undervaluing of Sekera continues. He's not a cap dump. He's not a throw-in. I wish people would stop acting like it's 2010. He was arguably their best defender last year.
gohansrage Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Sigh. And the criminal undervaluing of Sekera continues. He's not a cap dump. He's not a throw-in. I wish people would stop acting like it's 2010. Agreed. If the Sabres had a first round pick turn into a guy like Sekera I would be happy. So why would I trade Sekera for a pick? That makes no sense. I would include Sekera in a pacakge for a Ryan or Nash. That's not because I think Sekera is bad (far from it) but because you have to trade something good
shrader Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 They should limit contract length as well as limit signing bonuses. Maybe two times the salary max. No variability in the annual contract terms. Each year should be for the same amount. That eliminates all the games. If they want to sign them to 14 year deals, then so be it, but adding those 4 extra years at the same exact terms sure will make a team think twice.
Iron Crotch Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Sigh. And the criminal undervaluing of Sekera continues. He's not a cap dump. He's not a throw-in. I wish people would stop acting like it's 2010. It has nothing to do with undervaluing Reggie. We have 10 d-men. 3 cannot easily be moved (NTC): Myers, Regehr, the Hoff. 3 are mid-priced veterans: Leo, Reggie, Pardy. The other 4 have cap hits of less than $1 million. The mid-priced guys make the most sense to move to a team that needs veteran d-men... so that leads to Leo and Reggie.
Weave Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 If I were Darcy I would be talking to them about what type of guys we could send them to get them to the floor and pick up a pick or two. Say we sign Doan....that gets you near the cap. Could we send Stafford, Lieno and Sekera there for a few #1's.....then take those picks, add our #1's the next 2 years and send McNabb over for Nash? I mean...it doesn't have to be for Nash....and don't hold me to the specifics.....but you can dump salary, and make a play on a superstar to take a run at this the next few years. Nashville needs NHL bodies and we need upside assets to move for a Nash/Ryan/Stastny along with cap space. Nashville still has a week to work out a "Weber" trade.....it just will be the picks moving for players. Right now I like the idea of signing Voracek out from under Philly better.
Iron Crotch Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Shea Weber's agent on TSN Radio: http://t.co/92wIbrIu Edit: There is all kinds of garbage out there on twitter as usual - the above link gives you exactly what Shea's agent said. Interpret it as you will.
deluca67 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 I'll keep Myers and Ehrhoff thanks. You couldn't get Shea Weber for Myers and Ehrhoff so it wouldn't be an issue. I say offer the Preds 5 first round picks and a player for Weber's rights and then match the Flyers offer sheet.
Trettioåtta Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 You couldn't get Shea Weber for Myers and Ehrhoff so it wouldn't be an issue. I say offer the Preds 5 first round picks and a player for Weber's rights and then match the Flyers offer sheet. Can you trade the players rights once he has been offer sheeted?
deluca67 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Can you trade the players rights once he has been offer sheeted? Why not? The Preds still own the rights. Maybe some of the CBA gurus could shed light on it.
Two or less Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 You couldn't get Shea Weber for Myers and Ehrhoff so it wouldn't be an issue. I say offer the Preds 5 first round picks and a player for Weber's rights and then match the Flyers offer sheet. Nashville doesn't hold his rights anymore, so they can't trade him. He signed with the Flyers. Nashville can only match and must hold onto him for one year.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Can you trade the players rights once he has been offer sheeted? Why not? The Preds still own the rights. Maybe some of the CBA gurus could shed light on it. No, you can't. The Preds can either match and trade him after 1 calendar year, or not match and take the picks (which as others have mentioned, could be flipped back to Philly for players). Those are the only options. It has nothing to do with undervaluing Reggie. We have 10 d-men. 3 cannot easily be moved (NTC): Myers, Regehr, the Hoff. 3 are mid-priced veterans: Leo, Reggie, Pardy. The other 4 have cap hits of less than $1 million. The mid-priced guys make the most sense to move to a team that needs veteran d-men... so that leads to Leo and Reggie. I have no problem trading Sekera...but for a 1st round pick as a cap dump? Hell no. What a waste. He's exactly the type of guy we want going forward, given his great combination of contract and performance.
deluca67 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 No, you can't. The Preds can either match and trade him after 1 calendar year, or not match and take the picks (which as others have mentioned, could be flipped back to Philly for players). Those are the only options. I have no problem trading Sekera...but for a 1st round pick as a cap dump? Hell no. What a waste. He's exactly the type of guy we want going forward, given his great combination of contract and performance. The offer sheet suspends the Predators' rights? Once an offer sheet is signed it turns into a sort of a right of first refusal situation?
IKnowPhysics Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Dreger interprets Weber's signing the offer sheet as a clear indication that he wants to leave Nashville. I'm not sold on that. Vanek's signing wasn't an indication that he wanted to leave Buffalo, just use of the tools available to him in the CBA to command higher salary. But Dreger makes one astute point, if obvious. If both Weber and Suter leave, Nashville will have NO defense. They're left with only Hal Gill, Ryan Ellis, Kevin Klein, and Josi Roman under contract. They WILL have to acquire defensemen. Maybe they become trade partners for us. Maybe move Leopold (with only one year left before UFA). The problem is return: unless they want to move some picks, they don't have much to offer. Their offensive depth is sparse and young. Erat and Fisher, players the Sabres might actually have interest in, have NMCs. Paul Hornqvist is interesting. Nashville's payroll is dead last with $29M+ in cap space. They should be trying to ###### up UFAs, except there's nothing left to buy. All of of this adds up to the realization that Nashville will need to match Philly to keep Shea Weber or they'll have a hard time putting any sort of team on the ice. edit: Now the word sn atch is censored? FACISM!
carpandean Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 The offer sheet suspends the Predators' rights? Once an offer sheet is signed it turns into a sort of a right of first refusal situation? Remember, there's still "free agent" in RFA. He's a free agent, but with much more restricted options. He can't sign a straight contract; he can only sign an offer of a contract if the team holding his rights does not exercise their right to match any such offer he signs. But, yes, to answer your question, it suspends all other rights that the Preds have other than the right to match.
deluca67 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Remember, there's still "free agent" in RFA. He's a free agent, but with much more restricted options. He can't sign a straight contract; he can only sign an offer of a contract if the team holding his rights does not exercise their right to match any such offer he signs. But, yes, to answer your question, it suspends all other rights that the Preds have other than the right to match. It just made more sense to me that the Preds would carry his rights until the Flyer contract is executed. I have an overall question on Free Agency. The Wild sign Ryan Sutter and the Preds get nothing. The Flyers attempt to sign Shea Weber with the intention of giving the Preds multiple 1st round picks and are considered the bad guys. Isn't that convoluted? Isn't losing Sutter without any compensation more damaging? It seems, IMO. the Flyers are doing the Preds a favor even if they don;t match. A year from now Weber is gone anyway.
Iron Crotch Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Dreger interprets Weber's signing the offer sheet as a clear indication that he wants to leave Nashville. I'm not sold on that. Vanek's signing wasn't an indication that he wanted to leave Buffalo, just use of the tools available to him in the CBA to command higher salary. But Dreger makes one astute point, if obvious. If both Weber and Suter leave, Nashville will have NO defense. They're left with only Hal Gill, Ryan Ellis, Kevin Klein, and Josi Roman under contract. They WILL have to acquire defensemen. Maybe they become trade partners for us. Maybe move Leopold (with only one year left before UFA). The problem is return: unless they want to move some picks, they don't have much to offer. Their offensive depth is sparse and young. Erat and Fisher, players the Sabres might actually have interest in, have NMCs. Paul Hornqvist is interesting. Nashville's payroll is dead last with $29M+ in cap space. They should be trying to ###### up UFAs, except there's nothing left to buy. All of of this adds up to the realization that Nashville will need to match Philly to keep Shea Weber or they'll have a hard time putting any sort of team on the ice. I agree with your interpretation. I think this is simply the case of a good agent getting the most possible money for his client by orchestrating an offer sheet. The Preds would have continued to muck around with sub-market value offers and by the time Shea was set to become a UFA next year, the rules of the game would have changed. The only way to get him top dollar now is to have a team submit an offer sheet, but that team MUST be one that the client legitimately would want to play for. They simply forced Poile's hand. They know full well the Preds can match and he can be playing in Nashville for at least another year. I think if Shea was adamant about never playing another game in Nashville he wouldn't go the offer sheet route.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 It just made more sense to me that the Preds would carry his rights until the Flyer contract is executed. I have an overall question on Free Agency. The Wild sign Ryan Sutter and the Preds get nothing. The Flyers attempt to sign Shea Weber with the intention of giving the Preds multiple 1st round picks and are considered the bad guys. Isn't that convoluted? Isn't losing Sutter without any compensation more damaging? It seems, IMO. the Flyers are doing the Preds a favor even if they don;t match. A year from now Weber is gone anyway. Yea, I don't see Philly as the bad guys, they're acting within the rules. If RFAs aren't supposed to be touched by other teams, why have that status in the first place (yes, NHLPA blah blah...I'm just talking conceptually). I have no problems with what Philly did, other than I think they jumped the gun on doing it and could come up empty handed and never have another shot at Weber. I agree with your interpretation. I think this is simply the case of a good agent getting the most possible money for his client by orchestrating an offer sheet. The Preds would have continued to muck around with sub-market value offers and by the time Shea was set to become a UFA next year, the rules of the game would have changed. The only way to get him top dollar now is to have a team submit an offer sheet, but that team MUST be one that the client legitimately would want to play for. They simply forced Poile's hand. They know full well the Preds can match and he can be playing in Nashville for at least another year. I think if Shea was adamant about never playing another game in Nashville he wouldn't go the offer sheet route. For what it's worth, Weber's agent said he doesn't want to go through a rebuilding process (agent speak, so take it for what it's worth) and Katie Strang reported today that a couple weeks ago Weber was touring the Rangers' facilities like he did with Philly's. Again it could just be trying to leverage an offer sheet to maximize his money before the new CBA, but it's worth noting.
spndnchz Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 It just made more sense to me that the Preds would carry his rights until the Flyer contract is executed. I have an overall question on Free Agency. The Wild sign Ryan Sutter and the Preds get nothing. The Flyers attempt to sign Shea Weber with the intention of giving the Preds multiple 1st round picks and are considered the bad guys. Isn't that convoluted? Isn't losing Sutter without any compensation more damaging? It seems, IMO. the Flyers are doing the Preds a favor even if they don;t match. A year from now Weber is gone anyway. The player earns the right to be an UFA. Only one offer sheet per player at a time.
deluca67 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 The player earns the right to be an UFA. Only one offer sheet per player at a time. UFA status isn't earned, it's negotiated in the CBA. A player can get multiple offer sheets, he can sign one, just like a UFA contract.
IKnowPhysics Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 The little TSN sidebar video is quoting the Nashville general manager as saying that they are staying with their previously stated intention to match any offer sheet for Weber and that any delay is just them doing due diligence to understand the complexity and ramifications of the offer sheet. Weber's agent believes that if Nashville had successfully retained Suter, Nashville would likely release Weber and take the picks.
Iron Crotch Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 For what it's worth, Weber's agent said he doesn't want to go through a rebuilding process (agent speak, so take it for what it's worth) and Katie Strang reported today that a couple weeks ago Weber was touring the Rangers' facilities like he did with Philly's. Again it could just be trying to leverage an offer sheet to maximize his money before the new CBA, but it's worth noting. Yeah, I think it is the latter (leveraging an offer sheet to maximize his payout under the current CBA). Tactical brilliance on the part of his agents. Makes the capitalist in me proud. Stay or go, Shea still gets a boatload of cash and the agents get a huge commission. :clapping: On that note, I wonder why more agents aren't out there trying to get offer sheets for their RFA clients? And, if they are, might we see more offer sheets in the next couple of weeks? (T.J. Oshie comes to mind as a worthy target for someone)
spndnchz Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 UFA status isn't earned, it's negotiated in the CBA. A player can get multiple offer sheets, he can sign one, just like a UFA contract. It's earned by time and or games in the league. Sorry, "one offer sheet signed at a time". In fact, ever. Once they sign one their going to one team or staying put.
Marvelo Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Dreger interprets Weber's signing the offer sheet as a clear indication that he wants to leave Nashville. I'm not sold on that. Vanek's signing wasn't an indication that he wanted to leave Buffalo, just use of the tools available to him in the CBA to command higher salary. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Vanek's signing WAS an indication he wanted to leave Buffalo. He had reasons to want out of Buffalo, namely Lindy Ruff. And if he's been in Buffalo all this time not wanting to be in Buffalo, have we been getting the most for that $7 mill a year contract? I think not.
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