Eleven Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Odds are Darcy makes a minor tweek or two and stands pat going into next season hoping for a perfect storm and a lack of injuries so as to just squeak into the playoffs and become the 2nd team in N.H.L. history to win the cup as an eighth seed. Hell, not even DeLuca is that pessimistic. What are you basing that on? DR has been working the phones hard, from all accounts.
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Odds are Darcy makes a minor tweek or two and stands pat going into next season hoping for a perfect storm and a lack of injuries so as to just squeak into the playoffs and become the 2nd team in N.H.L. history to win the cup as an eighth seed. Nah! Darcy is a go getter. He is devising a plan right now to be the first team to win the Cup as a ninth seed! :w00t:
Eleven Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I have a real concern that the Staal trade is going to set off fireworks in the East this off-season. I hope the Sabres are in the middle of it all. Now is not the time to sit back. Agreed, now is NOT the time to sit back. There are a couple of changes that could make a real difference. The question is whether the Sabres can find the right trading partners.
inkman Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 The Sabres picks made me feel like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57IoQcuKPxc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
TrueBlueGED Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I have a real concern that the Staal trade is going to set off fireworks in the East this off-season. I hope the Sabres are in the middle of it all. Now is not the time to sit back. I look at it this way. If the Sabres don't do anything, it basically tells me they think they can be a playoff team right now, but the real run for the Cup begins in 2013 and beyond when the young players have experience and we have some of our best prospects with the team. Which I'm totally okay with. More than anything else I wanted to see the team have some kind of plan to get to where they want to go, and if the plan is for 2013 I'm happy. The absolute last thing I wanted is for them to be like Calgary, twisting in the wind with absolutely no direction at all.
Eleven Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Hell, not even DeLuca is that pessimistic. What are you basing that on? DR has been working the phones hard, from all accounts. Nah! Darcy is a go getter. He is devising a plan right now to be the first team to win the Cup as a ninth seed! :w00t: I stand corrected. DeLuca is that pessimistic.
Robviously Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Hell, not even DeLuca is that pessimistic. What are you basing that on? DR has been working the phones hard, from all accounts. To be fair, DR's ability to call other teams has never been questioned. His ability to complete a big trade during that call is suspect. (There's also his ability to use a fax machine but hopefully that never comes up again.)
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I look at it this way. If the Sabres don't do anything, it basically tells me they think they can be a playoff team right now, but the real run for the Cup begins in 2013 and beyond when the young players have experience and we have some of our best prospects with the team. Which I'm totally okay with. More than anything else I wanted to see the team have some kind of plan to get to where they want to go, and if the plan is for 2013 I'm happy. The absolute last thing I wanted is for them to be like Calgary, twisting in the wind with absolutely no direction at all. What the hell is going on there?
Taro T Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I look at it this way. If the Sabres don't do anything, it basically tells me they think they can be a playoff team right now, but the real run for the Cup begins in 2013 and beyond when the young players have experience and we have some of our best prospects with the team. Which I'm totally okay with. More than anything else I wanted to see the team have some kind of plan to get to where they want to go, and if the plan is for 2013 I'm happy. The absolute last thing I wanted is for them to be like Calgary, twisting in the wind with absolutely no direction at all. The more I think about it, the more I really wish that Ryan & Hiller for Miller was more than just idle rumor. That would make them better today and tomorrow. (Which is why it's just idle rumor.)
bunomatic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Hell, not even DeLuca is that pessimistic. What are you basing that on? DR has been working the phones hard, from all accounts. Working the phones and getting er done are two separate realities. That being said at least he drafted centres. That should help this team compete in 2 or 3 years.
Robviously Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I look at it this way. If the Sabres don't do anything, it basically tells me they think they can be a playoff team right now, but the real run for the Cup begins in 2013 and beyond when the young players have experience and we have some of our best prospects with the team. Which I'm totally okay with. More than anything else I wanted to see the team have some kind of plan to get to where they want to go, and if the plan is for 2013 I'm happy. The absolute last thing I wanted is for them to be like Calgary, twisting in the wind with absolutely no direction at all. Right. I can't remember the last time the Sabres had so many high-ceiling prospects, and I think I could have said that a few months ago as well. And a lot of the guys we'd be counting on for a run a couple years from now are already on the team.
TrueBlueGED Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 What the hell is going on there? It seems like they don't want to admit they're a team that needs to rebuild. From all accounts they have a very limited prospect pool, an old roster, yet aren't good enough to make the playoffs. Might be a GM trying to save his own behind by not selling off Iginla and Kiprusoff to rebuild. Not sure, but I think they're wandering in no-man's land right now.
Eleven Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Working the phones and getting er done are two separate realities. That being said at least he drafted centres. That should help this team compete in 2 or 3 years. How many teams made deals today?
Taro T Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 How many teams made deals today? I can only think of 4 trades ottomh. Visnovski, Ribiero, Staal, and 14 for 21 & 42.
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 It seems like they don't want to admit they're a team that needs to rebuild. From all accounts they have a very limited prospect pool, an old roster, yet aren't good enough to make the playoffs. Might be a GM trying to save his own behind by not selling off Iginla and Kiprusoff to rebuild. Not sure, but I think they're wandering in no-man's land right now. They have a rabid fan base there. They should bite the bullet and clean house.
bunomatic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 How many teams made deals today? A few. Anyways there's always tomorrow for Darcy. Believe me. Since it became apparent that Darcy was'nt going anywhere I'm trying my best to have faith in Regiers ability to get us back into contention. :cry:
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 A few. Anyways there's always tomorrow for Darcy. Believe me. Since it became apparent that Darcy was'nt going anywhere I'm trying my best to have faith in Regiers ability to get us back into contention. :cry: This isn't meant as an insult, there is nothing Regier, or any other GM, can do this off-season to make the Sabres a Stanley Cup contender in 2012-13. If we can all agree on that we can all have a great hockey conversation. For example: Did the Sabres maximize the assets they had available to them as of today? They burned 3 picks on two centers that, best case scenario, fill many of the teams needs including being Centers, size and talent. I like the type of players they drafted today, we'll see over time if they make the NHL and have a impact.
darksabre Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Agreed, now is NOT the time to sit back. There are a couple of changes that could make a real difference. The question is whether the Sabres can find the right trading partners. The fact that you and I both agree with deluca sure is a sign of the times. No wonder my phone corrects deluca to delicate.
bunomatic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 This isn't meant as an insult, there is nothing Regier, or any other GM, can do this off-season to make the Sabres a Stanley Cup contender in 2012-13. If we can all agree on that we can all have a great hockey conversation. For example: Did the Sabres maximize the assets they had available to them as of today? They burned 3 picks on two centers that, best case scenario, fill many of the teams needs including being Centers, size and talent. I like the type of players they drafted today, we'll see over time if they make the NHL and have a impact. Agreed. Your point is spot on and what I meant by saying there is always tomorrow for Darcy. Darcy always looks to the future. He's done pretty good stocking the cupboard. I'm not saying thats bad but sometimes you have to think about the here and now. It would be nice to contend or at least compete again. I'm so done with this just trying to get into the playoffs.
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Agreed. Your point is spot on and what I meant by saying there is always tomorrow for Darcy. Darcy always looks to the future. He's done pretty good stocking the cupboard. I'm not saying thats bad but sometimes you have to think about the here and now. It would be nice to contend or at least compete again. I'm so done with this just trying to get into the playoffs. Lets hope the saying that "the draft is about tomorrow, July 1st is about here and now" rings true. It would be great if the Sabres could contend right away. Right now the Sabres are stuck in an awkward spot. The "core" they thought would bring success hasn't worked out. They have some young talent in Myers, Ennis and Foligno. I don't think the youngsters are ready to take over as the "core." It's makes it more difficult when the previous "core" is pretty much intact minus Gaustad. TrueBlue said he thought the Sabres have recognized that they can't win with the roster as is. I hope that is true and we see a real stripping down of the roster.
dudacek Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 I dropped a few f bombs when Staal went to Carolina. And I definitely wanted to see a big trade today. Other than that, I can''t think of a better way for the draft to have gone down. The biggest holes in our pipeline were: big, skilled potential first line centre, Big nasty physical centre with skill. We have got the best matches for each role in the entire draft.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 OK.......that works. I'm pretty sure Eleven will still be buying $100 worth of puppy toys at the end of the season, but this helps 2-3 years from now. The Russian kid is NOT going to get along with Lindy. He has a personality!
IKnowPhysics Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 My opinion of Regier hasn't changed with this draft. I still think he is an extremely competent and capable general manager. TL;DR: We did good. ==================== While I think our picking Grigorenko required a bit of luck for him to fall to 12th, but he did end up being a bit of a no-brainer pick. He was the best available player and an excellent fit for our long term and probably also short term roster needs. Grigs is highly skilled and likely physically ready to play in the NHL, but I'm not sure what his mental game, especially defensive responsibility is like. Hockey Prospectus put Grigs at the 2nd best talent available in the draft, with the only detractions possibly being work ethic: Grigorenko is a clear top-two talent in the 2012 draft class. Based on scouts that I've talked to, my own observations and other observers throughout a good portion of the draft year, this seemed to be a shared thought. Grigorenko's on-ice work ethic problems have never been anything new, yet were never considered anything major enough to truly devalue him. It looked very accentuated towards the end of the season Some bloggers believe that the contentions of him being lazy or lying about his age are being overblown to hide the fear of taking the risk on a player that could go to the KHL, despite how may times he states that he's committed to North America: It's unclear exactly how many times both Nail Yakupov (and Grigorenko too) will have to swear up and down on a stack of rejected NHL/KHL transfer agreements that they won't go back to Russia to ply their trade before the media accept, "I'm committed to North American hockey," as an answer they want to hear.And if they're not good enough, then [critics will say] they're the typical Russians we always thought they were, and who cares if they stay in the KHL anyway. Some analysts speculate that he's one of the few players ready to play in the NHL now, but because he's a KHL threat, he should have been dropped as low as #5: Despite the fact that he is 6'3" and 200 lbs and dominated the QMJHL in his first year in North America, forward Mikhail Grigorenko has precipitously fallen out of favor with NHL scouts and general managers. Talent has nothing to do with it as Grigorenko may be second to none in that regard this year, but there are extenuating circumstances such as his effort level and the threat that he could bolt for the Russian KHL at any time...Grigorenko is one of only four or five players who are ready to play in the NHL now... We selected a player that was ranked very highly by most scouts but fell down the rankings late in the game, possibly due to overblown or false rumors/speculation and Russian stigma. I think if Grigorenko was North American, he would have likely been picked much higher. As is, we nabbed elite top-of-the-draft talent at #12. The only risk is whether he's lazy or going to bail to the KHL, and his hall of fame coach said he isn't lazy and he himself insists he isn't going to the KHL... There’s questions about work ethic, that he takes shifts off. He did not impress in the league’s playoffs, largely because of a bout of mononucleosis. And there’s murmurs that all Russian players will take the money and run back home to play in the KHL. Grigorenko has insisted for weeks that’s not the case and said it again here Friday.“I will improve my weaknesses and I think I will be ready to play in the NHL next year,” he said.Grigorenko came to Canada to play for the Quebec Ramparts – coached by the legendary Patrick Roy – and said he was thrilled at the results.Roy has told all comers Grigorenko was worth the pick. Sabres coach Lindy Ruff had a chance meeting with Roy here Thursday and got the same report.“That all came back very positive,” said General Manager Darcy Regier. “Patrick is a huge believer.”“He’s made a huge commitment to be an NHL player,” Roy said this week to Sportsnet.ca. “When people question his work ethic, it’s not true, he works hard all the time. The thing that we need to work on with him is to get his stamina to another level. He gets tired fast, but that doesn’t mean a player doesn’t work hard.” I think we maximized the hell out of that asset. While I think our picking Grigorenko required a bit of luck for him to fall to 12th, but he did end up being a bit of a no-brainer pick. He was the best available player and an excellent fit for our long term and probably also short term roster needs. Grigs is highly skilled and likely physically ready to play in the NHL, but I'm not sure what his mental game, especially defensive responsibility is like. Hockey Prospectus put Grigs at the 2nd best talent available in the draft, with the only detractions possibly being work ethic: Grigorenko is a clear top-two talent in the 2012 draft class. Based on scouts that I've talked to, my own observations and other observers throughout a good portion of the draft year, this seemed to be a shared thought. Grigorenko's on-ice work ethic problems have never been anything new, yet were never considered anything major enough to truly devalue him. It looked very accentuated towards the end of the season... Some bloggers believe that the contentions of him being lazy or lying about his age are being overblown to hide the fear of taking the risk on a player that could go to the KHL, despite how may times he states that he's committed to North America: It's unclear exactly how many times both Nail Yakupov (and Grigorenko too) will have to swear up and down on a stack of rejected NHL/KHL transfer agreements that they won't go back to Russia to ply their trade before the media accept, "I'm committed to North American hockey," as an answer they want to hear.And if they're not good enough, then [critics will say] they're the typical Russians we always thought they were, and who cares if they stay in the KHL anyway. Some analysts speculate that he's one of the few players ready to play in the NHL now, but because he's a KHL threat, he should have been dropped as low as #5: Despite the fact that he is 6'3" and 200 lbs and dominated the QMJHL in his first year in North America, forward Mikhail Grigorenko has precipitously fallen out of favor with NHL scouts and general managers. Talent has nothing to do with it as Grigorenko may be second to none in that regard this year, but there are extenuating circumstances such as his effort level and the threat that he could bolt for the Russian KHL at any time...Grigorenko is one of only four or five players who are ready to play in the NHL now... We selected a player that was ranked very highly by most scouts but fell down the rankings late in the game, possibly due to overblown or false rumors/speculation and Russian stigma. I think if Grigorenko was North American, he would have likely been picked much higher. As is, we nabbed elite top-of-the-draft talent at #12. The only risk is whether he's lazy or going to bail to the KHL, and his hall of fame coach said he isn't lazy and he himself insists he isn't going to the KHL... There’s questions about work ethic, that he takes shifts off. He did not impress in the league’s playoffs, largely because of a bout of mononucleosis. And there’s murmurs that all Russian players will take the money and run back home to play in the KHL. Grigorenko has insisted for weeks that’s not the case and said it again here Friday.“I will improve my weaknesses and I think I will be ready to play in the NHL next year,” he said.Grigorenko came to Canada to play for the Quebec Ramparts – coached by the legendary Patrick Roy – and said he was thrilled at the results.Roy has told all comers Grigorenko was worth the pick. Sabres coach Lindy Ruff had a chance meeting with Roy here Thursday and got the same report.“That all came back very positive,” said General Manager Darcy Regier. “Patrick is a huge believer.”“He’s made a huge commitment to be an NHL player,” Roy said this week to Sportsnet.ca. “When people question his work ethic, it’s not true, he works hard all the time. The thing that we need to work on with him is to get his stamina to another level. He gets tired fast, but that doesn’t mean a player doesn’t work hard.” I think we maximized the hell out of that asset, and as things shake out, I think a lot of picks before ours are going to get second-guessed because of him. ==================== The trade for the 14th pick is somewhat revealing about the directions of Calgary and Buffalo. Calgary is in a defacto discount rebuild mode, they'll try to maximize value and pick up picks. Buffalo is heading in a win sooner than later mode, trying to take players that will have an impact sooner than later. So when Calgary thinks they can take the player they want later in the round and pick up an extra pick, and Buffalo sees an opportunity to grab a player that could be substantially better seven picks ahead, it's reasonable to see them work it out. The question remains: was it worth a 2nd round pick to move up from 21 to 14? My answer: absolutely. Organizationally, were looking for centers, and three of the seven teams between the 14th and 21st pick selected centers. This move allowed us to skip from potentially selecting the 7th center (or some other position) to selecting the 4th center available in the draft. An analogous move could be seen in the 2007 draft: going from Colton Gillies (7th center, 16th overall) to Logan Couture (4th center, 9th overall) at the expense of someone between roughly TJ Brennan and Drew Scheistel. ==================== Zemgus Girgensons was ranked 14th by Hockey Prospectus, with only Glachenyuk and Faksa ranked higher as centers and above center Thomas Hertl at 18th: Girgensons is a great do-it-all player who can create offense from his natural skill and still be a fan favorite because of his intangibles... Girgensons is a dangerous puck handler who I'd say is above-average to plus in that area as he can certainly make players miss and at times he can be a pretty flashy player. At other times, though, Girgensons can be a straight-ahead gritty type of power forward who drives the net, gets in people's faces after the whistle, and will lay out big hit after big hit. He also shows a diligent work ethic at both ends, and is very responsible and smart defensively for his age, which has garnered trust from his coach to play him in a lot of tough defensive minutes. He sounds like a hard-working, gritty playmaker that'll become a favorite because he busts ass and makes plays. I also think that he'll fit in superbly with Ruff's two-way system while adding a great amount of toughness to the forward lineup. If he doesn't pan out as a top six power playmaking forward, he could likely make it as a 3rd/4th line center that eats up defensive minutes and excels on the PK- like a more talented and more gritty Paul Gaustad. I think Zemgus is a pretty low-risk pick that addresses medium/longer term needs very well. I have a hard time seeing other available players that are a better fit for the Sabres at the time of this pick. I think this pick was well used.
Bullwinkle III Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 This isn't meant as an insult, there is nothing Regier, or any other GM, can do this off-season to make the Sabres a Stanley Cup contender in 2012-13. If we can all agree on that we can all have a great hockey conversation. How about a playoff contender? Right now I'll settle for that.
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 How about a playoff contender? Right now I'll settle for that. There is work to be done to get to the playoffs. We'll have to see what today brings and hope July 1st is very kind to Sabre fans.
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