TrueBlueGED Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 If everything is equal then other things like hometown come into play. But I think if the reports are true that the Sabres have been offering these equal or slightly better offers then I think we can still believe that coming to Buffalo is still not the first option for many players. They may know that the Sabres have one of the wealthiest owners in the league. They may know that the Sabres have one of the best facilities in the league. But the Sabres have not reached that tipping point of becoming a destination for players yet. Is it the perception of the city itself? Lindy? Something else or all the little things combined? I'm sure we'll never really know. I think it's simple: they haven't won enough.
nobody Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I think it's simple: they haven't won enough. True - that might help a bit. :)
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I think it's simple: they haven't won enough. Couldnt agree enough. Just win baby.
... Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 In an off-season with little fanfare, compared to last season, offers like that can carry some good will if they were actually made. There does seem to be a lot more info leaking out of the F'N Center. Not saying it happened that way, just that it did cross my mind when i first heard it. [/Quote] I think the case can be made that the frequency of leaks is tied to the stature of the deals. Who cares about scooping the contract details of third tier or worse players? The Sabres are making plays for the big boys, of course some of that info will leak, it would leak for any team making the same plays. This is new territory for all of us. I was concerned last off-season how the Sabres had to overpay to get Leino and Ehrhoff under contract. If Shane Doan signs with the Sabres I don't want it to because they were the only team to pay him 30 mil the first two seasons. I want there to be two equal offers where he chooses the Sabres because it gives him the best chance to win. How do you get to that level? Players aren't going to come here just because the Sabres mantra has changed. Players need to know the organization is serious. There are many, many years of a reputation for mediocrity to reverse. The only way to do that quickly, to meet TP's goals, is to over pay.
Stoner Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I think it's simple: they haven't won enough. You're only scratching the surface. Players know the franchise has been mediocre, and they see the authors of that mediocrity rewarded with apparent lifetime contracts. That would surely scare away anyone who wants to win.
drnkirishone Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 You're only scratching the surface. Players know the franchise has been mediocre, and they see the authors of that mediocrity rewarded with apparent lifetime contracts. That would surely scare away anyone who wants to win. So great to see the agenda at work again. IMO you need the something to attract the big names. That something can be a number of things. could be a winning tradition (detroit) could be the glitz and glamor of big city life (NYC) could be where you grew up (minny) could be warm weather (southern teams) could be a storied franchise with a long history (toronto/montreal) or even that you already have a couple of the best players in the league on the roster (pit). From what I see the Sabres are trying to go for a mix of hockey town, first class organization, and founding a winning tradition. Now I don't think there can be much arguement against us being a hockey town and it seems that Pegula has made some fairly good progress on bringing about the first class organization part. But all we have to offer for the winning tradition atm is to sell them on the idea that their signing here will be viewed as the start of that tradition.
deluca67 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 You're only scratching the surface. Players know the franchise has been mediocre, and they see the authors of that mediocrity rewarded with apparent lifetime contracts. That would surely scare away anyone who wants to win. I can see that as being a big part of it. It doesn't help having a coach that players have no problem with taking a shot at on their way out. You don't hear a lot of that from other teams.It's becoming a much too frequent occurrence around here.
Stoner Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 So great to see the agenda at work again. IMO you need the something to attract the big names. That something can be a number of things. could be a winning tradition (detroit) could be the glitz and glamor of big city life (NYC) could be where you grew up (minny) could be warm weather (southern teams) could be a storied franchise with a long history (toronto/montreal) or even that you already have a couple of the best players in the league on the roster (pit). From what I see the Sabres are trying to go for a mix of hockey town, first class organization, and founding a winning tradition. Now I don't think there can be much arguement against us being a hockey town and it seems that Pegula has made some fairly good progress on bringing about the first class organization part. But all we have to offer for the winning tradition atm is to sell them on the idea that their signing here will be viewed as the start of that tradition. Sounds like we basically agree. You got to the heart of it at the end. The Sabres have to sell guys on starting a winning tradition -- with the same coach and GM who have had 15 years to do it and have failed. You don't think players around the league find the situation in Buffalo at the very least... weird?
Guest Sloth Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 In an off-season with little fanfare, compared to last season, offers like that can carry some good will if they were actually made. There does seem to be a lot more info leaking out of the F'N Center. Not saying it happened that way, just that it did cross my mind when i first heard it. I was concerned last off-season how the Sabres had to overpay to get Leino and Ehrhoff under contract. If Shane Doan signs with the Sabres I don't want it to because they were the only team to pay him 30 mil the first two seasons. I want there to be two equal offers where he chooses the Sabres because it gives him the best chance to win. I want the Sabres to get quality hockey players, winners, not bounty hunters looking for a fat paycheck. The Islanders traded a 4th round pick to the Canucks to have early negotiations w/ Ehrhoff and he turned down a big offer, because he simply did not want to play there. Buffalo than traded a 4th round pick to New York to get the negotiating rights. The Sabres offered a deal similar to the Islanders and he agreed to it. Ehrhoff could've declined to wait for many teams to make an offer. He chose not to. This does show players would like to play in Buffalo. Don't forget about what Regher chose to do to play in Buffalo. He gave up his no trade clause to play for the Sabres.
bunomatic Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 The Islanders traded a 4th round pick to the Canucks to have early negotiations w/ Ehrhoff and he turned down a big offer, because he simply did not want to play there. Buffalo than traded a 4th round pick to New York to get the negotiating rights. The Sabres offered a deal similar to the Islanders and he agreed to it. Ehrhoff could've declined to wait for many teams to make an offer. He chose not to. This does show players would like to play in Buffalo. Don't forget about what Regher chose to do to play in Buffalo. He gave up his no trade clause to play for the Sabres. I think last season set us back some. We were viewed as a bunch of purse carrying fragile boys with no heart who once again missed the playoffs with no accountability in management or coaching for the poor showing. IMO that doesn't look like a team that wants to win.
nfreeman Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I don't think there is much to be concluded from the Sabres not getting Parise, Suter or Staal. It's a very small sample size and in each case, the players had strong personal connections to the teams they chose -- and undisputedly "desirable" franchises like Philly, Detroit and the Rangers were shut out the same way the Sabres were. Unfortunately it's quite likely that the same thing will happen with Doan. I don't think he'll pick another EC team that offers a lesser contract than the Sabres' offer, but if he doesn't accept the Sabres' offer, I think it will be because he wants to stay in or close to Phoenix. As for where the Sabres rank right now on the desirability scale, I'd say it's much, much higher than it was pre-TP, but they won't reach the top echelon until they start making noise in the playoffs on a consistent basis. (This is one of the reasons I was ready to fire DR after he let last season go down the tube by doing nothing while the Sabres took a vacation from mid-November to late January, effectively eliminating them from the playoffs. Missing the playoffs last year after making all those splashy moves the previous summer and spending a ton of money made the franchise look bad. Losing begets losing.)
RazielSabre Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I think last season set us back some. We were viewed as a bunch of purse carrying fragile boys with no heart who once again missed the playoffs with no accountability in management or coaching for the poor showing. IMO that doesn't look like a team that wants to win. Then we lost Gausted and Roy and gained some respectibility back, doing what it takes. Getting Ott also helps. Swings and roundabouts, the Sabres reputation is definatly on the up imho.
deluca67 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 The Islanders traded a 4th round pick to the Canucks to have early negotiations w/ Ehrhoff and he turned down a big offer, because he simply did not want to play there. Buffalo than traded a 4th round pick to New York to get the negotiating rights. The Sabres offered a deal similar to the Islanders and he agreed to it. Ehrhoff could've declined to wait for many teams to make an offer. He chose not to. This does show players would like to play in Buffalo. Don't forget about what Regher chose to do to play in Buffalo. He gave up his no trade clause to play for the Sabres. Regehr had two choices, the Sabres that wanted him and Calgary that did not. What could Regehr really do in that situation other than agree to go to Buffalo? Ehrhoff shows that players will come here is you if you pay them enough. Ehrhoff had to realize that not many teams where going to put $33 mil cash in his pocket over the first two years.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Regehr had two choices, the Sabres that wanted him and Calgary that did not. What could Regehr really do in that situation other than agree to go to Buffalo? Ehrhoff shows that players will come here is you if you pay them enough. Ehrhoff had to realize that not many teams where going to put $33 mil cash in his pocket over the first two years. Regehr comes here, your explanation is he had no choice, and the Sabres still suck. If Regehr refused to come here, "OMG look a top player wants nothing to do with this team!" and the Sabres still suck. Using your line of reasoning, the ONLY way the Sabres don't suck is if Regehr walks into Feaster's office and requests a trade here. There truly is no winning.
deluca67 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 Regehr comes here, your explanation is he had no choice, and the Sabres still suck. If Regehr refused to come here, "OMG look a top player wants nothing to do with this team!" and the Sabres still suck. Using your line of reasoning, the ONLY way the Sabres don't suck is if Regehr walks into Feaster's office and requests a trade here. There truly is no winning. That is pretty ridiculous and is a silly attempt to move off topic. The Sabres made a really good offer to Calgary which included taking a bad contract (Kotalik) in return. Regehr had very few options and chose to come to Buffalo than stay in a awkward situation in Calgary.
tom webster Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 Regehr had two choices, the Sabres that wanted him and Calgary that did not. What could Regehr really do in that situation other than agree to go to Buffalo? Ehrhoff shows that players will come here is you if you pay them enough. Ehrhoff had to realize that not many teams where going to put $33 mil cash in his pocket over the first two years. You really can't have it both ways,. I agree with you that the $100M offers are irrelevant because the results are all that mattered. That being said, you can't then judge how other results were accomplished.
nfreeman Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 That is pretty ridiculous and is a silly attempt to move off topic. The Sabres made a really good offer to Calgary which included taking a bad contract (Kotalik) in return. Regehr had very few options and chose to come to Buffalo than stay in a awkward situation in Calgary. What is this based on? Regehr was and is a very good, well-respected, tough veteran defenseman on a reasonable contract. I would guess plenty of teams would have been interested in trading for him.
deluca67 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 What is this based on? Regehr was and is a very good, well-respected, tough veteran defenseman on a reasonable contract. I would guess plenty of teams would have been interested in trading for him. Wouldn't the Flames have traded him for a better offer? You really can't have it both ways,. I agree with you that the $100M offers are irrelevant because the results are all that mattered. That being said, you can't then judge how other results were accomplished. Both scenarios go to the same point. When the money is equal, players will choose to go elsewhere.
Claude_Verret Posted July 21, 2012 Report Posted July 21, 2012 Again, how in the world can these offers be irrelevant when up until a few years ago the Sabres NEVER would have made them? I also recall DR saying pre 7/1 that the Sabres were going to be players for the top guys, but that there was little top end talent and many teams that would be competing for those players. They gave it their best play and didnt land their guy(s), what more can you ask for from your teams ownership?
MattPie Posted July 23, 2012 Report Posted July 23, 2012 Again, how in the world can these offers be irrelevant when up until a few years ago the Sabres NEVER would have made them? I also recall DR saying pre 7/1 that the Sabres were going to be players for the top guys, but that there was little top end talent and many teams that would be competing for those players. They gave it their best play and didnt land their guy(s), what more can you ask for from your teams ownership? The Sabres need to make bigger offers so the folks here can just say that it's all about the money.
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