Is Buffalo One Move Away From Being A Cup Contender

[CallawaySabres]

I am still in total shock about the addition of the 2 Centers (I mean, it still has not sunk in). Before the draft, I would have said a Parise/Nash type of player would be great, but not worth the price as there are still big holes to fill at center. For the first time in years, I can see the this team as now being a Parise/Nash away from really making a run at the Cup.

 

With extra pieces such as Ennis (although he still might be core piece), Stafford, Roy and Sekera, Buffalo might have a shot at getting a Top notch trade partner. It might take a McNabb type to land a Nash but the point is, a top Forward comes up every year via trade or FA and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Whether we get that missing piece this year or next, it just became a lot easier to take that next step after this draft. Nice work FO, nice work.

[Weave]

I kind of doubt it. I think they are one move away from being a decent playoff team, but not a real contender. (and I know that there are folks here who would argue that decent playoff team = contender, I'm not one of them. There is a difference in my book)

 

IMO contender status is more likely if/when the fruits of the last 2 drafts start having a substantial impact. In my head that happens when Armia, Grigorenko, and Girgensens (sp?) are all becoming depended upon players, say 2-3 seasons out. By then Myers as about at his peak, so is Ennis, and Foligno and McNabb are fully developed.

[dudacek]

C'mon Weave, Ott for Roy and we're there.

[bunomatic]

I kind of doubt it. I think they are one move away from being a decent playoff team, but not a real contender. (and I know that there are folks here who would argue that decent playoff team = contender, I'm not one of them. There is a difference in my book)

 

IMO contender status is more likely if/when the fruits of the last 2 drafts start having a substantial impact. In my head that happens when Armia, Grigorenko, and Girgensens (sp?) are all becoming depended upon players, say 2-3 seasons out. By then Myers as about at his peak, so is Ennis, and Foligno and McNabb are fully developed.

 

I agree. The heart and soul win at all costs guys with size have only been targeted the last couple of draft years and they will take a while to develop. Its only been a couple of years since Darcy woke up to the fact that a team of midgets can't win in a league where every team is trying to develop big tough wrecking balls that would just as soon go through you then go around you. There's a place for skilled waterbugs,just not a roster of them. Our ratio is changing and hopefully we see the benefits of that change in philosophy real soon.

[TrueBlueGED]

If our top prospects develop as we all hope they do, I'd argue that not only will we be a Cup contender in a couple years, but possibly a Cup favorite. It's entirely dependent on how these guys develop though. I like being optimistic, but the realist in me says not all of Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia, Pysyk, McNabb, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno and Myers become what we want them to be. There's bound to be at least a couple who don't reach maximum potential. That said, as Robviously pointed out in the draft thread, when was the last time we had this many high-ceiling prospects? All that needs to happen is for a few of these guys to "boom" and the rest to become valuable pieces.

 

Looking around the league, the best teams have a core of a few stars surrounded by very good pieces. I know people will point out toughness (both mental and physical) and size as the difference between the Sabres and the top teams in the league, and I will agree that's part of it, but I don't think it's the majority of it. I think the Sabres' biggest problem is they have a lot of good pieces, but no star players. But if only 2-3 of the top prospects hit and hit big, it's a whole different story. For the first time in a long while I believe the system is actually stocked and built to become a great hockey team, BUT, development is critical now. If none of these guys become stars, then in 3 years we'll be in the same place we are now--a collection of nice pieces that can sometimes look great and sometimes look awful.

 

Edit: To more directly address the question in hand, I don't believe the Sabres are one move away...they're one move and development away. At this point I want nothing to do with mortgaging the future for the present. That doesn't preclude a big move, but I think that move has to have legs well into the future (which is why I think a guy like Ryan would be perfect). In my view, any moves made right now need to benefit both now and 3 years from now, OR be a relatively cheap stop-gap (such as Ott) to bridge from now until our high-end prospects are ready. I have a feeling the Sabres feel this way as well, but we'll have to wait another week or two to see for sure.

[Weave]

I agree. The heart and soul win at all costs guys with size have only been targeted the last couple of draft years and they will take a while to develop. Its only been a couple of years since Darcy woke up to the fact that a team of midgets can't win in a league where every team is trying to develop big tough wrecking balls that would just as soon go through you then go around you. There's a place for skilled waterbugs,just not a roster of them. Our ratio is changing and hopefully we see the benefits of that change in philosophy real soon.

 

I'll go a little further than that and add that as long as players like Vanek, Roy, and Stafford are expected to lead and carry the load the team won't be a contender. *IF* they are still here when the fruits of the last two drafts really take hold they will be much more heavily supported and won't need to be relied upon so heavily. This is when I see Buffalo's chances really coming together.

 

*assumes that the 1st rounders of the last two drafts develop into what they were projected*

 

If our top prospects develop as we all hope they do, I'd argue that not only will we be a Cup contender in a couple years, but possibly a Cup favorite. It's entirely dependent on how these guys develop though. I like being optimistic, but the realist in me says not all of Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia, Pysyk, McNabb, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno and Myers become what we want them to be. There's bound to be at least a couple who don't reach maximum potential. That said, as Robviously pointed out in the draft thread, when was the last time we had this many high-ceiling prospects? All that needs to happen is for a few of these guys to "boom" and the rest to become valuable pieces.

 

Looking around the league, the best teams have a core of a few stars surrounded by very good pieces. I know people will point out toughness (both mental and physical) and size as the difference between the Sabres and the top teams in the league, and I will agree that's part of it, but I don't think it's the majority of it. I think the Sabres' biggest problem is they have a lot of good pieces, but no star players. But if only 2-3 of the top prospects hit and hit big, it's a whole different story. For the first time in a long while I believe the system is actually stocked and built to become a great hockey team, BUT, development is critical now. If none of these guys become stars, then in 3 years we'll be in the same place we are now--a collection of nice pieces that can sometimes look great and sometimes look awful.

 

I think the two players with the greatest potential to not develop as hoped are Pysyk and McNabb. And if the others develop as hoped we won't need Pysyk and McNabb to fully bloom.

[Eleven]

2 moves. A center who is ready to play as a no. 1 center, and someone with a heart to replace Stafford.

[CallawaySabres]

I suppose I should have clarified a little further - With the addition of a Parise type player, I believe Buffalo will have the roster to do some major damage. I don't think all these additions will transorm into a Cup this year but I do believe that the proper additions will have been made and the time to make a run will come much sooner than I had expected 48 hours ago.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Yes.....for there to be a lockout and a 30 game season where the 2005 rules are enforced.

[fan2456]

I am still in total shock about the addition of the 2 Centers (I mean, it still has not sunk in). Before the draft, I would have said a Parise/Nash type of player would be great, but not worth the price as there are still big holes to fill at center. For the first time in years, I can see the this team as now being a Parise/Nash away from really making a run at the Cup.

 

With extra pieces such as Ennis (although he still might be core piece), Stafford, Roy and Sekera, Buffalo might have a shot at getting a Top notch trade partner. It might take a McNabb type to land a Nash but the point is, a top Forward comes up every year via trade or FA and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Whether we get that missing piece this year or next, it just became a lot easier to take that next step after this draft. Nice work FO, nice work.

 

 

After watching the final eight in the playoffs the last two years, I was convinced we were not a cup contender. I watched those players sell out their bodies to win, and I just don't feel we had enough players with the physical and/or mental skill set to contend for a cup in this league. We are much further away from a cup than one skill forward. With this in mind, I was happy to see how we drafted. Like Weave, I see it moving us away from the Gerbe's of the world. Love his heart and skill, but it is trapped in a career AHL body.Weave is spot on about Vanek, Stafford etc. This draft actually made me feel better about Regeir and his acceptance of what it really takes to win a cup. He may be warming to the idea that this isn't 2006. I wouldn't go crazy to get one guy yet, we need several. The development of this draft along with the bigger skill players drafted in the last couple of years might be a start.

[HopefulFuture]

If our top prospects develop as we all hope they do, I'd argue that not only will we be a Cup contender in a couple years, but possibly a Cup favorite. It's entirely dependent on how these guys develop though. I like being optimistic, but the realist in me says not all of Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia, Pysyk, McNabb, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno and Myers become what we want them to be. There's bound to be at least a couple who don't reach maximum potential. That said, as Robviously pointed out in the draft thread, when was the last time we had this many high-ceiling prospects? All that needs to happen is for a few of these guys to "boom" and the rest to become valuable pieces.

 

Looking around the league, the best teams have a core of a few stars surrounded by very good pieces. I know people will point out toughness (both mental and physical) and size as the difference between the Sabres and the top teams in the league, and I will agree that's part of it, but I don't think it's the majority of it. I think the Sabres' biggest problem is they have a lot of good pieces, but no star players. But if only 2-3 of the top prospects hit and hit big, it's a whole different story. For the first time in a long while I believe the system is actually stocked and built to become a great hockey team, BUT, development is critical now. If none of these guys become stars, then in 3 years we'll be in the same place we are now--a collection of nice pieces that can sometimes look great and sometimes look awful.

 

Edit: To more directly address the question in hand, I don't believe the Sabres are one move away...they're one move and development away. At this point I want nothing to do with mortgaging the future for the present. That doesn't preclude a big move, but I think that move has to have legs well into the future (which is why I think a guy like Ryan would be perfect). In my view, any moves made right now need to benefit both now and 3 years from now, OR be a relatively cheap stop-gap (such as Ott) to bridge from now until our high-end prospects are ready. I have a feeling the Sabres feel this way as well, but we'll have to wait another week or two to see for sure.

 

I agree with your thoughts here.

And I too, am hoping they snag Ryan, not just for the scoring but also for the length and cost of his services.

[drnkirishone]

I think they are a player or 2 away from having as good a chance as any team come playoff time. Does that mean they are a contender? I don't think so. As has been pointed out I think 2 seasons from now when the past 2 draft years of bigger gritter players are coming into their game and they are mixing with the smaller more skilled players is when this team will be dominant. 2-3 season from now if we are not winning our division and fighting for the confernce I will be shocked and disappointed

 

If I was advising Pegula I would tell him we need to make the conditions in Rochester near perfect for developing our talent coming up. We need to give Rolston whatever he needs staff/training equipment. We need to find some solid veteran players that can/will assist and lead our prospects in showing them what it takes to maximize their potential.

[Taro T]

I'm still in the 2 player away camp - a center (ideally a #1) a power winger (ideally RW to play w/ new center and Vanek) and there needs to be at least 1 more 'core' player removed from a leadership role. My preference of that being Derek Roy is no secret - I think he has good value on the trade market (ppg players, which is what he was showing prior to the quad injury, tend to bring a pretty good return) and he just doesn't seem to raise the level of the players that are with him. I do expect at least 1 GM/coaching combo out there believe that they can get him to raise the level of those around him, and that makes me choose him to be expendable.

 

If they bring in 1 player and have a core member go away, I think they become a dark horse contender, but they'd need a lot of dominoes to fall the right way to pull off an LA style run.

 

But I really like where this LOOKS like it's heading 2-3 years from now. One concern (besides the already oft-stated realization that some of these kids won't pan out) is that there isn't an obvious backstop them to the Finals goalie 3 years out. Miller will not likely be a Brodeur or Thomas that can stay at a high level deep into his 30's and will likely be tailing off by then. Enroth is just too small for me to have faith that he can be an everyday #1 in the NHL (though I think he makes for an ideal #2). Maybe Ullmark will pan out, but even if he does he's probably about 2 additional years further out. Obviously there's time to get the 3 year out goalie into the system, but I'd like to see that successor sooner rather than later.

[tom webster]

Three things;

1) I don't think this team would fare well under 2005 rules

2) I agree almost entirely with Taro's assessment

3) I feel the need to say this out loud, Drew Stafford will score 35 goals and record 125 huts next year

[drnkirishone]

Three things;

1) I don't think this team would fare well under 2005 rules

2) I agree almost entirely with Taro's assessment

3) I feel the need to say this out loud, Drew Stafford will score 35 goals and record 125 huts next year

 

That is some serious optimism you are showing there lol. I would like to agree with you but after seeing him struggle scoring last year I don't think 35 goals will happen. I think it is more likely he gets 40 assists then 35 goals. I could see Ennis netting 35 thou

[Huckleberry]

Actually, I don't see us landing Ryan, parise or Nash,

Nash will come at a cost, that is rumoured to be way to hight for any team to go for.

Ryan has his choice teams to go to, and i doubt were in that mix.

Parise we might have a shot with but again im pessimistic we'll land him, he wants to go to a contender i think.

 

I'd just go all out for semin at this point, i can see him excelling in a team where he isn't the second left winger behind ovechkin.

[gregkash]

Assuming the team stays healthy I do believe they are one bonafied star player away. A clutch goal scorer. It doesn't even have to be a 50 goal guy, I think Vanek can fill that roll on a team with multiple scoring lines. A 30 goal scorer but more improtantly someone who scores when the game is on the line is what we need.

[Bullwinkle III]

Let's be realistic. We're not one player away from being a Cup contender, we're about three years away. (And at my age, I'm just hoping to live that long.)

 

First of all, we're not going to land Parise, Nash, Semin or Ryan. They want to go to big teams for big bucks and with the cap being raised again, they'll get it. I think we'll be doing very well to get Ott.

 

The three years will give time for Grigorenko, McNabb, Myers, Ennis, and Foligno to blossom. These guys will be the core. Add a supporting cast of good players and you have yourself a contender.

 

Whenever you feel the urge to think of the Sabres a Cup contender, stop a moment and think about Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury, and perhaps Parise and/or Suter. That image will sober you up fast.

[HopefulFuture]

Let's be realistic. We're not one player away from being a Cup contender, we're about three years away. (And at my age, I'm just hoping to live that long.)

 

First of all, we're not going to land Parise, Nash, Semin or Ryan. They want to go to big teams for big bucks and with the cap being raised again, they'll get it. I think we'll be doing very well to get Ott.

 

The three years will give time for Grigorenko, McNabb, Myers, Ennis, and Foligno to blossom. These guys will be the core. Add a supporting cast of good players and you have yourself a contender.

 

Whenever you feel the urge to think of the Sabres a Cup contender, stop a moment and think about Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury, and perhaps Parise and/or Suter. That image will sober you up fast.

 

While I agree were more than 1 player away, I disagree with the 3 years from now time frame.

 

As far as Parise, Nash, Semin or Ryan go, I believe the Sabres may land one of them. I'm hoping Ryan, but believing Nash or Semin are more likely.

Steve Ott wouldn't be out of the question as the line 3/4 center.

 

I agree this season will give those young players you listed time to gel and find the right chemistry. But I also believe Grigorenko has the 3rd line center position and excels this season.

 

And your last point, about the Penguins, I tend to agree with as well. Looking back at the Cup winners since the lockout, correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the winners since then had at least one star player that was a clutch performer.

[Sabre Dance]

The short answer is "No". The longer answer is that Darcy is finally realizing what kind of players are needed to acheive playoff success (and apparently now has the backing from ownership to go draft/trade for them). I think this year's draft was quite good, but how much of an impact the GGs have in the short term is a huge unknown. I would like to see more stability in goal (Tim Thomas in 2013 pehaps?) and (not to beat a long-dead horse) I remain unconvinced that the current coaching staff can get max performance out of whatever players are on the roster. If all the planets line up, the Sabres might be able to make a Cup run in the three-to-five year range. I think that the new owner has discovered that it is much tougher to build a Cup-capable team than he first envisioned (especially when remaining steadfastly dedicated to the current GM-coach combo).

That being said, in five years, I will be getting ready to retire. I don't forsee myself staying in the WNY area after that. I will remain a Sabres fan for the rest of my life, but my fervent hope of seeing a Stanley Cup won by the Sabres (in person) may not happen. It bothers me that other NHL teams, through some savvy trades, free agent pickups and a good core of draftees have built a Cup winner in just a few seasons. With the right captain at the helm, the Sabres could do this if they wanted to. But, we have chosen to take the long and winding road. (Sorry, I'm being way too philosphical for a Monday morning...)

[CallawaySabres]

Let's be realistic. We're not one player away from being a Cup contender, we're about three years away. (And at my age, I'm just hoping to live that long.)

 

First of all, we're not going to land Parise, Nash, Semin or Ryan. They want to go to big teams for big bucks and with the cap being raised again, they'll get it. I think we'll be doing very well to get Ott.

 

The three years will give time for Grigorenko, McNabb, Myers, Ennis, and Foligno to blossom. These guys will be the core. Add a supporting cast of good players and you have yourself a contender.

 

Whenever you feel the urge to think of the Sabres a Cup contender, stop a moment and think about Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury, and perhaps Parise and/or Suter. That image will sober you up fast.

 

I don't think this can be the mindframe anymore and Darcy has proved it in the first year of the Pegula Regime. I honestly don't think you can rule the Sabres out of any big time deal from here on out. Don't be surprised if you hear a big name being thrown around with the Sabres being one of the teams mentioned.

[darksabre]

I don't think this can be the mindframe anymore and Darcy has proved it in the first year of the Pegula Regime. I honestly don't think you can rule the Sabres out of any big time deal from here on out. Don't be surprised if you hear a big name being thrown around with the Sabres being one of the teams mentioned.

 

I normally disagree with everything Bullwinkle writes, but in this case he and I are in agreement. I just don't see the Sabre throwing in their hat with these big-name free agents.

 

The main reason having to do with what he have tied up in salary elsewhere. Ville Leino and Thomas Vanek come to mind. And our younger guys are going to start getting paid big bucks. I imagine Ennis is going to get a pretty nice RFA deal. Hodgson is an RFA next season and Regehr is a UFA, so money has to come from somewhere for them.

 

The only way I see the Sabres making a play for one of the big free agents is if they can move salary in Vanek or Leino.

[TrueBlueGED]

Let's be realistic. We're not one player away from being a Cup contender, we're about three years away. (And at my age, I'm just hoping to live that long.)

 

First of all, we're not going to land Parise, Nash, Semin or Ryan. They want to go to big teams for big bucks and with the cap being raised again, they'll get it. I think we'll be doing very well to get Ott.

 

The three years will give time for Grigorenko, McNabb, Myers, Ennis, and Foligno to blossom. These guys will be the core. Add a supporting cast of good players and you have yourself a contender.

 

Whenever you feel the urge to think of the Sabres a Cup contender, stop a moment and think about Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury, and perhaps Parise and/or Suter. That image will sober you up fast.

 

The presence of Fleury in net has to negate at least 2 of those guys :P

 

 

The short answer is "No". The longer answer is that Darcy is finally realizing what kind of players are needed to acheive playoff success (and apparently now has the backing from ownership to go draft/trade for them). I think this year's draft was quite good, but how much of an impact the GGs have in the short term is a huge unknown. I would like to see more stability in goal (Tim Thomas in 2013 pehaps?) and (not to beat a long-dead horse) I remain unconvinced that the current coaching staff can get max performance out of whatever players are on the roster. If all the planets line up, the Sabres might be able to make a Cup run in the three-to-five year range. I think that the new owner has discovered that it is much tougher to build a Cup-capable team than he first envisioned (especially when remaining steadfastly dedicated to the current GM-coach combo).

That being said, in five years, I will be getting ready to retire. I don't forsee myself staying in the WNY area after that. I will remain a Sabres fan for the rest of my life, but my fervent hope of seeing a Stanley Cup won by the Sabres (in person) may not happen. It bothers me that other NHL teams, through some savvy trades, free agent pickups and a good core of draftees have built a Cup winner in just a few seasons. With the right captain at the helm, the Sabres could do this if they wanted to. But, we have chosen to take the long and winding road. (Sorry, I'm being way too philosphical for a Monday morning...)

 

Stability and Tim Thomas in the same sentence? The guy who walked away suddenly, will take a year off, and want to make a comeback at 39?

[Sabre Dance]

The presence of Fleury in net has to negate at least 2 of those guys :P

 

 

 

 

Stability and Tim Thomas in the same sentence? The guy who walked away suddenly, will take a year off, and want to make a comeback at 39?

 

I see your point - I meant stability as far as his play, not his mental state....although the two are certainly intertwined. OK, it's Monday and the caffeine hasn't hit the bloodstream yet.....

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

If you can pull off Ott for Roy (an idea which i love by the way), and trade for Ryan, then i think by the time we get Girgensons and Grigorenko some experience (1 or 2 years) in the big leagues, we really might have something here. The team in question would look something like this.

 

Vanek - Grigorenko - Ryan

Ennis - Hodgeson - Foligno

Tropp - Girgensons - Leino*

McCormick - Ott- Kaleta

 

Myers McNabb

Ehrhoff Sekera

Pysyk Regher

 

*As much as i hate the idea of Losing pommer, if we dont renegotiate his contract to a lower figure im not sure we can afford him. If we can plug him in at Leinos position that would be ideal, then we could keep Leino as a depth forward.

 

This is my forecast for the team in 2 or 3 years time