Sabel79 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Oh, hi there our one and only actually good player...
Sabel79 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Ruh-roh. Mexico ships two goals and Honduras now ahead of us as it stands. One more goal for Panama in their game and it's goodnight...
Sabel79 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Aaaaaaaand there it is. Panama up 2-1. No World Cup for us, boys and girls. In fairness, this is karma for our unnecessarily eliminating Panama last time. But man...
Eleven Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) 323 million people and we can't find 23 men who can play soccer. Amazing. Meanwhile, Iceland... I cannot even begin to explain how incredibly pissed off I am right now. Edited October 11, 2017 by Eleven
Sabel79 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 323 million people and we can't find 23 who can play soccer. Amazing. Meanwhile, Iceland... We could totally do it if we so chose. Many of them would be rather dark and might not speak English all that well. USA Soccer needs to make a decision, continue the unctuous pay for play country-club they've been running or get serious about doing what it takes to win. I know what they'll do. Bruce Arena just now: "There's nothing wrong with what we're doing." This is why they fired your ass years ago. Klinsmann's firing (justly or not, there are reasonable disagreements to be had about that) opened the crypt wide enough for him to wiggle back through. Stay in your wheelhouse son, manage an MLS team to the bottom. Or, you know, just stop because dinosaurs are calling me to say you're embarrassing them. Ugh.
ubkev Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Give me 2 weeks to train. I bet I could make the men's national team. The women's team, no. But definitely the men's team. They fu*king suck!
Iron Crotch Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 I probably watch more soccer these days than any sport (including hockey). And, my long-standing criticism of USA Soccer is this: I believe (as Klinsmann did) that to field the best possible national team, we want our players playing against the best possible competition in the top leagues in the world (Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie). The MLS over the past few years has developed the ability to pay big salaries to attract and/or keep "star" national team players at home. Good for the players financially, but this IMHO has hurt our national team since the quality of competition in the MLS is inferior. Throughout qualifying we've consistently put a bunch of MLS guys on the field when to me we had players in better leagues available. Personally, I'd rather see guys like Weston McKennie, Danny Williams, Lynden Gooch, Emerson Hyndman, Matt Miazga, Fabian Johnson (declined to play the last two games), John Brooks (hurt), Geoff Cameron (on bench), Cameron Carter-Vickers, etc. than the unexciting MLS-heavy lineups we fielded. Anyway, I'm hopeful that the "old core" gets replaced in the next cycle by some young European-based players. And, we find a coach who gets the tactics right.
WildCard Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Give me 2 weeks to train. I bet I could make the men's national team. The women's team, no. But definitely the men's team. They fu*king suck! Women's team is way more badass anyways.
Sabel79 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 I probably watch more soccer these days than any sport (including hockey). And, my long-standing criticism of USA Soccer is this: I believe (as Klinsmann did) that to field the best possible national team, we want our players playing against the best possible competition in the top leagues in the world (Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie). The MLS over the past few years has developed the ability to pay big salaries to attract and/or keep "star" national team players at home. Good for the players financially, but this IMHO has hurt our national team since the quality of competition in the MLS is inferior. Throughout qualifying we've consistently put a bunch of MLS guys on the field when to me we had players in better leagues available. Personally, I'd rather see guys like Weston McKennie, Danny Williams, Lynden Gooch, Emerson Hyndman, Matt Miazga, Fabian Johnson (declined to play the last two games), John Brooks (hurt), Geoff Cameron (on bench), Cameron Carter-Vickers, etc. than the unexciting MLS-heavy lineups we fielded. Anyway, I'm hopeful that the "old core" gets replaced in the next cycle by some young European-based players. And, we find a coach who gets the tactics right. It's tricky for Americans to get to play in Europe. Those that do from a young age are dual citizens somewhere in the EU. European labor law reaches even unto sport, something we can't comprehend as Americans where anything with enough money attached to it is never questioned. Klinsmann looked for as many US-eligible European players as he could get. This pissed no small measure of people off at US Soccer. But what he realized, and many of us know reflexively, is that USA soccer is a reactionary force making sure that whites and acceptable Asains have every opportunity based on the amount of money their parents can pump into their coffers. Until we cast the net wider, we're doomed.
Iron Crotch Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 It's tricky for Americans to get to play in Europe. Those that do from a young age are dual citizens somewhere in the EU. European labor law reaches even unto sport, something we can't comprehend as Americans where anything with enough money attached to it is never questioned. Klinsmann looked for as many US-eligible European players as he could get. This pissed no small measure of people off at US Soccer. But what he realized, and many of us know reflexively, is that USA soccer is a reactionary force making sure that whites and acceptable Asains have every opportunity based on the amount of money their parents can pump into their coffers. Until we cast the net wider, we're doomed. Bradley, Dempsey, Altidore, Bedoya, Guzan, Howard, and others were all drawn back to the MLS from overseas due to greater financial opportunities in the MLS. Some of these guys got old (Howard, Guzan, Dempsey) but the others could have played against better competition for slightly lower salaries overseas but took the money and came back to the MLS. My argument is that the financial rise of MLS has in some ways hurt the national team. The level of competition just isn't there. It's like fielding a team of AHL guys to represent the USA at a major hockey tournament. On the flip side, the relatively new MLS youth academies should produce better talent than we've had in a while. Many of these young guys are on display at the U-17 world cup (USA is 2-0 in group play). The European labor laws differ greatly by country. It is easier now for an American to be signed by a Bundesliga team than it was about 5 years ago (although it differs greatly by league/country). We have U17s at places like PSG (Tim Weah), Ajax (Sergino Dest) and Werder Bremen (Josh Sargent). And, quite a few players at all levels of the Bundesliga these days (some dual citizens, some not). I just want us to tap into more overseas players rather than trotting out crappy MLS guys like Altidore and Besler match-after-match.
sabills Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 #EveryoneOut at US soccer. And lets pay the ladies the same as the men, BTW. They actually win. Side note, I actually thought Dempsey was decent last night as well. He and Pulisic looked like the only ones who gave a .
Iron Crotch Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 This is a pretty good article on the development gap in the early 1990's that left the current USMNT with an odd mix of either aging vets or still learning youngsters... http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap We have a ton of young players being developed overseas right now (ages 16-22 or so). So, I think we should have a much better team for the next Word Cup cycle.
Samson's Flow Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Bradley, Dempsey, Altidore, Bedoya, Guzan, Howard, and others were all drawn back to the MLS from overseas due to greater financial opportunities in the MLS. Some of these guys got old (Howard, Guzan, Dempsey) but the others could have played against better competition for slightly lower salaries overseas but took the money and came back to the MLS. My argument is that the financial rise of MLS has in some ways hurt the national team. The level of competition just isn't there. It's like fielding a team of AHL guys to represent the USA at a major hockey tournament. On the flip side, the relatively new MLS youth academies should produce better talent than we've had in a while. Many of these young guys are on display at the U-17 world cup (USA is 2-0 in group play). The European labor laws differ greatly by country. It is easier now for an American to be signed by a Bundesliga team than it was about 5 years ago (although it differs greatly by league/country). We have U17s at places like PSG (Tim Weah), Ajax (Sergino Dest) and Werder Bremen (Josh Sargent). And, quite a few players at all levels of the Bundesliga these days (some dual citizens, some not). I just want us to tap into more overseas players rather than trotting out crappy MLS guys like Altidore and Besler match-after-match. Its having a minimal presence in the best leagues in the world, and the over reliance on "name brand" players that are flat out old. US Soccer keeps trotting out Dempsey, Howard, Bradley etc., the same names as from the 2000 World Cup FFS. Just because the fans or general public doesn't know who the good players are doesn't mean you shouldn't play them over the dinosaurs from a decade ago. I was wrong. Losing Klinsmann was a big mistake as he was the only one pushing change and challenging the old guard of the USMNT. This is a pretty good article on the development gap in the early 1990's that left the current USMNT with an odd mix of either aging vets or still learning youngsters... http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap We have a ton of young players being developed overseas right now (ages 16-22 or so). So, I think we should have a much better team for the next Word Cup cycle. I better see Pulisic and 10 new guys next qualifying cycle in 2022. I'd rather have a bunch of young guys with talent than the same names who have proven they suck. Missing the World Cup this year might finally be the catalyst to remove head from sphincter.
Iron Crotch Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Its having a minimal presence in the best leagues in the world, and the over reliance on "name brand" players that are flat out old. US Soccer keeps trotting out Dempsey, Howard, Bradley etc., the same names as from the 2000 World Cup FFS. Just because the fans or general public doesn't know who the good players are doesn't mean you shouldn't play them over the dinosaurs from a decade ago. I was wrong. Losing Klinsmann was a big mistake as he was the only one pushing change and challenging the old guard of the USMNT. I better see Pulisic and 10 new guys next qualifying cycle in 2022. I'd rather have a bunch of young guys with talent than the same names who have proven they suck. Missing the World Cup this year might finally be the catalyst to remove head from sphincter. Yeah, we hired a retread coach (Arena) who put all of his favorite players from a decade ago on the qualifying roster. He picked 18 of 26 MLS guys for the roster. He left a Premier League starter like Geoff Cameron on the bench in favor of his old LA player Omar Gonzales and his favorite MLS re-tread Matt Besler at center back. Matt Miazga (Chelsea - on loan and playing well at Vitesse) didn't even get a roster spot. You can't tell me that Lynden Gooch or Weston McKennie or Danny Williams or even Timmy freakin' Chandler aren't better options at wide midfield than MLS guys Darlington Nagbe and/or Paul Arriola. He picked three past their prime MLS goaltenders: Howard (38), Guzan (32 - probably should have played more), and Rimando (37). Anyway, onward and upward. Time for the youth movement to start. So much young talent overseas. Time to get them into the mix.
Samson's Flow Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Yeah, we hired a retread coach (Arena) who put all of his favorite players from a decade ago on the qualifying roster. He picked 18 of 26 MLS guys for the roster. He left a Premier League starter like Geoff Cameron on the bench in favor of his old LA player Omar Gonzales and his favorite MLS re-tread Matt Besler at center back. Matt Miazga (Chelsea - on loan and playing well at Vitesse) didn't even get a roster spot. You can't tell me that Lynden Gooch or Weston McKennie or Danny Williams or even Timmy freakin' Chandler aren't better options at wide midfield than MLS guys Darlington Nagbe and/or Paul Arriola. He picked three past their prime MLS goaltenders: Howard (38), Guzan (32 - probably should have played more), and Rimando (37). Anyway, onward and upward. Time for the youth movement to start. So much young talent overseas. Time to get them into the mix. It's all about who you know. Arena knew and was comfortable with the names and faces he knew from MLS and previous teams, so that's who he played. You make a good point, the players who play in the top international leagues (Cameron, Miazga, McKennie, etc.) should be the key players on the USMNT, not JV all -stars from the weaker MLS league. There's a reason aging name-brand guys like David Villa, Schweinsteiger, Kaka and now Gerrard come to the MLS when they can't cut it in the top leagues anymore. They get paid and still look like stars against lesser competition.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Posted October 11, 2017 Sorry to say this, but the US and Canada are not world class football nations and will not be for some time. They lacked the development of youth players until recently. All over the world countries are really developing youth football as an investment in the future of the nation on the international stage. I agree with Potato concerning the MLS. On the other hand, I really do not think that NA has developed any football players good enough to have a prolonged and exceptional career in Europe.
sabills Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 Sorry to say this, but the US and Canada are not world class football nations and will not be for some time. They lacked the development of youth players until recently. All over the world countries are really developing youth football as an investment in the future of the nation on the international stage. I agree with Potato concerning the MLS. On the other hand, I really do not think that NA has developed any football players good enough to have a prolonged and exceptional career in Europe. This is the real loss from the WC miss; we finally have a real star on our hands in Pulisic, and he could have been front and center for the 25 minutes every 4 years that the average sports fan in America actually pays attention to soccer. That's the exact sort of thing needed to increase interest in the sport, and they're losing that 'free' advertising now.
Samson's Flow Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Sorry to say this, but the US and Canada are not world class football nations and will not be for some time. They lacked the development of youth players until recently. All over the world countries are really developing youth football as an investment in the future of the nation on the international stage. I agree with Potato concerning the MLS. On the other hand, I really do not think that NA has developed any football players good enough to have a prolonged and exceptional career in Europe. Just for reference, this was the the 26 man roster for the T&T game: GOALKEEPERS Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC), Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake) DEFENDERS DaMarcus Beasley (Houston Dynamo), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Omar Gonzalez (Pachuca), Michael Orozco (Club Tijuana), Tim Ream (Fulham), Jorge Villafana (Santos Laguna), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City) MIDFIELDERS Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas), Juan Agudelo (New England Revolution), Paul Arriola (D.C. United), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Benny Feilhaber (Sporting Kansas City), Dax McCarty (Chicago Fire), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy) FORWARDS Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), Bobby Wood (Hamburg) I count 3 contributors from European leagues (Pulisic, Wood, Yedlin), and the rest are all MLS players. You aren't going to win with MLS players in the WC. Edit: I missed Cameron. 4 from Europe. Edited October 11, 2017 by Touched by Boyes
Eleven Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Just for reference, this was the the 26 man roster for the T&T game: GOALKEEPERS Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC), Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake) DEFENDERS DaMarcus Beasley (Houston Dynamo), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Omar Gonzalez (Pachuca), Michael Orozco (Club Tijuana), Tim Ream (Fulham), Jorge Villafana (Santos Laguna), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City) MIDFIELDERS Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas), Juan Agudelo (New England Revolution), Paul Arriola (D.C. United), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Benny Feilhaber (Sporting Kansas City), Dax McCarty (Chicago Fire), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy) FORWARDS Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), Bobby Wood (Hamburg) I count 3 contributors from European leagues (Pulisic, Wood, Yedlin), and the rest are all MLS players. You aren't going to win with MLS players in the WC. Edit: I missed Cameron. 4 from Europe. This is the biggest problem, as Sabres79 also pointed out. They can only develop so far in MLS, which I would put somewhere between the English Championship and League One in terms of quality. Our players need to be up against top-flight competition all year round. As for the immigration issues, European teams have no trouble signing players from outside the EU (plenty of Africans, Asians, and South Americans), and the EU isn't going to be an issue for one particular country soon, anyway. US Soccer needs to get away from the idea of preferring MLS players if this ever is going to work. Edited October 11, 2017 by Eleven
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Posted October 11, 2017 You guys have wonderfully proven my point about NA football player development. And, Boyes, of the 4 players playing in Europe the only one that I see as having a great career on a top European club is the wonder kid.
Samson's Flow Posted October 11, 2017 Report Posted October 11, 2017 You guys have wonderfully proven my point about NA football player development. And, Boyes, of the 4 players playing in Europe the only one that I see as having a great career on a top European club is the wonder kid. Right. I was just pointing out guys that play in Europe, let alone actually being on a top team or playing big minutes.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Posted October 11, 2017 Right. I was just pointing out guys that play in Europe, let alone actually being on a top team or playing big minutes. Right on. We're good ... :flirt:
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