Derek Roy

[RazielSabre]

Paul Hamilton was talking about Roy this morning on my 6am drive in. Specifically, using Roy to trade for X. Hamilton insisted, as he has before, that there is no market whatsoever for Derek Roy right now, as he said last year at the deadline too. He did qualify that and say that the results of post-July 1 may change that, but right now noone wants Roy as part of trades. He has yet to go into any specifics of WHY Roy is so untradeable. We all know he puts up decent numbers, can play a two way game, and has a freindly contract number.

 

WTF is it about Roy that makes him hard to move?

 

 

I know a bunch of you summarily dismiss Hamilton but in my experience if he states it as fact he has sources that have backed his assertion up. I do believe he has sources, be they inside the team or around the league.

 

I don't believe he is, his a natural 2nd line centre in a league lacking them. His a consistant point producer with 1 bad season and going into a contact year. His almost guaranteed to produce next year. However look around the league, Luongo, Nash are just two names that are supposedly moving but never do. I think we'll see a much quieter offseason than usual. Personally I put it down to the contact lengths and CBA.

[LastPommerFan]

I want Derek Roy's point production on my team, especially at $4M.

 

I don't want Derek Roy's personality on my team, his "NHL Cribz" video really turned me off.

 

So I am too conflicted to decide based on what I want for the Sabres. What I do know is that Roy is not effective against top tier defensemen or good checking lines. He is more effective than anyone else at $4M against mid-level defensemen. If we get a Roster with 3 scoring lines and one checking line, I'll take him with the understanding that he'll get significant minutes against the other teams not-best defensive forwards and not-top defensive pair. If we get a roster with 2 scoring lines, a shut-down line, and an energy line, I do not want him on the roster.

[ROC Sabres]

My biggest concern with the possibility of Roy being trade is whether or not the mods are going to automatically update all of our default avatars.

 

I like his point production and what he brings to the team but I'm with you PommerFan, I just don't like him.

[TrueBlueGED]

We got offered a 1st and middling prospect for Roy at the deadline, so I find it hard to believe there's absolutely no market for him. There may not be the market Regier wants there to be, but there's something. And I still maintain that if Roy was as bad as some would have us believe, Regier absolutely would have taken that pick and run with it. But he didn't. So while I'm inclined to believe he's not exactly the role model I want for the young centers, I don't think he's as cancerous as we're being told. As far as the "we were better without him" argument...we had a very similar record from January-April with him this year as without him last year.

[OverPowerYou]

We should trade Roy to Calgary, they've been making horrible deals the last 3 years. Why would they stop now?

[...]

 

 

WTF is it about Roy that makes him hard to move?

 

 

 

It's not Roy, it's Darcy. Darcy wants too much for Roy, therefore Roy is un-trade-able. Maybe Darcy can get a first for Roy, but Darcy wants a first, a third and a prospect...or pick whatever combination.

 

With that said, I think Roy isn't going anywhere until near to the trade deadline. Roy needs to increase his value throughout the league; he is aware of that as much as Darcy is, and will try and have the best season he's had in a while. He'll get optimal line placement; meaning that he'll be on the second or third lines but no first unless absolutely necessary. They'll do everything they can to increase his value and then he goes by the trade deadline or sooner, depending on when Darcy feels Roy's value has peaked.

 

The Sabres know many fans don't want Roy on the team, but Darcy won't just throw away what he considers a valuable asset.

[dEnnis the Menace]

We got offered a 1st and middling prospect for Roy at the deadline, so I find it hard to believe there's absolutely no market for him. There may not be the market Regier wants there to be, but there's something. And I still maintain that if Roy was as bad as some would have us believe, Regier absolutely would have taken that pick and run with it. But he didn't. So while I'm inclined to believe he's not exactly the role model I want for the young centers, I don't think he's as cancerous as we're being told. As far as the "we were better without him" argument...we had a very similar record from January-April with him this year as without him last year.

 

I think Regier didn't take it because he knew he could get a 1st for Goose, forcing Roy's value to be higher on production alone. Darcy's mindset was that if Goose can bring in a 1st, Roy should be getting a first and a better than a middling prospect player IMO, and I have to agree.

 

I don't know whether or not we are better without him, but I'd like to think that if we can make the right trade, we can make him expendable.

[obstructedorangeseats]

There are enough bad GMs out there who Darcy could theoretically fool into overpaying for Roy, and several teams with competent GMs could probably net us back a decent return of a valuable player (Ott from Dallas, which I know is a favorite around here). I want Roy gone as well, but as others have said, he has value and it's probably higher than we Buffalo fans suspect if only because most of us loathe him. I don't like Roy primarily because of the bad penalties and his terrible diving/acting skills, but in the right role on this team (i.e. not 1st line center) he'd be alright. Part of the blame is on Roy and his "game," part of it is on Regier's roster construction.

[Eleven]

We got offered a 1st and middling prospect for Roy at the deadline, so I find it hard to believe there's absolutely no market for him. There may not be the market Regier wants there to be, but there's something. And I still maintain that if Roy was as bad as some would have us believe, Regier absolutely would have taken that pick and run with it. But he didn't. So while I'm inclined to believe he's not exactly the role model I want for the young centers, I don't think he's as cancerous as we're being told. As far as the "we were better without him" argument...we had a very similar record from January-April with him this year as without him last year.

 

At that price, I'd hang on to him even if he is a jackass. LastPommerFan's got it right.

[TrueBlueGED]

I think Regier didn't take it because he knew he could get a 1st for Goose, forcing Roy's value to be higher on production alone. Darcy's mindset was that if Goose can bring in a 1st, Roy should be getting a first and a better than a middling prospect player IMO, and I have to agree.

 

I don't know whether or not we are better without him, but I'd like to think that if we can make the right trade, we can make him expendable.

 

I agree that that's Regier's mindset. My point was that if Roy is really bringing down the team and makes players worse, Regier would have taken less than market value simply to be rid of him so he doesn't continue to hurt the team and/or hinder our young centers' development. So either Roy isn't as horrible to have around as some claim, or Regier doesn't care about any of it (and from a guy who won't make an in-season trade due to chemistry concerns, I have a hard time believing he'd readily accept a chemistry cancer in his locker room).

 

Edit: Oh, and a player's market value is only as high as the highest bidder is willing to pay. If the highest bid for Roy is a 1st and middling prospect, that's his market value.

[...]

My point was that if Roy is really bringing down the team and makes players worse, Regier would have taken less than market value simply to be rid of him so he doesn't continue to hurt the team and/or hinder our young centers' development.

 

I can't agree with that.

Sorry if this reads like a forum cliche', but I think Darcy has proved over time that he's not so interested, or sensitive to, or able to read, understands, or however you want to put it, "team chemistry" or "locker room culture". Rather, I think Darcy relies on his spreadsheet algorithms, stats, and charts to fit the pieces together, to the team's detriment.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I agree that that's Regier's mindset. My point was that if Roy is really bringing down the team and makes players worse, Regier would have taken less than market value simply to be rid of him so he doesn't continue to hurt the team and/or hinder our young centers' development. So either Roy isn't as horrible to have around as some claim, or Regier doesn't care about any of it (and from a guy who won't make an in-season trade due to chemistry concerns, I have a hard time believing he'd readily accept a chemistry cancer in his locker room).

 

Edit: Oh, and a player's market value is only as high as the highest bidder is willing to pay. If the highest bid for Roy is a 1st and middling prospect, that's his market value.

 

You're right that the market is obviously dictated by the highest bidder, and at the time, since Roy's stats were meager, I don't think there were many suitors lining up. I think that'll change when the FA market opens, or after a little bit into the season when Grigs makes the big boys team and makes Roy expendable like I've been saying. At which point, we can accept the lower market value, as we have better stuff around.

 

Accepting only a first and a small time prospect would've been a slap last year i think, and I know I would've been angry if darcy swindled a first for Goose, and only a first for Roy, because in my mind those two players should not garnish the same return. I think Darcy thought the same thing, whether the market dictated it or not. I'll accept the fact that he didn't take that deal then.

[thesportsbuff]

Paul Hamilton was talking about Roy this morning on my 6am drive in. Specifically, using Roy to trade for X. Hamilton insisted, as he has before, that there is no market whatsoever for Derek Roy right now, as he said last year at the deadline too. He did qualify that and say that the results of post-July 1 may change that, but right now noone wants Roy as part of trades. He has yet to go into any specifics of WHY Roy is so untradeable. We all know he puts up decent numbers, can play a two way game, and has a freindly contract number.

 

WTF is it about Roy that makes him hard to move?

 

 

I know a bunch of you summarily dismiss Hamilton but in my experience if he states it as fact he has sources that have backed his assertion up. I do believe he has sources, be they inside the team or around the league.

 

Well, I hate to call Hamilton a liar -- he is one of the few guys covering the Sabres that I can stand to listen to. But I just cannot fathom him being on point on the Roy situation. I don't believe him when he says the Sabres have been shopping Roy for 3 years or whatever now, and I don't believe him when he says there is no trade market for Roy.

 

I'm sorry, but there is no way that Roy has generated zero interest, meanwhile Mike Richards, who had similar attitude & conduct problems, fetched Brayden Schenn & Wayne Simmonds when traded from Philly to LA. You can say Richards is a No. 1 center and a better player than Roy, but they actually have very similar production, and Roy's contract is (was) both cheaper and shorter-term than Richards. Obviously Richards worked out pretty well for them, but Roy would have been a much cheaper, safer option based on numbers (injury aside). Both players scored 44 pts last year -- if that becomes the norm, Buffalo is paying Roy $4 mil for 1 more year of 44 points, while LAK is paying Richards $5.7 million for 44 points a year until 2020. That's what I mean by Roy being the safer contract.

 

Somebody out there wants Roy, but I don't think the Sabres are "shopping" him as hard as Hamilton claims. Fielding offers is one thing, but actively pursuing a trade is different.

 

If they have been shopping Roy around actively, then the whole process has been a colossal failure. An injury two seasons ago, a bad year last season, and now he's down to "rental" status -- at this point, I think Roy's production this season coming season is perhaps more valuable than anything we could get for him in a trade.

[darksabre]

I just think he's a shitbird. That the long and short of it.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I just think he's a shitbird. That the long and short of it.

 

Roy, Hamilton or both? :rolleyes:

[darksabre]

Roy, Hamilton or both? :rolleyes:

 

Yes.

[nobody]

Was there ever word about who might have made that offer? What if that offer came from Nashville as an either Roy or Gaustad option?

[darksabre]

Was there ever word about who might have made that offer? What if that offer came from Nashville as an either Roy or Gaustad option?

 

I bet it was St. Louis. They could have used another speed guy on offense, but I bet they were low-balling because of Roy's questionable health.

[Weave]

It's not Roy, it's Darcy. Darcy wants too much for Roy, therefore Roy is un-trade-able. Maybe Darcy can get a first for Roy, but Darcy wants a first, a third and a prospect...or pick whatever combination.

 

With that said, I think Roy isn't going anywhere until near to the trade deadline. Roy needs to increase his value throughout the league; he is aware of that as much as Darcy is, and will try and have the best season he's had in a while. He'll get optimal line placement; meaning that he'll be on the second or third lines but no first unless absolutely necessary. They'll do everything they can to increase his value and then he goes by the trade deadline or sooner, depending on when Darcy feels Roy's value has peaked.

 

The Sabres know many fans don't want Roy on the team, but Darcy won't just throw away what he considers a valuable asset.

 

IF Buffalo is in playoff contention at the deadline there is no way Roy is moved. They will keep him for the playoffs. The only way Roy moves mid-season is if the Sabres stink up the joint again.

[darksabre]

 

 

IF Buffalo is in playoff contention at the deadline there is no way Roy is moved. They will keep him for the playoffs. The only way Roy moves mid-season is if the Sabres stink up the joint again.

 

Yup. And I think it's safe to say that unless Darcy is offered a trade where he wins, that Roy will be here all season. We'll be a better team if he have him around even if he's not at the center slot.

 

As much as I hate him, I think he'll be recovered from his injury and be a much better player this season.

[...]

IF Buffalo is in playoff contention at the deadline there is no way Roy is moved. They will keep him for the playoffs. The only way Roy moves mid-season is if the Sabres stink up the joint again.

 

I'm open to being wrong, although in this instance I hope I'm right, but that is not how Darcy thinks. He thinks about numbers and value. The Sabres won't re-sign Roy after the season is over; he's the new Connolly and has worn out his welcome.

[darksabre]

 

 

I'm open to being wrong, although in this instance I hope I'm right, but that is not how Darcy thinks. He thinks about numbers and value. The Sabres won't re-sign Roy after the season is over; he's the new Connolly and has worn out his welcome.

 

You may be right. The deciding factor will be the result of the Grigorenko experiment.

[nfreeman]

I can't agree with that.

Sorry if this reads like a forum cliche', but I think Darcy has proved over time that he's not so interested, or sensitive to, or able to read, understands, or however you want to put it, "team chemistry" or "locker room culture". Rather, I think Darcy relies on his spreadsheet algorithms, stats, and charts to fit the pieces together, to the team's detriment.

 

I agree with this. I don't think DR weighs the "addition by subtraction" factor enough. He undervalues the potential beneficial effect of getting rid of an underperforming, overpaid veteran member of the core "leadership" group -- ie the message about accountability that would be sent to the rest of the team, as well as the opportunity to replace a negative influence with a positive one. Just as importantly, he also undervalues the salary cap room that it would yield.

 

I'm sorry, but there is no way that Roy has generated zero interest, meanwhile Mike Richards, who had similar attitude & conduct problems, fetched Brayden Schenn & Wayne Simmonds when traded from Philly to LA. You can say Richards is a No. 1 center and a better player than Roy, but they actually have very similar production, and Roy's contract is (was) both cheaper and shorter-term than Richards. Obviously Richards worked out pretty well for them, but Roy would have been a much cheaper, safer option based on numbers (injury aside). Both players scored 44 pts last year -- if that becomes the norm, Buffalo is paying Roy $4 mil for 1 more year of 44 points, while LAK is paying Richards $5.7 million for 44 points a year until 2020. That's what I mean by Roy being the safer contract.

 

Well, it isn't zero interest. It's zero interest in giving DR the value he thinks Roy should fetch in trade.

 

And comparing Roy to Richards is ridiculous. This isn't fantasy hockey. Richards was the Flyers captain, is a very tough player who plays a hard game, and was great in their playoff run to the finals a couple of years ago. Roy is a soft party boy who "puts up numbers" in the regular season, disappears in the playoffs, doesn't forecheck and is easy to play against.

 

I just think he's a shitbird. That the long and short of it.

 

Nice.

 

Yup. And I think it's safe to say that unless Darcy is offered a trade where he wins, that Roy will be here all season. We'll be a better team if he have him around even if he's not at the center slot.

 

As much as I hate him, I think he'll be recovered from his injury and be a much better player this season.

 

The only possible benefit I can see to having Roy on the team this year is that he's a contract year kinda guy, so I can see him being quite productive this year.

[X. Benedict]

No market for Roy at this time doesn't mean there won't be. There are no UFA centers in this crop that can skate regular 2nd line minutes and almost half the teams in the league could use help in the middle.

 

Roy might not be the best option, but there are so few options in the market that trades will happen.

 

Besides... if you dump Roy, what's left with Hodgson, Ennis, etc. is a pretty young depth chart. One of those guys goes down and the season is already in peril.

[nucci]

Not a big fan but don't hate him either but he doesn't put up 70 points a year. He has a couple of times.....

 

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/1948/derek-roy