sabres13 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Posted June 19, 2012 I think what's disappointing about the upcoming draft is Darcy's reluctance to go after the "Russians" - who are really American - for fear of defection to the KHL. I'd love to see them move into the top 5 but it seems that he's more interested in trading for current players. I know this is shocking but I kinda agree with DR statements on Russian draft picks this year. If the NHL didn't have the big possibility of a CBA cluster f$&@ on its hands this year the Russians like grienko and gally and yakupov are a no brainer; but on the other hand if the NHL has a lockout the KHL system is very inticing to these young players. Think of it this way if the KHL is promising these kids instant money, roster spots, and fame where the NHL is telling them "hey work hard, play smart, and wait your turn and you will be rewarded" it's pretty easy to have doubts about these kids loyalites to their NHL clubs. Aka party boy- Radulov Lastly, I rather have a current player like Jordan Staal or Paul Stastny then a rookie any day. Also on a side note for my first post this discussion got a lot of traction and interesting replys.
sjb012 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 Ennis, Foligno and Hodgson are the only players who I don't think should be moved. Move anyone else! Especially if it brings us our #1 center. #1 center (X), Ennis 2nd line center and Hodgson 3rd line center...love that as a top 3.
Bullwinkle III Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 I know this is shocking but I kinda agree with DR statements on Russian draft picks this year. If the NHL didn't have the big possibility of a CBA cluster f$&@ on its hands this year the Russians like grienko and gally and yakupov are a no brainer; but on the other hand if the NHL has a lockout the KHL system is very inticing to these young players. Think of it this way if the KHL is promising these kids instant money, roster spots, and fame where the NHL is telling them "hey work hard, play smart, and wait your turn and you will be rewarded" it's pretty easy to have doubts about these kids loyalites to their NHL clubs. Aka party boy- Radulov Lastly, I rather have a current player like Jordan Staal or Paul Stastny then a rookie any day. Also on a side note for my first post this discussion got a lot of traction and interesting replys. Well, between 2000 and 2005, he drafted seven Russians, including 15th overall pick Artem Kryukov, and none of them have played a single game in the NHL. He hasn't drafted one since. And he hasn't really showed interest in Europeans either. He's only picked one European (Joel Armia) since 2006, when he picked Persson and Enroth. Whether that's a product of "expense efficient" scouting methods or perceived/legitimate risk of losing prospects to the KHL is up to the reader. There is a ton of money in the KHL; I'd rather other teams take risks, and us bet on safer prospects. If my math is right: North American-born players Regier selected in the first four rounds from 1997-2010: 20 of 30 have played in the NHL. European-born players Regier selected in the first four rounds from 1997-2010: 6 of 15 have played in the NHL. There's a lot of ifs/ands/buts with analyzing draft outcomes, I know. But these guys aren't your typical Russians. Gally was born in Milwakee and even went to the trouble of wearing a Canadian jersey to the NHL combine, an obvious message that he wants to play in the NHL. Grigorenko is more of a risk, but has been playing in Canadian leagues for two years and speaks English quite well. I think these are Russians you can count on (and the Sabres really need), lockout or no lockout.
spndnchz Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 But these guys aren't your typical Russians. Gally was born in Milwakee and even went to the trouble of wearing a Canadian jersey to the NHL combine, an obvious message that he wants to play in the NHL. Grigorenko is more of a risk, but has been playing in Canadian leagues for two years and speaks English quite well. I think these are Russians you can count on (and the Sabres really need), lockout or no lockout. But they are Russians. They have the ability to be signed in KHL. If they don't get to play enough to THEIR liking in the NHL or don't get the money they think they're worth, they're gone.
TrueBlueGED Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 But these guys aren't your typical Russians. Gally was born in Milwakee and even went to the trouble of wearing a Canadian jersey to the NHL combine, an obvious message that he wants to play in the NHL. Grigorenko is more of a risk, but has been playing in Canadian leagues for two years and speaks English quite well. I think these are Russians you can count on (and the Sabres really need), lockout or no lockout. Risk or no risk, if you can get arguably the most talented player in the draft with true star potential at the back of the top 10, don't you almost have to take that risk? Grigorenko may end up busting due to work ethic, or may flee to the KHL if the NHL is too harsh on him or whatever....but true star-caliber talent at 9 or 10? If he slides that much, I'd love for the Sabres to jump up a few spots to secure him (I don't think there's any way he gets past Washington at 11). The potential reward is simply too great to pass up in my opinion.
shrader Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 But they are Russians. They have the ability to be signed in KHL. If they don't get to play enough to THEIR liking in the NHL or don't get the money they think they're worth, they're gone. You do have to wonder if that extra money would be worth the risk of riding in one of those planes though. It's either that or spend one extra year in juniors if the league does shut down. I hate even making the plane comment, but that among other things has to be a major concern about heading back over there.
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 Risk or no risk, if you can get arguably the most talented player in the draft with true star potential at the back of the top 10, don't you almost have to take that risk? Grigorenko may end up busting due to work ethic, or may flee to the KHL if the NHL is too harsh on him or whatever....but true star-caliber talent at 9 or 10? If he slides that much, I'd love for the Sabres to jump up a few spots to secure him (I don't think there's any way he gets past Washington at 11). The potential reward is simply too great to pass up in my opinion. TSN's final draft rankings have Grigorenko at #12. http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9825 With Radek Faksa going in the spot ahead of him. If this ranking ends up being semi accurate it makes sense that the Sabres are not looking to move up in the draft, other than leapfrog Washington to get to Faksa. So, with Grigorenko falling conceivably to the #12 pick I have to think there are some persistent questions about him, I remember just a few months ago he was described as having #1 pick talent.
Bullwinkle III Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 As Draft Day is the most special day of the year to me, I have compiled every mock draft I could find into a spreadsheet. Of course there is diversity in position, but the top players look like this: 1. Yakupov 13 nr. 1 2 nr. 2 range 1-2 2. Murray 2 nr. 1 9 nr. 2 8 nr. 4 range 1-6 3. Forsberg 5 nr. 2 8 nr. 3 range 2-7 4. Grigorenko 2 nr. 2 8 nr. 3 range 2-12 5. Galchenyuk 2 nr. 2 1 nr. 3 1 nr. 4 11 nr. 5 range 2-5 6. Dumba 4 nr. 4 9 nr. 6 range 4-11 After that it becomes more mixed with Faksa, Trouba, Reilley, and Reinhart following up. So when Devine says that there is no clear consensus on the top players, I'd have to disagree. Clearly these six are the cream of the crop.
TrueBlueGED Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 TSN's final draft rankings have Grigorenko at #12. http://www.tsn.ca/dr...eature/?id=9825 With Radek Faksa going in the spot ahead of him. If this ranking ends up being semi accurate it makes sense that the Sabres are not looking to move up in the draft, other than leapfrog Washington to get to Faksa. So, with Grigorenko falling conceivably to the #12 pick I have to think there are some persistent questions about him, I remember just a few months ago he was described as having #1 pick talent. There's absolutely risk with Grigorenko, and more than just trivial risk. But how else are the Sabres going to get elite-level talent? Trade away half the roster or all of Rochester? Getting #1 pick talent at #12 is a risk I take every single time. As Draft Day is the most special day of the year to me, I have compiled every mock draft I could find into a spreadsheet. Of course there is diversity in position, but the top players look like this: 1. Yakupov 13 nr. 1 2 nr. 2 range 1-2 2. Murray 2 nr. 1 9 nr. 2 8 nr. 4 range 1-6 3. Forsberg 5 nr. 2 8 nr. 3 range 2-7 4. Grigorenko 2 nr. 2 8 nr. 3 range 2-12 5. Galchenyuk 2 nr. 2 1 nr. 3 1 nr. 4 11 nr. 5 range 2-5 6. Dumba 4 nr. 4 9 nr. 6 range 4-11 After that it becomes more mixed with Faksa, Trouba, Reilley, and Reinhart following up. So when Devine says that there is no clear consensus on the top players, I'd have to disagree. Clearly these six are the cream of the crop. I think he meant that there's no real consensus order to them. I'd even go as far as to say the top 10 players are probably pretty well set....but different teams will have them ranked in vastly different orders. That was my reading of it anyway, and your listed ranges would seem to be consistent with that mindset.
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 There's absolutely risk with Grigorenko, and more than just trivial risk. But how else are the Sabres going to get elite-level talent? Trade away half the roster or all of Rochester? Getting #1 pick talent at #12 is a risk I take every single time. Just to be clear. If Grigorenko is available when the Sabres pick I will be most pleased. I was surprised to see him projected in the 12th spot and I still seriously doubt he'd fall to us like that. If he does, it is of course a shot you have to take. The reason why I brought it up was because with rankings like these coming in I can understand why the Sabres seemingly are not willing to pay the price to move very high up in the draft.
Bullwinkle III Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 Just to be clear. If Grigorenko is available when the Sabres pick I will be most pleased. I was surprised to see him projected in the 12th spot and I still seriously doubt he'd fall to us like that. If he does, it is of course a shot you have to take. The reason why I brought it up was because with rankings like these coming in I can understand why the Sabres seemingly are not willing to pay the price to move very high up in the draft. Of the 15 different mock drafts I have discovered, only 2 put him at nr. 12. As you can see above, most have him at nr. 3.
deluca67 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 you make it sound like this team couldn't get out fo its own way and shouldn't even be in the NHL. It makes you sound like a spoiled child whos not getting his way. "If I can't have that Toy, then i don't want any of them!" "If the Sabres don't make the playoffs, they are the worst team in the league and shouldn't even be in the NHL!" You would think that the Sabres situation is similar to the Leafs, or Colombus, or Edmonton, or The Islanders............ Although I can guarantee that you could turn around and give reasons why the fans of those teams should feel much better about their team then the Sabres Fans I always love the "at least they aren't the worst team in the league" defense. :doh:
Drunkard Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 In my opinion nobody is off the table for the right price but the guys I'd probably price too high for anyone to bite would be Foligno, Ennis, Myers After that, I'd put the following guys into a tier 2 that are probably priced a little too high but lower than the first guys Miller, Hodgson, Ehrhoff, McNabb, Regehr Guys I wouldn't be looking to move but could be swayed without too much hestitation Vanek, Pominville, Sekera Then there's guys like Kaleta, Tropp, Weber, and Enroth that I wouldn't actively shop but the rest would definitely be on the table without any hesitation.
Randall Flagg Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 In my opinion nobody is off the table for the right price but the guys I'd probably price too high for anyone to bite would be Foligno, Ennis, Myers After that, I'd put the following guys into a tier 2 that are probably priced a little too high but lower than the first guys Miller, Hodgson, Ehrhoff, McNabb, Regehr Guys I wouldn't be looking to move but could be swayed without too much hestitation Vanek, Pominville, Sekera Then there's guys like Kaleta, Tropp, Weber, and Enroth that I wouldn't actively shop but the rest would definitely be on the table without any hesitation. Why is nobody off the table? His post count is manageable, and he could get the return we desperately need.
deluca67 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 Why is nobody off the table? His post count is manageable, and he could get the return we desperately need. The board can't afford to lose his grit. ;)
spndnchz Posted June 19, 2012 Report Posted June 19, 2012 The board can't afford to lose his grit. ;) He's a bit weak in the corners.
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 The board can't afford to lose his grit. ;) We'll just need the young guys like qwksndmonster and myself to step up to the plate and fill the void.
Who Else? Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 There isn't a player on this team I wouldn't trade for a #1 center. I'd even be open to anyone in Buffalo for Stasny or Staal (if the Sabres could sign him to a multi year contract.) There is no forward on this team better, and the Defence is pretty deep as long as only one is being subtracted. As for Miller, yes he can be good but not even close to what the team could add with the subtraction of his salary.
drnkirishone Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 He's a bit weak in the corners. and there was that pic of him grabbing Roys crouch you cant let that kinda camaraderie just leave
TrueBlueGED Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 There isn't a player on this team I wouldn't trade for a #1 center. I'd even be open to anyone in Buffalo for Stasny or Staal (if the Sabres could sign him to a multi year contract.) There is no forward on this team better, and the Defence is pretty deep as long as only one is being subtracted. As for Miller, yes he can be good but not even close to what the team could add with the subtraction of his salary. Stastny and Staal are #1 centers? When did this happen?
TheChimp Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 Ennis, Foligno, Stafford, Pominville and Ehrhoff I see as being the only guys Darcy would be a total and complete moron to lose.
shrader Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 We'll just need the young guys like qwksndmonster and myself to step up to the plate and fill the void. We're doomed!
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2012 Report Posted June 20, 2012 We're doomed! Well now, it's not like we have to replace chz or weave or other HOF posters... It's just nobody ;)
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