NHL 2012 Playoffs Thread

[Eleven]

And still we all loved Peca back in the day...but I don't think we knew then what we know now, and certainly, it was before the league devolved into anarchy.

 

 

Anyway, Seattle (or Vegas or wherever it's moving to) v. Chicago just got interesting. But my head and eyelids are too heavy for any more.

[TrueBlueGED]

Rather than quoting everything, I'm just going to say I agree with everybody who said they want head shots out of the game.

 

And an argument along the lines of "it's always been this way" is a poor one in my opinion. The game has evolved, society has evolved, we know way more about the long-term consequences of concussions. I fundamentally don't understand championing something that takes the stars out of the game. Are unnecessary hits really more important than the skill of the game? Put another way, I think the game loses a lot more when a player like Hossa or Sedin goes down for a long period of time than it does if Raffi Torres is removed from the game. I don't want to get rid of hitting, but I'm tired of seeing great players get taken out by goons and it going, for all intents and purposes, completely unpunished and undeterred in the future.

 

If all somebody cares about is violence and physical brutality...there's sports designed specifically around those things.

[Bmwolf21]

I hate the "you're trying to take hitting out of the game" defense. No one wants that. What they need to do is bring the most basic amount of respect back into the game. Guys like Raffi Torres don't give a damn about anyone else out there. I for one don't want to watch a game where guys are trying to cripple each other. All that keeps popping into my head is the whole "are you not entertained" speech from Gladiator. That's exactly what this is turning into.

 

Can't disagree with anything you wrote.

[darksabre]

Yeah, you're right. I'm wrong.

 

Now now, I'm not telling you you're wrong. There are little things you can do to make gear safer. But the gear is supposed to protect you from being injured during the normal play of the game. When you start using the gear as a substitute for discipline then something has gone terribly wrong. The gear should protect you from accidents, not injuries that are avoided simply through good sportsmanship.

 

One thing I would like to see the NHL advocate is mandatory mouth guards and the use of a chinstrap for its intended purpose.

[SwampD]

I agree and disagree with everything in this thread, wait, what? Good convo. While I still don't think Torres' hit was all that bad, it did warrent a penalty at the very least.

 

I often wonder about over-expansion being the cause of this [apparent?] lack of respect. There are still the same number of upper echelon players, but with the added teams, is there a larger pool of players on the fringe that are trying to make it any way possible?

[X. Benedict]

I agree and disagree with everything in this thread, wait, what? Good convo. While I still don't think Torres' hit was all that bad, it did warrent a penalty at the very least.

 

I often wonder about over-expansion being the cause of this [apparent?] lack of respect. There are still the same number of upper echelon players, but with the added teams, is there a larger pool of players on the fringe that are trying to make it any way possible?

 

That looked like a dirty, dirty hit from the first look to me - it was late, it was high to the head, and he jumped into it.

That hit sucked.

 

Players could injure other players' brains every game like that if they wanted to. But they don't.

[darksabre]

Kyle Chipchura with a playoff beard looks like Rick Grimes from the Walking Dead.

 

Yotes win. Much to my dismay. I definitely hate them right now.

[TrueBlueGED]

I agree and disagree with everything in this thread, wait, what? Good convo. While I still don't think Torres' hit was all that bad, it did warrent a penalty at the very least.

 

I often wonder about over-expansion being the cause of this [apparent?] lack of respect. There are still the same number of upper echelon players, but with the added teams, is there a larger pool of players on the fringe that are trying to make it any way possible?

 

I don't think having more fringe players helps anything, that's for sure. But think about the players who have been delivering the worst hits recently: Carkner, Hagelin, Neal (James), Asham, Weber, Torres, Keith. Just as many stars are doing it as marginal players are.

 

Also, that goal Crawford let in was pathetic. I'm sure this subject will be revisited ad nausium for the foreseeable future, but I'll take my stud goaltender over an average guy any and every time.

[Iron Crotch]

Anyone notice that the three suspended Penguins all play right wing? Oof.

[darksabre]

 

 

I don't think having more fringe players helps anything, that's for sure. But think about the players who have been delivering the worst hits recently: Carkner, Hagelin, Neal (James), Asham, Weber, Torres, Keith. Just as many stars are doing it as marginal players are.

 

Also, that goal Crawford let in was pathetic. I'm sure this subject will be revisited ad nausium for the foreseeable future, but I'll take my stud goaltender over an average guy any and every time.

 

Crawford isn't too average though. But it makes you wonder if keeping Niemi would have been smarter. Hindsight though.

[Andrew Amerk]

Torres has a role to play, and he played it.

 

Hawks lose Hossa, Yotes lose Torres.

 

Who is the winner of that outcome?

[RazielSabre]

Torres has a role to play, and he played it.

 

Hawks lose Hossa, Yotes lose Torres.

 

Who is the winner of that outcome?

Hawks, Torres was a beast for us.

[Weave]

Torres has a role to play, and he played it.

 

Hawks lose Hossa, Yotes lose Torres.

 

Who is the winner of that outcome?

 

And this right here is the worst part about that hit at the end of the day. Even if the league throws the book at Torres, who wouldn't take that trade off?

[RazielSabre]

And this right here is the worst part about that hit at the end of the day. Even if the league throws the book at Torres, who wouldn't take that trade off?

 

If they don't that'll spell the end of the player safety division, players seem to know they can get away with murder, or at least attempted murder. Thats a different subject though.

[SwampD]

That looked like a dirty, dirty hit from the first look to me - it was late, it was high to the head, and he jumped into it. That hit sucked. Players could injure other players' brains every game like that if they wanted to. But they don't.

That hit was not late.

 

On another note, Does anyone else think that Shanahan made a HUGE mistake by actually saying out loud that "if Alfie plays the suspension would be reduced"? Doesn't that open a big, ugly can of worms? I think teams and players will act hurt to get guys suspended (like the Horton hit last playoffs, how can you fly to Vancouver the day after you supposedly got a 4 game worthy concussion).

 

I really think he we are going to regret him saying that.

[carpandean]

Serious defensive break-down by Detroit. 3 defenders went with Marty Erat leaving two Preds standing alone in front of the net. Easy goal. 2-1 Preds.

 

Holy pee-wee hockey defense Batman ...

 

[Taro T]

I agree and disagree with everything in this thread, wait, what? Good convo. While I still don't think Torres' hit was all that bad, it did warrent a penalty at the very least.

 

I often wonder about over-expansion being the cause of this [apparent?] lack of respect. There are still the same number of upper echelon players, but with the added teams, is there a larger pool of players on the fringe that are trying to make it any way possible?

It's not due to 'over-expansion.' The Nords & Habs and the No Stars and Hawks would routinely kick the snot out of each other when they met back in the '80's. There also were a lot more stick swinging incidents back then. There definitely were enough hockey players through Canada to handle the initial expansion to 12. The Western European influx of the '70's couldn't fill all the extra pro slots of an expansion to 30 teams in the '70's, but it was enough to cover 21 in the '80's. The expansion back to 30 coincided with the addition of the players that had been playing behind the steel curtain. Expansion doesn't dilute the talent when there is a corresponding large increase in the available talent pool.

 

If you cut down on the number of teams, the bar for what a 'fringe player' is simply gets raised and likely guys have even shorter careers as it would be even tougher for guys to stay in the league into their 30's as the speed of the game increases along with the skill level. I don't want to try to make the case, but there could be a case made that if the thuggery in the league is due to marginal players trying to make a name for themselves (and I believe it's way more complex than that as guys like Duncan Keith and Shea Weber are in no way shape or form fringe players nor are they known for a preponderance of thuggery) then as careers get even shorter in a contracted league the thuggery would increase. (Again, not saying I necessarily believe that WILL be the case if the league were to contract, just playing devil's advocate.)

 

 

If they don't that'll spell the end of the player safety division, players seem to know they can get away with murder, or at least attempted murder. Thats a different subject though.

Think Shanny's having second thoughts about telling Weber to just put a couple of bucks in the swear jar and we'd call it good when he leaves his office? That could just be coincidence that Shanny said that hit wasn't really that big of a deal and the rest of the league immediately decided that it's the '70's again, but I'd still expect he'd like to reconsider that call.

[spndnchz]

That hit was not late.

 

On another note, Does anyone else think that Shanahan made a HUGE mistake by actually saying out loud that "if Alfie plays the suspension would be reduced"? Doesn't that open a big, ugly can of worms? I think teams and players will act hurt to get guys suspended (like the Horton hit last playoffs, how can you fly to Vancouver the day after you supposedly got a 4 game worthy concussion).

 

I really think he we are going to regret him saying that.

 

Thing is, he never said that. Some intern at MSG tweeted it, then retracted it. The only thing the Rangers could do would be to appeal the decision if Alfie came back.

[SwampD]

Thing is, he never said that. Some intern at MSG tweeted it, then retracted it. The only thing the Rangers could do would be to appeal the decision if Alfie came back.

thnx. Didn't know that.

[RazielSabre]

 

Think Shanny's having second thoughts about telling Weber to just put a couple of bucks in the swear jar and we'd call it good when he leaves his office? That could just be coincidence that Shanny said that hit wasn't really that big of a deal and the rest of the league immediately decided that it's the '70's again, but I'd still expect he'd like to reconsider that call.

I agree, out of interest is that allowed? I mean to reconsider a call? I imagine he could make it clear he regrets it but I know that won't happen.

[spndnchz]

Thanks to John

 

At least Shanaban can indirectly say he f'd up the Miller hit.

[shrader]

And this right here is the worst part about that hit at the end of the day. Even if the league throws the book at Torres, who wouldn't take that trade off?

 

Hossa

[Taro T]

I agree, out of interest is that allowed? I mean to reconsider a call? I imagine he could make it clear he regrets it but I know that won't happen.

No, I don't believe there is any way a system could be set up where the league comes back and says 'guys, we didn't expect everyone to view this last hearing as an excuse to start pulling hair, Shea, you're great, I luv ya, but Weber - you're fired.' Shanny broke it, now he gets to hold a lot more hearings to try to fix it. Moral of the story: when you try to take the easy way out (not suspending Weber for at least 1 game because he didn't want to be that guy that takes a key piece out of a team's playoff lineup, especially one that doesn't have much of a playoff history and where they are trying to get the game to take root) you end up creating a lot more work and headaches for yourself.

 

The only way I could see him attempting to fix this is to state publicly before the 2nd round begins that stuff is getting out of hand and suspensions this round will be SEVERE. ESPN would have a field day with that, even if Shanny backs up the talk w/ the walk, so don't expect it anytime soon.

[Punch]

Thing is, he never said that. Some intern at MSG tweeted it, then retracted it. The only thing the Rangers could do would be to appeal the decision if Alfie came back.

 

It's amazing how incorrect information gets disseminated so quickly. I've heard repeatedly on WGR and other sources that Shanahan said that in his interview on WFAN yet after a google search, not one newspaper featuring quotes from that interview indicates Shanny said anything remotely close.

 

Although, he did specifically say the suspensions were based at least partially on whether or not a player was injured/concussed. It's easy to see how that could get interpreted/twisted that way.

[Eleven]

That hit was not late. On another note, Does anyone else think that Shanahan made a HUGE mistake by actually saying out loud that "if Alfie plays the suspension would be reduced"? Doesn't that open a big, ugly can of worms? I think teams and players will act hurt to get guys suspended (like the Horton hit last playoffs, how can you fly to Vancouver the day after you supposedly got a 4 game worthy concussion). I really think he we are going to regret him saying that.

 

Yes. I think it's a huge problem.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the league is going to want Shanahan in this role next year.

 

And hopefully the NHLPA comes to its senses and realizes that it needs to take a more active role in policing its members.