Marvelo Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 If there is a season, and I'm not sure that there will be one, I have my doubts that this Lindy Ruff coached team will go anywhere. Recent history is that all the team can muster is one good half a season. Further, I'm afraid about all the hype about Grigs and Girgs. They are EIGHTEEN years old. I think an 18 year old in the NHL is as rare as a friendly person from Boston. I am excited for their future but there's no way they'll be mature enough to compete with the constant physical grind of an NHL season, no matter what Ruff says. IMO Ruff is approaching senility as a coach and might ruin these kids. I don't trust his moves anymore. Center as is (Ennis, Hodgson, McCormick/Ellis/Adam) is very iffy this year, especially because we don't know about Ennis/Hodgson's longterm durability. You can be as euphoric as you want but Hodgson only had 3 goals in his entire Sabres tenure. If we get one or two injures to these two top guys, and Hodgson hasn't proved anything yet, our obvious thin-ness at C might force us to bring up Grig/Girgs and force them right into the sharktank.The Sabres desperation at C might actually set our prize rookies back. They need seasoning. Regier did a great job revamping this summer but Buffalo has been so woefully understaffed at center for so long, it might be too little too late, as usual. Even Mike Trout needed an anonymous year under his belt before breaking out...he's now the ripe old age of 20.
RazielSabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 If there is a season, and I'm not sure that there will be one, I have my doubts that this Lindy Ruff coached team will go anywhere. Recent history is that all the team can muster is one good half a season. Further, I'm afraid about all the hype about Grigs and Girgs. They are EIGHTEEN years old. I think an 18 year old in the NHL is as rare as a friendly person from Boston. I am excited for their future but there's no way they'll be mature enough to compete with the constant physical grind of an NHL season, no matter what Ruff says. IMO Ruff is approaching senility as a coach and might ruin these kids. I don't trust his moves anymore. Center as is (Ennis, Hodgson, McCormick/Ellis/Adam) is very iffy this year, especially because we don't know about Ennis/Hodgson's longterm durability. You can be as euphoric as you want but Hodgson only had 3 goals in his entire Sabres tenure. If we get one or two injures to these two top guys, and Hodgson hasn't proved anything yet, our obvious thin-ness at C might force us to bring up Grig/Girgs and force them right into the sharktank.The Sabres desperation at C might actually set our prize rookies back. They need seasoning. Regier did a great job revamping this summer but Buffalo has been so woefully understaffed at center for so long, it might be too little too late, as usual. Even Mike Trout needed an anonymous year under his belt before breaking out...he's now the ripe old age of 20. While unproven I think Hodg and Ennis at least deserve a shot as no.1 and 2 tbh.
Marvelo Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 While unproven I think Hodg and Ennis at least deserve a shot as no.1 and 2 tbh. hopefully they sign Ennis.
LTS Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 These threads kill me. I swear some people here would be just as angry and pessimistic if they were Red Wings fans. We have a player who had not really played center until last year and began to flourish and now we knock him saying he can't keep it up. (Ennis). We have a player who played 20 games on the Sabres and we think he sucks. (Hodgson) We have two players who have not played any games in the NHL and are the answers to everything? (Grigorenko and Girgensons) And we've written off Adam after one season, you gotta love that. Why do we have any reason to doubt that an Ennis-Stafford-Foligno line can't continue to be powerful? Why do we have any reason to wonder if Hodgson can center Vanek and Pominville? As for center on the 3/4 lines why does it even matter at all? Those aren't your scoring lines. You need players who can win faceoffs (Ott) and can play sound defensively while still chipping in from time to time. Leino played decent at 3rd center at end of last year. Meanwhile, the Sabres have shipped out one player who nearly everyone wanted to see gone for many reasons, not the least of which was his ability to bring those around him down. Put all that together and suddenly we have a team that sucks? Even if they go 15-5 in the first 20 games people here will be saying "Wait.. they are going to fail." And yes... hopefully they sign Ennis.. because right now an offer sheet could handcuff the Sabres.
sabres4life19 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 There are a few knowledgeable posters here averring that Griggy is going to make the team this fall. If so, there's your 3rd center. And if DR can land Doaner...even the most jaded among us will be pretty psyched to see: Hodgson-Vanek-Doan Ennis-Foligno-Stafford Ott-Leino-Pommer McCormick-Kaleta-Gerbe I'm not sure what this line up is, if your doing C LW RW or you've really just taken every single player out of his natural position. Say we do acquire Doan...and i'm nit picking but you really think he plays RW on our top line rather than Center where we clearly need him? and we throw our top guy in points and captain pommer on the 3rd line in a checking role?? theres a few scenarios obviously but first without girgs, grigs or Doan we'll probably look like this on our top two lines.. Vanek - Hodgson - Pommer Foligno - Ennis - Stafford thats if foligno keeps it up and makes the team (which i think he will) bottom 6 gets real complicated and barring any moves we have a log jam Leino/Ott/Gerbe All natural Leftwings and you have Adam who obviously struggled playing Center at times and always finds himself back at LW Ellis on a one way deal this year can play LW or C and McCormick can play center or RW and finally we have Kaleta and Tropp at RW i'd like Gerbe LW - Ott C - Kaleta or Tropp at RW for 3rd line but then your forced with 4million dollar man Ville on 4th line duty Our Left wing and center on 3rd line is the biggest question mark to me b/c who do you really want to throw on the 4th line with Mccormick and kaleta/tropp. and are we going to force Ott to play center when he's naturally a LW. Theres too many question marks to me. lets see if anything else happens before the season and see how things look in training camp. i predict a move before game one. two many so-so forwards and too many defenseman These threads kill me. I swear some people here would be just as angry and pessimistic if they were Red Wings fans. We have a player who had not really played center until last year and began to flourish and now we knock him saying he can't keep it up. (Ennis). We have a player who played 20 games on the Sabres and we think he sucks. (Hodgson) We have two players who have not played any games in the NHL and are the answers to everything? (Grigorenko and Girgensons) And we've written off Adam after one season, you gotta love that. Why do we have any reason to doubt that an Ennis-Stafford-Foligno line can't continue to be powerful? Why do we have any reason to wonder if Hodgson can center Vanek and Pominville? As for center on the 3/4 lines why does it even matter at all? Those aren't your scoring lines. You need players who can win faceoffs (Ott) and can play sound defensively while still chipping in from time to time. Leino played decent at 3rd center at end of last year. Meanwhile, the Sabres have shipped out one player who nearly everyone wanted to see gone for many reasons, not the least of which was his ability to bring those around him down. Put all that together and suddenly we have a team that sucks? Even if they go 15-5 in the first 20 games people here will be saying "Wait.. they are going to fail." And yes... hopefully they sign Ennis.. because right now an offer sheet could handcuff the Sabres. :thumbsup:
Guest Sloth Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Too many posts to go through, but I'm sure most can remember all of the hype the Sabres had going into the 2011/12 season. Analysts, not all of course, across the NHL were thinking Buffalo would take the North East...and some even thought the Sabres had a shot at taking the Eastern Conference. It's amazing how quick things can change. Aside from Hodgson being added, Roy being traded for Ott, Scott being brought in to beat people up and Foligno looking to be a very good player, Buffalo has the same team. I really hope Darcy pulls off a groundbreaking deal that improves the Sabres tremendously for both the now and the future. I left Boyes and Hecht out, because there was almost no reason to mention them. These threads kill me. I swear some people here would be just as angry and pessimistic if they were Red Wings fans. We have a player who had not really played center until last year and began to flourish and now we knock him saying he can't keep it up. (Ennis). We have a player who played 20 games on the Sabres and we think he sucks. (Hodgson) We have two players who have not played any games in the NHL and are the answers to everything? (Grigorenko and Girgensons) And we've written off Adam after one season, you gotta love that. Why do we have any reason to doubt that an Ennis-Stafford-Foligno line can't continue to be powerful? Why do we have any reason to wonder if Hodgson can center Vanek and Pominville? As for center on the 3/4 lines why does it even matter at all? Those aren't your scoring lines. You need players who can win faceoffs (Ott) and can play sound defensively while still chipping in from time to time. Leino played decent at 3rd center at end of last year. Meanwhile, the Sabres have shipped out one player who nearly everyone wanted to see gone for many reasons, not the least of which was his ability to bring those around him down. Put all that together and suddenly we have a team that sucks? Even if they go 15-5 in the first 20 games people here will be saying "Wait.. they are going to fail." And yes... hopefully they sign Ennis.. because right now an offer sheet could handcuff the Sabres. Even though sabres4life has already given you a thumbs, I have to as well. Very good post. :thumbsup:
inkman Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Posted July 19, 2012 Ennis getting an offer sheet is laughable. I'm praying someone does it and the Sabres let him go. I try to find a comparison for Tylers skill set and body type and I don't see any legit NHL centers that are that slight.
RazielSabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 These threads kill me. I swear some people here would be just as angry and pessimistic if they were Red Wings fans. We have a player who had not really played center until last year and began to flourish and now we knock him saying he can't keep it up. (Ennis). We have a player who played 20 games on the Sabres and we think he sucks. (Hodgson) We have two players who have not played any games in the NHL and are the answers to everything? (Grigorenko and Girgensons) And we've written off Adam after one season, you gotta love that. Why do we have any reason to doubt that an Ennis-Stafford-Foligno line can't continue to be powerful? Why do we have any reason to wonder if Hodgson can center Vanek and Pominville? As for center on the 3/4 lines why does it even matter at all? Those aren't your scoring lines. You need players who can win faceoffs (Ott) and can play sound defensively while still chipping in from time to time. Leino played decent at 3rd center at end of last year. Meanwhile, the Sabres have shipped out one player who nearly everyone wanted to see gone for many reasons, not the least of which was his ability to bring those around him down. Put all that together and suddenly we have a team that sucks? Even if they go 15-5 in the first 20 games people here will be saying "Wait.. they are going to fail." And yes... hopefully they sign Ennis.. because right now an offer sheet could handcuff the Sabres. :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
Stoner Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 welcome back PA we all hope for the best for our sabres!! Hoping maybe Lindy will figure out how to get this bunch of guys motivated and moving. Thanks. This is where I'm at. This is what we're given as fans. We gotta work with it. Whatever. If that was posted on 7/17/14, it's probably a popular sentiment. Today, well, if ALL the stars align right then ..., nah I can't even see winning a division (much less a conference or a league) under that scenario with today's roster. So do you think it's the Sabres' plan for everything to come together in two years (the old "one step back" routine), or are they trying to put together a Cup team now and falling short in their pursuits?
RazielSabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks. This is where I'm at. This is what we're given as fans. We gotta work with it. Whatever. So do you think it's the Sabres' plan for everything to come together in two years (the old "one step back" routine), or are they trying to put together a Cup team now and falling short in their pursuits? I'm going with Pegula's 3 year plan, we're 1 year in and while last season was complete loss I still like our team and hope for more next season.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 These threads kill me. I swear some people here would be just as angry and pessimistic if they were Red Wings fans. We have a player who had not really played center until last year and began to flourish and now we knock him saying he can't keep it up. (Ennis). We have a player who played 20 games on the Sabres and we think he sucks. (Hodgson) We have two players who have not played any games in the NHL and are the answers to everything? (Grigorenko and Girgensons) And we've written off Adam after one season, you gotta love that. Why do we have any reason to doubt that an Ennis-Stafford-Foligno line can't continue to be powerful? Why do we have any reason to wonder if Hodgson can center Vanek and Pominville? As for center on the 3/4 lines why does it even matter at all? Those aren't your scoring lines. You need players who can win faceoffs (Ott) and can play sound defensively while still chipping in from time to time. Leino played decent at 3rd center at end of last year. Meanwhile, the Sabres have shipped out one player who nearly everyone wanted to see gone for many reasons, not the least of which was his ability to bring those around him down. Put all that together and suddenly we have a team that sucks? Even if they go 15-5 in the first 20 games people here will be saying "Wait.. they are going to fail." And yes... hopefully they sign Ennis.. because right now an offer sheet could handcuff the Sabres. The FES line can't keep up the pace they were on, it's completely unsustainable. Take a look at their shooting percentages over that stretch and explain why they can be anywhere from 6-15 points higher than guys like Crosby, Kovalchuk, etc. Only a few people have written off Hodgson. Yes, your 3rd and 4th line centers matter. Take a look at past Cup winners. Adam hasn't been written off, there's just no place for him on the roster as currently constructed.
Huckleberry Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 if we don't sign doan or any other winger, i can see grigorenko moving to the wing on the top line.
LTS Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 The FES line can't keep up the pace they were on, it's completely unsustainable. Take a look at their shooting percentages over that stretch and explain why they can be anywhere from 6-15 points higher than guys like Crosby, Kovalchuk, etc. Only a few people have written off Hodgson. Yes, your 3rd and 4th line centers matter. Take a look at past Cup winners. Adam hasn't been written off, there's just no place for him on the roster as currently constructed. I don't disagree that the FES line can't keep the SAME pace. But even without scoring one of their major benefits was keeping the other team in their zone for long stretches of time. They are a threat and the more they play in the offensive zone the more the other team has to play its better players against them to try and mitigate scoring chances. My point is saying they can't be effective (ie. Ennis is not a 2nd line center). Perhaps not on his own.. but with Foligno digging and Stafford in a hybrid hit/puck control mode Ennis gets a lot more ice out there. Right now we have every reason to believe that they are effective. Eventually I would guess that other teams may find a way to defend them better and slow them down, etc. That's part of adaptation... on both sides. At this point in time I have no reason to doubt them. Why can't Adam be your 3rd line center.. or better? The thing with Adam is not a lack of size nor skill, it was a seeming lack of desire/will. There are all kinds of things that can contribute to that and he's acknowledged it as well. Having players on your team that can hold you accountable can also play into the mix. I wouldn't be surprised if he was influenced by Kassian. It was Adam, Kassian, and Foligno that were the big 3 going into last season (Traverse City). Foligno didn't make the jump and Kassian had a questionable work ethic, etc. His chance to prove himself comes in training camp... then we'll know what we are getting. I think the 3rd/4th line centers don't matter as far as playing a true center position. You need face-off winners and you need shutdown players. I think the TYPE of players you have in that role matter more than their ability to be a "C". For example, Sabres have Ott. He's marginally lower in face-off percentage than Gaustad but plays a much bigger game.. but he's not a C. He scores more points than Gaustad did as well (7G,10A vs. 11G, 28A) and a better +/-. Is this a best of both worlds? You gain face-off percentage and scoring but need another guy to play the C position on the line? You don't say the same thing with the top lines. You look for a player who can play the center position and do the center things.
MattPie Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Why can't Adam be your 3rd line center.. or better? The thing with Adam is not a lack of size nor skill, it was a seeming lack of desire/will. There are all kinds of things that can contribute to that and he's acknowledged it as well. Having players on your team that can hold you accountable can also play into the mix. I wouldn't be surprised if he was influenced by Kassian. It was Adam, Kassian, and Foligno that were the big 3 going into last season (Traverse City). Foligno didn't make the jump and Kassian had a questionable work ethic, etc. His chance to prove himself comes in training camp... then we'll know what we are getting. The main problem with Adam on the 3rd line is, to date, he hasn't shown the ability to effectively play defense. Maybe that's will or skill, but right now I'd think it would be a disaster. I hope that changes.
nobody Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Yashin as 3rd line center for a season? Slava Malamud @SlavaMalamud Sport-Express reports Alexei Yashin's KHL deal fell through, he's eyeing a possible NHL comeback. Let the bidding wars begin!
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 The main problem with Adam on the 3rd line is, to date, he hasn't shown the ability to effectively play defense. Maybe that's will or skill, but right now I'd think it would be a disaster. I hope that changes. I just don't think Adam has the right skill set to be a center, even if he learns how to play defense. I didn't see the vision, passing, puck skills, or skating I want out of a center. Obviously you can get by without all 4 of those things, but you can't be missing all of them. Ennis I don't think has superb vision, but he compensates with his elite skating and stick handling. Hodgson obviously is a weak skater, but can compensate with hockey sense and passing. I just think Adam is better suited to playing the wing.
spndnchz Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Yashin as 3rd line center for a season? Slava Malamud @SlavaMalamud Sport-Express reports Alexei Yashin's KHL deal fell through, he's eyeing a possible NHL comeback. Let the bidding wars begin! If the goes back to the Islanders do the Islanders lose the 2 million cap hit for his buyout? :w00t:
shrader Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Yashin as 3rd line center for a season? Slava Malamud @SlavaMalamud Sport-Express reports Alexei Yashin's KHL deal fell through, he's eyeing a possible NHL comeback. Let the bidding wars begin! And the best part? He still counts against the Islanders cap for 3 more years. Thanks for bringing back the laughs about that contract.
X. Benedict Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 The main problem with Adam on the 3rd line is, to date, he hasn't shown the ability to effectively play defense. Maybe that's will or skill, but right now I'd think it would be a disaster. I hope that changes. I think a lot of focus will be off Luke Adam and he'll settle in nicely. Rookies sucking on defense is no surprise. He'll grow.
Taro T Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 ... So do you think it's the Sabres' plan for everything to come together in two years (the old "one step back" routine), or are they trying to put together a Cup team now and falling short in their pursuits? Yes. ;) I think the team they had was lacking at least 2 players to be legitimate SC threat. This team is also lacking at least 2 players to be a legitimate SC threat, but this team could grow into that threat and if at least 1 of the 2 G's pan out, the pieces this team is missing in 2 years are much easier to find than the pieces they are currently missing. I've got to run to a meeting, I'll try to finish answering your question later tonight (if my 5PM meeting ever ends).
carpandean Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Yashin as 3rd line center for a season? Now that is the role model that we want for Grigs! :sick:
RazielSabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Posted July 19, 2012 Yashin as 3rd line center for a season? Slava Malamud @SlavaMalamud Sport-Express reports Alexei Yashin's KHL deal fell through, he's eyeing a possible NHL comeback. Let the bidding wars begin! Yashin-Semin = the dynamic duo!
billsrcursed Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I just don't think Adam has the right skill set to be a center, even if he learns how to play defense. I didn't see the vision, passing, puck skills, or skating I want out of a center. Obviously you can get by without all 4 of those things, but you can't be missing all of them. Ennis I don't think has superb vision, but he compensates with his elite skating and stick handling. Hodgson obviously is a weak skater, but can compensate with hockey sense and passing. I just think Adam is better suited to playing the wing. Exactly. I don't think anyone's "writing him off" as a player, just as a Center in the NHL.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.